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AGAINST the GRAIN
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slapshooter



Joined: 20 Mar 2002
Posts: 4100

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:58 am    Post subject: AGAINST the GRAIN Reply with quote

This may not be a topic for the 'faint of heart', so if

you're a little sensitive, you might as well click on to the next

topic, because this subject might be a little hard to swallow,

for those with tender skin.

I saw it before, when Holy Angels proved to be the

Best, and brought Respect, as did Hill Murray, to the Private

and Catholic Schools in regards to High School Hockey in the

Great State of Minnesota. A lot of you folks didn't like it.

Now, the Warroad Warriors are bringing that 'Respect'

and ' Dignity ' to Class A in Minnesota as they prove to be

amongst the best, if not THE BEST, and once again a lot of

you folks don't like it. The idea of Class A High School Hockey

producing some of the finest, if not THE FINEST, High School

Hockey Team in the state really goes ' AGAINST THE GRAIN '

for a good many of you doesn't it? Tell the truth now....:evil


L8o 0] E, SL8o PSH8o 8o TER.

(...a legend in his 8o wn mind...)


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iknowbetter



Joined: 01 Mar 2003
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: AGAINST the GRAIN Reply with quote

A good hockey player is a good hockey player, a good team is a good team. Unfortunately for the A teams and players your only as good as the competition you play against. In most cases it's true.

Could Warroad compete against the AA powers, sure this year they could, do they have some great players sure this year they do. But for whatever the reason Warroad CHOOSES to play in class A? Their program will never get the same credit and respect the AA teams get until they play, compete and WIN in class AA. That's just a fact of life.

Breck, Blake, BSM, Rochester Lourdes, SP, TG all good teams, with some great players but would any of them win the AA state championship.

Let's keep an eye on SSP,I understand they moved from AA to A this year. There's a storied program, rich in tradition that just couldn't compete or so they felt. I know a number of their players and let me tell you they are very good hockey players, so why play A ?

Edited by: iknowbetter at: 1/22/04 4:47 am
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slapshooter



Joined: 20 Mar 2002
Posts: 4100

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:39 pm    Post subject: Yeah, maybe, but,...by SS Reply with quote

iknowbetter,

Yeah, maybe, but, who in Class AA would have a shot at

the 'Title' in Class A with Warroad at the helm thus far

this year? Isn't it a 'fact of life' that at least two of the

top ten ranked teams in the state are currently Class A

teams? Who out there in AA are capable of knocking

these off there pedestal? Warroads ranked second so far

aren't they? How many teams in AA could really beat the

top 5 in A? Is Warroad the New York Jets of Minnesota

High School Hockey and was Selvog the Joe Namath of

Class A? Warroad had the winningest record in

Minnesota High School Hockey last season and thus far

combined with this season still do. I think it matters little

to the ' Warriors' whether they have the so called

' respect ' of the ' Class AA is better horn blowers ' (like

yourself) when it comes time to drop the puck. :lol

If this keeps up, how long will it be before you're so

called Class AA Powers are clamoring for a spot in Class A

in an attempt to get the ' respect ' that many do crave?

Be warned however, when most Class AA teams don't

have that ' respect ' in their own Class, they shouldn't

expect any different when they get to Class A.  >D

L8o 0] E, SL8o PSH8o 8o TER.

(...a legend in his 8o wn mind...)

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Linden16



Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:55 pm    Post subject: I would put my money on Reply with quote

I would put my money on Centennial beating Warroad.

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joe lulic



Joined: 29 Jul 2002
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Yeah, maybe, but,...by SS Reply with quote

So, the truth finally comes out. The reason people resent class A is because it is better. Amazing.

It would have never occurred to me. So from now on instead of the good programs wanting or being pressured to go to AA, they will be petitioning to move to A, if they are not already there.

I can just hear the debate when the likes of EP, Jefferson, and Centenniel beg to get into A so they too can get some repect. This changes everything.

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Dons



Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Yeah, maybe, but,...by SS Reply with quote

I like the point that a AA team looking for respect whether it be temporary or long term shouldnt assume that dropping down to A does not by any means guarantee this respect they are looking for. i think we all agree that, centennial aside, not all AA 3rd liners would easily play first on any single A team. i say this about centennial bcause apparently they have many of great lines...as they can let up and still put in 20..but taht is beside the point..AA as a whole might produce more D1 picks..but mind you..it is not by much at all.

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slapshooter



Joined: 20 Mar 2002
Posts: 4100

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 9:33 pm    Post subject: Actually 2 of the top 3...by SS Reply with quote

Actually folks,

Two ( 2 ) of the TOP three ( 3 ) ranked High School

Hockey Teams in the State of Minnesota the last time I

checked, were Class A Teams as in Warroad #2 and

Breck #3 with Centennial ( class AA ) hanging on at #1.

L8o 0] E, SL8o PSH8o 8o TER.

(...a legend in his 8o wn mind...)

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goldy313



Joined: 05 Mar 2002
Posts: 2905

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Actually 2 of the top 3...by SS Reply with quote

Thats just ones man poll though, it's easier to have a gaudy record playing mid level competition. Warroad may very well be the best team in the state, they saw this coming years ago and chose to stay in A. The game against Moorhead will say alot about how good Warroad is.

As Joe says, I can see it now, all the Lake schools sitting down at their school board meetings trying to figure out how to put a bond on the ballot so they can build 4 new high schools just so they can become class A schools and beat the mighty Warriors in the 1/4 full class A championship game:lol

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petey1321



Joined: 05 Feb 2002
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Actually 2 of the top 3...by SS Reply with quote

Trying to rile me up again, slapshooter? :) The facts of the matter are that Breck and Warroad have really only played 4 to 6 games where any top ten team has any business losing and the rest were against decidedly mediocre competition. Both teams have done a good job this season, and (looking at their schedules) they may very well finish up the season 1 and 2 in the computer rankings. Really, all Warroad has left is Moorhead, and all Breck has is two games with Blake (and, for that matter, all Blake has left is Breck). If Warroad beats Moorhead, they'll have played 2 top 20 teams in the entire season and gone 1-1 against them. Breck really won't play any top AA teams, but they do have a pounding of EP-beating Chaska and some strong A competition on the schedule. The point is this: the teams that these 2 teams are playing are nowhere near as good as the teams that and EP, and Edina, or even a non-conference Centennial will play. They're able to put up such gaudy records because they play weaker teams...even the AA teams they play are midlevel teams like Eastview.

And, what's more, when it gets to the playoffs, for Warroad it won't get any tougher until the state championship game. Breck has to survive that monster section (probably the 3rd or 4th best in the state after 3, 6 and maybe 4 AA) but then a free pass until they cross Warroad's path. These teams have had the chance to play better competition in the playoffs, and both have balked at the opportunity. While either of them can make a claim until they are blue in the face that they are the top team in the state this year, neither of them will win a state title that more than half of the XCel Energy Center will recognize. They chose to stay where they are, so they can fight for the Tier II championship, but I'll take my chances with the team that faces the best teams in March when it matters.

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iknowbetter



Joined: 01 Mar 2003
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Yeah, maybe, but,...by SS Reply with quote

Come on Slapshooter,

Who in class AA would have a chance to beat Warroad? You have got to kidding, didn't Edina already beat them? How about Centennial, EP, AHA, Moorhead and there are more then a few other team that could beat Breck anytime.

My point is and again you missed it, these A teams are VERY GOOD why don't they play in the AA against better competition year in and year out? My God wasn't the score of last years A state final 10-0 or something crazy like that against Simley! That game doesn't give justice to the Warroad players or their hockey program. Wouldn't it have been much sweater to have beaten say AHA, EP, then Anoka in the AA. Now that would get your blood flow in wouldn't it!

Edited by: iknowbetter at: 1/22/04 4:27 pm
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slapshooter



Joined: 20 Mar 2002
Posts: 4100

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:04 pm    Post subject: When everybody gets off work....by SS.. Reply with quote

Hey m:x ldy31, er..I mean g:x ldy313,

Were you at the consolation games for Class AA during

the state tourney last year? I would say that1\4 full at

those games would be a stretch.

Move the game for third place in Class AA to 3:00pm on

Saturday and put the Class A Championship Game in it's

time slot that same evening and see what happens. :lol

But that idea goes somewhat ' Against the Grain ' with a

good many of the f:x lks around here including y:x urself

doesn't it? :lol :evil :lol

L8o 0] E, SL8o PSH8o 8o TER.

(...a legend in his 8o wn mind...)

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oldschool



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 222

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:00 am    Post subject: a and aa Reply with quote

It's OK slappy, these guys are missing out on some aresome hockey and its their own fault.........
"Better competiition in aa"
If Warroad moved to AA, they would play in 8AA, this seciton is VERY strong(sarcasm) so I guess you are right..........NOT.
Just because a team is NOT aa, doesn't mean they do not play them, Warroad plays, Bemidji, Moorhead, Roseau, played Edina, two outa three are GOOD. Now you'll talk about that, they don't play GOOD aa teams, so who's good?????
I'm guessing all you will say is Edina, Eden Prarie, etc. Do you realize that for 99% of Warroad's games (and I think the state tourny is included) they take school buses to the games??? this is the 5 minute drive to Roseau and the 5 hour drive to Moorhead. They just plain cannot in a town wich has a population lower than most schools you want them to play, afford to drive to the cities every weekend. Can you guys get it through your heads?? they don't care about you, they have their team, they know they are good(or better than you) and they don't care.
Here's another twist to the whole situation for all of you this dumb view that class a is bad: Roseau moved to aa after 4-5 seasons of LOSING to Warroad in the Seciton 8a tourney, I know this because I wanted to see Roseau in state instead of Warroad and they NEVER made it!!!draw your own conclusions, but for the next two years, Roseau was in the state tourney after beating teams that were mediocre..............

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petey1321



Joined: 05 Feb 2002
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:08 am    Post subject: Re: a and aa Reply with quote

Of course, Warroad did wonderful things in the one-class system, didn't they? I'm sorry if the drive is too long; that's about the only excuse they can have for sticking around in Class A. But, to suggest that getting out of 8A is as difficult as staring down Warroad in 8AA is absurdity to the utmost. I say that Warroad's schedule isn't as good as, say, Eden Prairie's, and you offer 5-9 Bemidji and Roseau (who you beat 15-1 and who lost to 5-9 Bemidji) as counterexamples? Come on. If the drive is too far, that's unfortunate, but Roseau is willing to make the same drive that Warroad won't.

The point that I'm making here is that Warroad may or may not be the best team in the state. However, if Centennial wants to prove that they are the best team, they'll have to go through WBL, Hill-Murray, and several other teams, while Warroad won't have nearly the same difficulties. It won't even be close. And, as far as I'm concerned, that's a shame.

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oldschool



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 222

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:49 am    Post subject: Warroad Reply with quote

So Edina plays all their games against top 20 teams huh? and so does Centennial.....yeah right??????
Your obviously looking for something to complain about because I did say that Bemidji and Roseau weren't the best this year, but I tell you this without any doubt, that before the season started, before they even played Roseau or Bemidji, or LOW, or anyone besides the teams they usually beat(wich I don't know if they have a perennial bad team on their schedule) they don't know that they will win. That is the way NW minnesota is, all of those teams up there see themselves as equals, if Bemidji is 2-5 and Warroad is 7-0, it makes no difference untill the last buzzer sounds to end the game. All you guys look at is this year's record and that is too bad becasue if you knew anything you'd know that they do not have a simple record.
And, I defie you to say that Roseau makes more than 1 or maybe 2 trips to your pathetic over crouded sespools that you call the Twin Cities. Warroad doesn't care about you, again I say it, they do not and why should they????they know they have about the best history in hockey, some of the best names etc. who cares what Edina says????
So Centennial has to go through WBL and Hill huh???well warroad has to go through LOW and EGF, not too shabby, of course you'll just say something moronic and arrogant so forget it..............
By the way, I've NEVER been so offended as when you said I'm form Warroad, PUKE, I am so far on the other end you aren't even in the same neighborhood.......

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petey1321



Joined: 05 Feb 2002
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:03 am    Post subject: Re: Warroad Reply with quote

Overcrowded "sespools"? You are referring, of course, to the metro area that routinely finishes in the top 5 of every sort of quality of life survey that anybody does, correct? If you want to live in the sticks, that's fine, that's your business, but don't start thinking that the hockey is better in NW Minnesota because you have to drive 5 hours to find a JC Penney. The geography and hockey talent in a region are not related. I guess if you want to go with the bizarre argument that a 2-5 team is the same as a 7-0 team, that's your deal, but I'd say records and strength of schedule say a lot about a team. Warroad has the record, to be sure, but they haven't played many tough teams to get it. Edina has, and Centennial has, and EP has. Sure, they each have laughers, but they also have to play more than 2 top 20 teams in the entire season.

Warroad has "about the best history in hockey"? Anoka has more state championships than Warroad. Or do you seriously think it's as difficult to win the Class A as it is to win the Class AA tourney? Simley in the title game? Seriously?

And no, I have no idea how many trips Roseau makes anywhere. Wouldn't them not making tons of long trips totally refute the argument that travel prevents Warroad from playing class AA?

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HBK 15



Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:32 am    Post subject: Re: Warroad Reply with quote

slapshooter--why do you have to write in such a way that takes up so much space? its stupid just write normal like everyone else that posts on here.

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centerman



Joined: 24 Jul 2002
Posts: 156

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:34 am    Post subject: Warroad Reply with quote

Warroad is very talented this year! However until they play AA their fans have no business making statements about being the best. Could they beat any AA team on a given night? Sure! That however doesn't prove they are the best. If they truly thought they could win the AA tourney with this group they would have opted up.

As far as hockey history. Warroad had Zero state titles before class A. Sure they had a few good teams and some wonderful individuals but they had many many down years as well.:D

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slapshooter



Joined: 20 Mar 2002
Posts: 4100

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:44 am    Post subject: Put very nicely Joe, by SS Reply with quote

Well, Joe has put it very nicely when he suggests that

everything has changed although I doubt that he really

gets it, no more than he ' got it when Blues :smokin

Buddy gave it back to scheids316 when scheids316 was

way out of line. :lol That was quite possibly the finest

piece of posting that Blues :smokin Buddy has yet to

craft out of many excellent efforts. Should be entered

into the ' best of forum' all by itself, but just like Class A

Hockey getting any kind of ' respect ' from many around

here it probably won't happen. If it turns out that

Warroad proves to be the best team in the state then it

follows that the best High School Hockey resides in Class

A and deserves all the 'respect' of a first class Champion!

But that idea, simply goes ' Against the Grain ' of a good

many of the folks in these waters doesn't it? :lol

L8o 0] E, SL8o PSH8o 8o TER.

(...a legend in his 8o wn mind...)

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joe lulic



Joined: 29 Jul 2002
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:21 am    Post subject: the grain of things to come Reply with quote

I just saw my kids team get beat by Breck 7-0. I maybe didnt get it before, but I get it now. The great slapshooter doesnt make uo the polls my friends. He isnt the one putting those lowly class A types that the powder blue peteys of the world stick their noses up at in the top 5 of all teams. He is merely stating the facts,... once again the facts of modern life.

The class AA supremists are shaken.....visibly. As my close personal friend Robert Zimmerman from the great hockey town of hibbing taught us... Oh the times they are a changin.

I am havin a scotch and goin to bed.

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oldschool



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 222

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:50 am    Post subject: Warroad,Tourney,etc........... Reply with quote

Most NHL products than any other given town in the world, Marvins, Christians, a lot of 1980 olympics.........you're right, Anoka has more history.......:rollin
As for the state a tourney, if a AA school could easily win the a tourney, we'll see when or if South St. Paul goes, if they even get there, will they win????of course not , they would have to beat Warroad then right?????
Guess you're right, that old hockey hot bed Anoka dwarfs Warroad's tradition, and anyone who goes to the A tourney doesn't count............then why would you count the aa tourny for anything since they do not have to beat Warroad to be champions.................

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slapshooter



Joined: 20 Mar 2002
Posts: 4100

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:03 am    Post subject: Hard Rain's Fallin' on Class AA today by SS Reply with quote

That's right Joe,

Class AA fanatics now have two shoulders to

look over. :lol

Benilde ( class A ) just put the boots to Hill

Murray ( class AA ) 4 to 3, and SLP ( class A ) just laid

a ' stinger ' on Edina ( class AA ) 4 to 3.

Looks like Class A is gettin' tired of gettin' kicked around

by the Class AA 'supremists' and you can hear the

cheers of Class A loyalists and their teams everywhere

who have been constantly insulted time and time again

which undoubtedly goes ' Against the Grain ' of a good

many f>: lks around these waters. :lol

L8o 0] E, SL8o PSH8o 8o TER.

(...a legend in his 8o wn mind...)

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petey1321



Joined: 05 Feb 2002
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:17 am    Post subject: Re: Hard Rain's Fallin' on Class AA today by SS Reply with quote

Sorry, oldschool, but South St. Paul doesn't really represent any sort of AA hockey. They never won the single class tourney (just like Warroad, for that matter), and they now went down to Class A because their numbers allowed them to do so. Any decent team can beat any other team on any given night. Look at Chaska against Eden Prairie, if you must. But, until a team goes through the rigors of winning 6 straight games in March to win the state tournament against the best competition they can find, they won't be the state champions. That's the situation Warroad forced itself in, and they have to lie in the beds they made.

As for the computer polls: sure, they are objective, but those same objective polls gave us an LSU vs Oklahoma final when everybody who knew anything wanted to see USC play in the big game. Computers can't take a hot goalie or a bad ref or a bad bounce into consideration, and all those things happen in hockey, and sometimes teams get upset. But, teams that get upset don't win the state championship. Anoka last year was THE state champion. That's it. Anybody else claiming a title is just blowing hot air into the wind, because they had the choice of playing the best and they decided to play the rest.

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goldy313



Joined: 05 Mar 2002
Posts: 2905

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: Hard Rain's Fallin' on Class AA today by SS Reply with quote

Slappy, you're treading on the thin ice of the girls hockey argument now, play a girls game then a boys game and wow the people will come. So you admit the only way anyone will care about A hockey is to pigtail it on the AA teams, interesting. Pretty sad to have to compare an AA consolation game and the A championship. You can't legislate interest, sorry. Oh by the way I see the all powerful 8A LOW team that has been held up as quality team just got run by an also ran Bemidji of 8AA, Warroads schedule is just getting more impressive by the day. SLP beats Edina where Warroad can't, hmmm another boost for 8A. Tr

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Froomcat



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 123

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:21 am    Post subject: Slap's response Reply with quote

The last one documenting BSM and SLP's win's over Hill and Edina was great--Let's just say that Warroad, Breck, BSM, Blake, Park are very good teams this year--In A--BSM has a good tradition now and Warroad played Edina supertough in the loss and I'm looking forward to their matchup with Moorhead. The Breck/Park game I saw at Breck on 1/3 where Breck won 3-1 was a total classic. Park outshot them by 10-12 shots but Breck has a super goalie and Wheeler is very impressive!

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slapshooter



Joined: 20 Mar 2002
Posts: 4100

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:38 am    Post subject: Open your eyes Moldy er I mean Goldy by SS Reply with quote

Hey m:x ldy er uh I mean g:x ldy313,

What are y:x u, speed readin' again?

The point I was making was that at 3:30pm a lot of folks

are still working and that has much to do with the

smaller turnout. Place that game at the time when the

3rd place Class AA game takes place and you'd have a

lot more people in the seats! Comprende' ?

TJ Oshie ain't no girl,

and he and his ' Warriors' will 'rock your world' !!!

L8o 0] E, SL8o PSH8o 8o TER.

(...a legend in his 8o wn mind...)

(....sheeeeezzzz, some peoples kids.......:lol ....)

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