State Seeding

Ankles Pierre, Jr. · Post by **Ankles Pierre, Jr.** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:21 pm

We should seed the nuns (Sister Mary Charles for Best Math Teacher), and if we are still limited to one sentence, we should use Appropriate Punctuation.

State Champ 97 · Post by **State Champ 97** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:28 pm

The first round should be metro vs outstate.

Ankles Pierre, Jr. · Post by **Ankles Pierre, Jr.** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:32 pm

Then we would have no first round this year!

Puckhandler · Post by **Puckhandler** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:38 pm

George Blanda wrote:In 2004, State Ranked #1 Warroad lost in overtime to the eventual state runner-up in the first round. Then they routed St. Cloud Cathedral and Albert Lea. Seeding would keep consolation brackets competitive, IMO.

George,

And in 2005, Albert Lea lost to eventual state champion Warroad in round one, then routed Virginia and Little Falls.

There is never going to be a perfect scenerio.

I believe that the seedings will draw away attendance from Thursday's great day of hockey quarterfinals. I think it's great when there is a great matchup on Thursday pitting two of the top teams in the state.

It's just another way for the state to screw with a wonderful tradition.

State Champ 97 · Post by **State Champ 97** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:45 pm

Then we would have no first round this year!

Why is that AP? There may have to be some adjustments to what is metro and what isn't. Maybe a north of St. Cloud and a south of St. Cloud type of thing.

Post by **east hockey** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:50 pm

packerboy wrote:I have the advantage of being taught by nuns and when you have been taugt by nuns you learn that.....we follow orders or people die..its that simple. Are we clear?

Crystal

As for the current format, I support keeping it. Not in favor of seeding, even if using an "unbiased" computerized system such as HAL or Mitch's.

Lee

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:28 pm

Thank you Lt Kaffee and now we all know what Lee's opinion is.

But Lee...Why? Why, as a fellow old fart, do you want to keep it the way it is?

MajinHockey · Post by **MajinHockey** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:54 pm

The concept of seeding presupposes that the best teams will advance the furthest in any given tournament, but because games are not "played on paper" the element of chance/luck/extraordinary effort, nullifies to some degree the objectiveness of seeding. You could say that the state tournament is already seeded if you take into account the section tournaments. If you extrapolate the state tournament to include the sections, well, you have a 64+ team field, ala the NCAA Basketball tournament. You could then say that each section represents a region, again like the NCAA. Now, the NCAA doesn't reseed when it gets to the elite 8, it just keeps the predetermined brackets going. Upsets happen, mismatches happen, two topped ranked teams happen. However, the sun will rise. Introducing seeding in the State tournament is an example of the high school league finding a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

Lee, not that you have the time for such an adventure, but, it would be interesting to archive the past, oh, 8 years or so of the state tournament. Compare PS2 rankings in the sections and then the state tournament matchups. So, say break down all of the seeds in the sections, determine how many times the #1 seed (ps2 seed) came out of the section, then seed the state tourney with the appropriate ps2 ranking and post the results of the tournament with their "seedings"

Dickie Dunn · Post by **Dickie Dunn** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:15 pm

It was more than one sentence and you really didn't take a stance but I think you get the comp A so far.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:26 pm

The big difference between the NCAAs and the 64 teams that end up playing in our sections is that the top teams are distributed among the sections at seasons end in the NCAA.

Thats a huge distinction.

If the sections were 'stocked' with teams based on an even distrbution of strength there would be no reason to reseed the state tournament any more than there would be to reseed the final four in the NCAAs.

But we have teams advancing to the state tournament from weak sections that do not have a top 20 team in them.

If you have that kind of system, you should seed.

MajinHockey · Post by **MajinHockey** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:01 pm

You bring up an interesting point packerboy...but...I would opine that your argument for there being sections that don't have "top 20" teams in them is, for lack of a better word, pointless. The state high school league, in order to create some sense of order, places teams in sections based (at least loosely) on geography. This cuts down on travel expenses and creates and promotes regional rivalry. If the point of the section tournaments was to ensure that you had the best chance of getting the top-ranked teams to state, then they would have kept the Tier system. Promoting seeding in the state tournament is essentially a defacto tier system for the championship bracket. Rotating section assignments in the state tourney is as fair as one can objectively be. It takes out the subjectiveness of a seeding process. I reiterate, the high school league is proposing a solution where there is no problem.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:25 pm

The sections that we have exist the way they exist because of politics.

Sense of order, my axe.

Now, in all fairness to the MSHSL they have in recent years in the metro area changed the sections around form time to time to reflect changing competitive situations. But section 3AA is out of whack.Section 1AA assures a team from the south metro and thats all.

There are other issues. Section 5A is not only political but AP would call it bigotted...although BSM moving on did help some what.

But OK, you want to base involvement in the state tournamet on politics, fine, seed the teams.

Just because the matchsup are determined in a random fashion doesnt mean its fair except in the sense that its bad policy for everyone. Russian roulette isnt fair because its random.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:14 pm

I may have missed something in this one sentence rambling but,

The 2007 State AA and A hockey tournaments WILL BE SEEDED.

Seeds one to four by coaches on the Saturday preceeding the tournament and five to eight will be by random draw.

#1 vs #8
#4 vs #5

#2 vs #7
#3 vs #6

higher seed is home team.

per MSHSL site.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:21 pm

I hate it when that happens. Whats there to argue about?

Ankles Pierre, Jr. · Post by **Ankles Pierre, Jr.** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:18 pm

Ankles
_________AP
HSHW

_________________AP

Sparlimb
_________SL
Elliott70

___________________________AP!

Slappy
_________N14
N14

_________________PB

DickieD
_________PB
Packer

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:33 am

Congrats on your victory AP. It would not have been possible without seeding.

Neutron 14 · Post by **Neutron 14** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:23 am

Well done AP. Of course I'm a little disappointed with the all

final.

Not to be

or anything, but competing "we've got Jesus how bout you chants" doesn't flip my switch. But I'll probably have to get used to it...

Dickie Dunn · Post by **Dickie Dunn** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:24 am

Thanks goodness there is no consolation bracket as I already have suffer a 2 and BBQ once already.

boblee · Post by **boblee** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:44 am

how about these...

GRhawky vs. boblee

GR19 vs. Syd Barrett

Ankles Pierre Jr. vs. Nuetron14

Elliott70 vs. Slapshooter

Then semis...

boblee vs. Syd Barrett

AP vs. SS

Chip...

Syd Barrett vs Slapshooter

PASTRAPIDSFAN · Post by **PASTRAPIDSFAN** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:42 am

Im coming in the wild card spot of this game

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:44 am

Ankles and Bob

Are you talking a one on one hockey match?

Rassling?

Or a battle of wit and intelligence?????

THEGunslinger · Post by **THEGunslinger** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:47 am

I knew that it was seeded, I guess I wanted to see the argument on each side...

and Im really sad that I was not included in the tournament of posters!

Dang Nabit!!

The SLinger

Ankles Pierre, Jr. · Post by **Ankles Pierre, Jr.** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:56 am

There's always next year.

THEGunslinger · Post by **THEGunslinger** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:00 pm

been hearing that for years!

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:01 pm

SLINGER
You will have to work harder in the off-season.

HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

State Seeding

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Can't argue with these brackets!