Section 4AA

[stateofhawkey]

...just got a bit more complicated last night, once again. I didn't have Stillwater beating White Bear 5-0 on my 2024 bingo card, especially not after the Bears won 5-3 the first time around. I would say it's a surprising result, but not shocking.

In terms of the Section, overall it's pretty down this year, but I think HM would HAVE to be the #1 seed right now, and WBL the 2 because of their tie with HM and a better record than Stillwater by far. Gentry is Gentry and will probably be a difficult team to face in Sections, again, just like last year, but are impossible to place because of their wacky schedule.

And everyone else brings up the rear.

[BlueLineSpecial]

Thoughts on 4AA seeding:

Hill has the strongest Strength of Schedule (toughest opponents: EP, Hermantown, Wayzata, Andover, Tonka, Benilde, Edina twice, STA twice, MG).

Stillwater has the 2nd strongest SOS (toughest opponents: Tonka, MG, Benilde, Wayzata, EP, STA, Rogers among others).

WBL probably has the least difficult schedule of the three (toughest opponents: Rosemount, Hermantown, Rogers, EP)

Head-to-head so far

Hill: 0-0-1 (Hill plays Stillwater in a couple of weeks)
WBL: 1-1-1
Stillwater: 1-1

If you put the weight of section seeding on SOS and head-to-head, Hill is the #1 seed right now - subject to the Stillwater tilt. If Hill wins that game, they will likely be the #1 seed come sections. Much like the last couple of years, Hill's record due to their schedule may very well not look as good.

That all said, the way Hill is playing is not very good. And this year, for whatever reason, doesn't have that usual feeling of they're working out the kinks so look-out come March. They have STA, Stillwater, Benilde, Edina, Edina again, STA again, and Maple Grove still on the docket. They could very well lose all of those games, and finish with a record of 12-11-2. WBL may have 5-7 more wins than Hill at the end of the year and if so, there could be disagreements on where to seed teams, even with SOS considerations.

In other words, who knows!

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

I'm surprised that White Bear's schedule is as light as it is, year after year. Maybe the new coach will beef it up a bit.

[BlueLineSpecial]

I'm surprised that White Bear's schedule is as light as it is, year after year. Maybe the new coach will beef it up a bit.

The bears play a Suburban East-heavy schedule. They play every other team in their conference (8 of them) twice - which is 16 of 25 possible games or 2/3 of their available schedule. In many years, that doesn't necessarily make for great competition.

Hill used to do the same, and it was a tedious schedule with a lot of lopsided games. Which I'm sure weren't always all that rewarding for either team.

I assume you are obligated to play every team in your conference at least once per year? Aside from fierce rivalries I wouldn't go out of my way to schedule two games a year against the same teams.

[Sparlimb]

Hill just lost to two rivers. Hard to say, but any of HM, Gentry, Stillwater or WBL can win it. Feels like its a WBL year though.

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

I'm surprised that White Bear's schedule is as light as it is, year after year. Maybe the new coach will beef it up a bit.

The bears play a Suburban East-heavy schedule. They play every other team in their conference (8 of them) twice - which is 16 of 25 possible games or 2/3 of their available schedule. In many years, that doesn't necessarily make for great competition.

Hill used to do the same, and it was a tedious schedule with a lot of lopsided games. Which I'm sure weren't always all that rewarding for either team.

I assume you are obligated to play every team in your conference at least once per year? Aside from fierce rivalries I wouldn't go out of my way to schedule two games a year against the same teams.

You're talking about the what, I'm curious about the why. What they do is play every conference team twice. Why do they do that, especially when it' a large conference? It's not rocket science, play the better teams twice, or even three times, and play the lesser teams once. Even the better conference teams are aren't all that great, compared to the non-conference opponents they could be playing.

[BlueLineSpecial]

I'm not smart enough to know the why. I do know that if 2/3 of your schedule is against average-ish conference teams every year, it's gonna be hard to fill out a really difficult schedule overall, as you're only left with a handful of games to do something with.

If I recall correctly, too - WBL doesn't play in any holiday tournaments. Those games are opportunities to beef up the schedule with some tough competition, and for whatever reason, I can't recall the last time the Bears played in a holiday tourney.

[Sparlimb]

I'm not smart enough to know the why. I do know that if 2/3 of your schedule is against average-ish conference teams every year, it's gonna be hard to fill out a really difficult schedule overall, as you're only left with a handful of games to do something with.

If I recall correctly, too - WBL doesn't play in any holiday tournaments. Those games are opportunities to beef up the schedule with some tough competition, and for whatever reason, I can't recall the last time the Bears played in a holiday tourney.

WBL used to play in the Schwann's tourney with HM at Xmas time. Maybe the last year or two they quit and didn't do a tournament, which doesn't make sense to me, because the kids better get used to playing 3 days in a row at some point. Going way back when HM was in their conference, it was a great hockey conference. But really other than Stillwater, there hasn't been much competition their for WBL at all. Mahtomedi and STA have been better that Stillwater many of those years.

With HM still unable to score and not quite as strong in net as they have been, its certainly a year for someone else to go to St. Paul. The issue is those teams have as many questions at this point as Hill does.

[BlueLineSpecial]

I'm not smart enough to know the why. I do know that if 2/3 of your schedule is against average-ish conference teams every year, it's gonna be hard to fill out a really difficult schedule overall, as you're only left with a handful of games to do something with.

If I recall correctly, too - WBL doesn't play in any holiday tournaments. Those games are opportunities to beef up the schedule with some tough competition, and for whatever reason, I can't recall the last time the Bears played in a holiday tourney.

WBL used to play in the Schwann's tourney with HM at Xmas time. Maybe the last year or two they quit and didn't do a tournament, which doesn't make sense to me, because the kids better get used to playing 3 days in a row at some point. Going way back when HM was in their conference, it was a great hockey conference. But really other than Stillwater, there hasn't been much competition their for WBL at all. Mahtomedi and STA have been better that Stillwater many of those years.

With HM still unable to score and not quite as strong in net as they have been, its certainly a year for someone else to go to St. Paul. The issue is those teams have as many questions at this point as Hill does.

So, according to the Hub, the Bears last played in a holiday tournament (looks like the Schwann's Cup) during the 2010-2011 season.

I'm not sure what is going on with Hill this year. I thought the defense was going to be absolutely stacked, and they just haven't been very good. Goaltending, as you point out, seems down a bit. And as has been a theme for a while now, the Pios haven't had that high-end scoring line to bail you out. Still time to turn it around I suppose. But at some point in the season (and the halfway point is as good a place as any for sample size) you are what you are. At this point they need to get back to fundamentals, try and stop the bleeding, and prepare for section play that may not have many gimme's.

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

At this point, I'd say seeding doesn't matter. The top 4 will each need to play two good games to win the section. Baring fairly unlikely significant changes in the coming weeks, it's hard to see how anyone could say they got shafted on seedings.

[SEC Scotty]

At this point, I'd say seeding doesn't matter. The top 4 will each need to play two good games to win the section. Baring fairly unlikely significant changes in the coming weeks, it's hard to see how anyone could say they got shafted on seedings.

I’ll put my money on Hill Murray. Home ice advantage and and homer officiating will do it this year.

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

At this point, I'd say seeding doesn't matter. The top 4 will each need to play two good games to win the section. Baring fairly unlikely significant changes in the coming weeks, it's hard to see how anyone could say they got shafted on seedings.

I’ll put my money on Hill Murray. Home ice advantage and and homer officiating will do it this year.

Dang! You're on to us!

You're 100% correct. The whole state loves Hill, from border to border. It's pathetic the way Hill's opponents get roundly booed at the X every year. The zebras pick up on that, and they act accordingly. And that home ice advantage! Why those poor kids from WB and Stillwater have never even set foot in Aldrich, much less skated there. Without Google Maps, they wouldn't even be able to find it. I heard tell that this year, tickets will only be sold at Hill, not at the arena or on line even.

[BP]

I'm surprised that White Bear's schedule is as light as it is, year after year. Maybe the new coach will beef it up a bit.

The bears play a Suburban East-heavy schedule. They play every other team in their conference (8 of them) twice - which is 16 of 25 possible games or 2/3 of their available schedule. In many years, that doesn't necessarily make for great competition.

Hill used to do the same, and it was a tedious schedule with a lot of lopsided games. Which I'm sure weren't always all that rewarding for either team.

I assume you are obligated to play every team in your conference at least once per year? Aside from fierce rivalries I wouldn't go out of my way to schedule two games a year against the same teams.

You're talking about the what, I'm curious about the why. What they do is play every conference team twice. Why do they do that, especially when it' a large conference? It's not rocket science, play the better teams twice, or even three times, and play the lesser teams once. Even the better conference teams are aren't all that great, compared to the non-conference opponents they could be playing.

The WHY is because the conference makes everyone play each other twice. They don't have a bylaw stating they can play once for a 4 point game like some conferences do.

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

The bears play a Suburban East-heavy schedule. They play every other team in their conference (8 of them) twice - which is 16 of 25 possible games or 2/3 of their available schedule. In many years, that doesn't necessarily make for great competition.

Hill used to do the same, and it was a tedious schedule with a lot of lopsided games. Which I'm sure weren't always all that rewarding for either team.

I assume you are obligated to play every team in your conference at least once per year? Aside from fierce rivalries I wouldn't go out of my way to schedule two games a year against the same teams.

You're talking about the what, I'm curious about the why. What they do is play every conference team twice. Why do they do that, especially when it' a large conference? It's not rocket science, play the better teams twice, or even three times, and play the lesser teams once. Even the better conference teams are aren't all that great, compared to the non-conference opponents they could be playing.

The WHY is because the conference makes everyone play each other twice. They don't have a bylaw stating they can play once for a 4 point game like some conferences do.

By-laws can be changed.

[BlueLineSpecial]

You're talking about the what, I'm curious about the why. What they do is play every conference team twice. Why do they do that, especially when it' a large conference? It's not rocket science, play the better teams twice, or even three times, and play the lesser teams once. Even the better conference teams are aren't all that great, compared to the non-conference opponents they could be playing.

The WHY is because the conference makes everyone play each other twice. They don't have a bylaw stating they can play once for a 4 point game like some conferences do.

By-laws can be changed.

I attempted to go to the Suburban East conference website, to see if I could look up particular details. This might be the single worst website I've ever seen in my entire life

https://www.suburbaneast.org/g5-bin/cli ... G5genie=19

SPORTS! (this will make sense if you go to the site)

[BP]

You're talking about the what, I'm curious about the why. What they do is play every conference team twice. Why do they do that, especially when it' a large conference? It's not rocket science, play the better teams twice, or even three times, and play the lesser teams once. Even the better conference teams are aren't all that great, compared to the non-conference opponents they could be playing.

The WHY is because the conference makes everyone play each other twice. They don't have a bylaw stating they can play once for a 4 point game like some conferences do.

t

Correct - but the conference coaches vote on it and elect to do 2 games.

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

It reminds me of an old joke:

How many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb? Just one, but the light has to want to change.

[BlueLineSpecial]

Big win for the Pioneers tonight, 5-2 over St Thomas. This was an important game for Hill to stop the bleeding, and is their best win of the season. I was wondering how they would bounce back from the loss to Two Rivers, and at least for one game they answered the call. We'll see if they can string together a few more in a row.

Couple of additional thoughts.....

Hill hangs 5 on the Cadets, the most they've given up in a game this season, and stop STA's 7 game win streak (8 game unbeaten streak). One game doesn't make a season, but the Pios needed this one. If for nothing else to build some confidence. STA was giving up on average about a goal and a half per game during their win streak, so it's nice to see Hill get some goals against a stingy D.

[Sparlimb]

Big win for the Pioneers tonight, 5-2 over St Thomas. This was an important game for Hill to stop the bleeding, and is their best win of the season. I was wondering how they would bounce back from the loss to Two Rivers, and at least for one game they answered the call. We'll see if they can string together a few more in a row.

Couple of additional thoughts.....

Hill hangs 5 on the Cadets, the most they've given up in a game this season, and stop STA's 7 game win streak (8 game unbeaten streak). One game doesn't make a season, but the Pios needed this one. If for nothing else to build some confidence. STA was giving up on average about a goal and a half per game during their win streak, so it's nice to see Hill get some goals against a stingy D.

I didn't watch much of it, but the announcer said there were at least 2 maybe 3 HM kids out tonight. Maybe the shifted lines gave them a boost. Agreed, it was a much needed win. We know they have the talent to compete with just about anyone, but haven't shown it as much lately.

[WarmUpTheBus]

Big win for the Pioneers tonight, 5-2 over St Thomas. This was an important game for Hill to stop the bleeding, and is their best win of the season. I was wondering how they would bounce back from the loss to Two Rivers, and at least for one game they answered the call. We'll see if they can string together a few more in a row.

Couple of additional thoughts.....

Hill hangs 5 on the Cadets, the most they've given up in a game this season, and stop STA's 7 game win streak (8 game unbeaten streak). One game doesn't make a season, but the Pios needed this one. If for nothing else to build some confidence. STA was giving up on average about a goal and a half per game during their win streak, so it's nice to see Hill get some goals against a stingy D.

I didn't watch much of it, but the announcer said there were at least 2 maybe 3 HM kids out tonight. Maybe the shifted lines gave them a boost. Agreed, it was a much needed win. We know they have the talent to compete with just about anyone, but haven't shown it as much lately.

4 out of 5 Hill goals were scored by defensemen and Hill was well prepared to attack the Cadet’s trap. Good job of coaching by a great coach.

[tourneytickssince59]

Rumor has it that the coaches only comment after the 2 Rivers loss was "tryouts start Monday".

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

I was surprised STA was kept to 2 goals. It looks like a dangerous offense.

Deux Rivières is enjoying the catbird seat of the Tradition Rich Metro East. The very prescient schedulers of the TRME had the foresight to make the STA/ Deux Rivieres contest the last game of the season.

[BlueLineSpecial]

I was surprised STA was kept to 2 goals. It looks like a dangerous offense.

Deux Rivières is enjoying the catbird seat of the Tradition Rich Metro East. The very prescient schedulers of the TRME had the foresight to make the STA/ Deux Rivieres contest the last game of the season.

I think one of a couple things happen after a loss like that. The team gets fired up, focused, and goes on a run. Or it continues a downward spiral that derails the season.

....Or it means absolutely nothing. Losses happen, and they outshot Two Rivers like 60-15. I'm somewhere in between it means nothing and it's fired Hill up. I'm not convinced they turn the season around in a dramatic way, but I've also learned not to count out a Lechner team with talent and depth.

The way things are going - and the way sections are lined up - there are probably going to be 2 locked-in top seeds at State and then who knows. Avoiding the Tonka/Chanhassen and Wayzata/Edina seeds on Thursday will be crucial, and anyone can beat anyone beyond that. Any team that makes it to State and avoids playing the 1 and 2 seeds will have a 50/50 chance of making it to Friday night. Thats not bad!

Stay warm and safe out there tonight

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

It's not just the loss to 2 Rivers, it came on the heels running time disaster at Pagel. When was the last time Hill was put on RT? Was the 10-1 loss to Roseville at the holiday tournament in in 02-03? (As always, I'm too lazy to dig too far into it.) Hill is not the only team to be put on RT by Tonka this season, but it's a big embarrassment. Even a middling Mahtomedi put 2 on the Skippers just after that.

Hill put Edina on RT in January in 2014.(Edina scored a late 5-3 PP goal to close it to 6-1). After the game, at Aldrich, Pat Regan talked to his old team mate Curt Giles outside the locker room. An assistant coach approached Giles and told him (paraphrasing) "We got the time." "Bag skate?" Regan asked Giles. Affirmative. WIth 3 sheets at Braemar, it's not too hard to find and extra hour late on Saturday night. It would be Edina's last loss of the season.

Closing the loop on another too long and pedantic post of mine, after the drubbing by Roseville in 02-03, the Hill players met, and decided they'd been thoroughly embarrassed. At the state semis at the X, it was Roseville losing to Holy Angels, and Hill beating Jefferson to play in the final. Those Roseville kids were P.O.ed that the team they beat 10-1 finished ahead of them. They stayed after the conclusion of the 3rd place game for the specific purpose of harassing Hill. As I was leaving the X, walking past the library on Kellogg, one of these clowns shouted "Holy Angels!!!" I said, "Hey, you finished third!" His response, "Roseville Raiders!!!"

[BlueLineSpecial]

This is true of darn near every team, so it's not unique....but Hill can't hang with Tonka, Chanhassen, Wayzata and we'll see against Edina. I'm convinced those are the 4 cream-of-the-crop teams. So whether Hill loses 3-0 or 9-0 to those teams, it doesn't really bother me at this point. I would be shocked if anyone but 1 of those 4 teams wins the AA title this year. Hill has proven against 3 of the 4 (we've yet to play our annual home and away with Edina) that we probably can't compete with those top teams. We've been outscored 3-15 against Chanhassen, Wayzata and Tonka and gave up an average of like 36 shots per game. The top 2 seeds are going to come from those sections, and after than I think a Friday night at State game is up for grabs. And after the Friday night drubbings, we'll probably have a great championship game between two phenomenal teams.