State Seeding

THEGunslinger · Post by **THEGunslinger** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:28 am

In one sentence please tell me what the advantage or disadvantage would be using a seeding system for the state tourny? Support your Vote! I really would like to see peoples comments. Lets keep this short and to the point!

State Champ 97 · Post by **State Champ 97** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:30 am

Put a metro team vs outstate in the first round every year and then let the chips fall where they may.

Dickie Dunn · Post by **Dickie Dunn** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:33 am

Like it or not coaches are bias toward their own areas and since the state is so large I don't think the coaches can make a good seedings.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:38 am

They should seed the teams for the same reason they seed the sections.

Its hard to give such short answers but if Slinger says keep it brief, you have to.

boblee · Post by **boblee** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:04 pm

Seedings can help make a cinderella story even better. It also gives the opportunity for the best matchup in the state finals.

gr19 · Post by **gr19** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:07 pm

Let the champs of 7AA and 8AA have a chance to play each other in the final. Its fun when the north teams play the TC's teams at state. Not cool having Rapids and Roseau play in the first round. Would have been great to see the Rams play Blaine or CDH in the afternoon session last year.

THEGunslinger · Post by **THEGunslinger** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:48 pm

GR19- Now now, you broke the rule.... Simply was looking for a one sentence response to why! Come on now!

Ankles Pierre, Jr. · Post by **Ankles Pierre, Jr.** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:05 pm

Give the top seeds in Section 3 a second chance through Sections 7 & 8; then seed the State Tourney so that WBL, Roseville, Stillwater, or Centennial don't have to meet Hill-Murray in the first round; next, spread the four Catholic teams out, too (one Catholic squad for each first round game would assure a GOOD FRIDAY of semifinals).

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:17 pm

Gunslinger, you did too; that being said, the 1st and 2nd best team playing first round isn't fair, like why you seed the sections, but maybe people other than the coaches should seed.

State Champ 97 · Post by **State Champ 97** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:22 pm

but maybe people other than the coaches should seed

So who should?

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:35 pm

Not sure, that would've taken more than one sentence. Maybe they could plainly use record, or have a ranking system like PS2. Not saying that it's not great, but they could do whatever it would take to make it better. No system is perfect, but then there would be no human element. Or they could just have all the coaches vote for the teams that aren't theirs, 1-7, team with lowest is #1 and so on. There could be some bias, but I really don't think there would be that much.

Maybe they could discuss the teams first and someone could look over the votes. If six people put one team at #1 and then the 7AA and 8AA coaches put them at #6, let's talk to them about it, or something of that sort. But realistically, do people really think that would happen?

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:50 pm

I like APs suggestions.

(Man, this one sentence thing is tough. Im sure glad Slinger doesnt start every thread.)

Dickie Dunn · Post by **Dickie Dunn** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:54 pm

Jesus wept.

George Blanda · Post by **George Blanda** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:08 pm

In 2004, State Ranked #1 Warroad lost in overtime to the eventual state runner-up in the first round. Then they routed St. Cloud Cathedral and Albert Lea. Seeding would keep consolation brackets competitive, IMO.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:31 pm

We can all give examples of why its a good idea as thruout the years matchups have occurred in the quarters and the semis that were billed as ' the real championship game' but I think that the opposition against seeding based on 'the coaches will be bias' and other such reasons is not well founded because the seeding process is not scientific and if thats a real concern, we shouldnt seed the sections or the NCAA tournamnet or anything else but we do because even a seeding that isnt perfect is better than none at all and if we needed to we could use HAL but I can see how people would be opposed to it because it really 'doesnt capture the spirit of the thing' because the State Tournament is about teams playing other teams from different parts of the state and not necessarily the best vs the best but since so much emphasis is placed on the championship it should be seeded like every other big thing is and I think Sister Mary Rose would wack me with a ruler for this run on sentence but at least Gunslinger cant yell at me.

Dickie Dunn · Post by **Dickie Dunn** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:34 pm

How about we let LaPlanta and Gorg do it?

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:49 pm

I liked the sentence.

So, what's the point of the state tournament? It's not to see who's the best team in state? Really? It's actually to get teams from different parts of the state to play each other? Shouldn't it be more of a round robin then? Or, even if it doesn't work out then the teams that aren't within a certain distance of each other who didn't play each other have to? But just for fun.

I could've sworn it was actually to crown the team who does the best post-season, but while doing our best to get teams from all over.

Sparlimb · Post by **Sparlimb** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:56 pm

packerboy wrote:We can all give examples of why its a good idea as thruout the years matchups have occurred in the quarters and the semis that were billed as ' the real championship game' but I think that the opposition against seeding based on 'the coaches will be bias' and other such reasons is not well founded because the seeding process is not scientific and if thats a real concern, we shouldnt seed the sections or the NCAA tournamnet or anything else but we do because even a seeding that isnt perfect is better than none at all and if we needed to we could use HAL but I can see how people would be opposed to it because it really 'doesnt capture the spirit of the thing' because the State Tournament is about teams playing other teams from different parts of the state and not necessarily the best vs the best but since so much emphasis is placed on the championship it should be seeded like every other big thing is and I think Sister Mary Rose would wack me with a ruler for this run on sentence but at least Gunslinger cant yell at me.

What he said

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:04 pm

HS, The state tournament is about a lot of things and if the best team in the state wins it, thats fine but it never has been about making sure the best plays the best so, in that regard, seeding may not be appropriate.

Neutron 14 · Post by **Neutron 14** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:46 pm

Sparlimb wrote:
packerboy wrote:We can all give examples of why its a good idea as thruout the years matchups have occurred in the quarters and the semis that were billed as ' the real championship game' but I think that the opposition against seeding based on 'the coaches will be bias' and other such reasons is not well founded because the seeding process is not scientific and if thats a real concern, we shouldnt seed the sections or the NCAA tournamnet or anything else but we do because even a seeding that isnt perfect is better than none at all and if we needed to we could use HAL but I can see how people would be opposed to it because it really 'doesnt capture the spirit of the thing' because the State Tournament is about teams playing other teams from different parts of the state and not necessarily the best vs the best but since so much emphasis is placed on the championship it should be seeded like every other big thing is and I think Sister Mary Rose would wack me with a ruler for this run on sentence but at least Gunslinger cant yell at me.

What he said

What Sparlim said, and anything that screws the northern schools and assures an all metro final, works for me...

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:29 pm

If it's about many things, other than crowning the team that happens to do the best in the final 64 team bracket, let us hear it, don't just say it is.

The Wisconsin State tournament is a perfect example of where seeding is not needed, kinda of like our football tournaments. They have just the main bracket, not even a third place game. It doesn't make sense, IMO, to not seed, then to have a consolation bracket. The winner of that could be the 2nd best team, or the 6th best team, depending on how things land. If there is just the main bracket all your are playing for is the State Championship, so no need for seeding, the only guy to be acknowledged is the guy (or team) who didn't lose.

But if you're going to have a consolation bracket and basically play things out, you should seed. Or have a system from throughout the year of earning your spot.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:17 pm

Well HS, I am sure you have noticed that the sections are predetermined so that no matter who might be the top 2 teams they can be in the same section so that only one even makes the final 8.

In tournaments such as the NCAA, they put teams in sections(regions) at the end of the season based on percieved strength , distributing the best teams so that they dont play each other until the final four, barring upsets.

The MSHSL has never claimed that its year end tournament consists of the best 8 teams in the state. Its the 8 section champs.

It used to be the region champs but they did away with that as the sections are more of an attempt to be competitively balanced but still, Roseville will not be sent to section 8 or 7 at the end of this year to even things out like a Midwest team might be sent to the West Regional in the NCAA and lose to a Catholic team from the East coast. .

It is the goal of the MSHSL to have competitive teams from all over the state participate. They dont care if the best teams are there and they certainly have never cared if the 2 best teams play each other in the quaters.

So, thats why I raise the question of whether seeding is within the spirit of the thing.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:24 pm

But we aren't suggesting changing the sections. What they are trying to do by having the sections how they are is still there, but why not not the bracket once you get there more competitive. And they are doing this, so obviously they think so.

THEGunslinger · Post by **THEGunslinger** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:20 am

Hey Packer...

That was quite a sentence... im very proud of you!

For the rest... Is it that we want the best two teams in the finals?

END NOTE: At least Packerboy can follow directions, I think his teachers would be proud!

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:43 am

I have the advantage of being taught by nuns and when you have been taugt by nuns you learn that.....we follow orders or people die..its that simple. Are we clear?

But we should seed the tournament so the 2 best teams play on Sat night.

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