New participation rule

[love2skate]

What am I missing? All I can figure is that this new rule benefits Private school kids giving them a CHOICE of where they want to play. Or, is that just for this year? Does it change next year to only being able to play where you go to school?

[frederick61]

I repeat the question "Why should Richfield accept Johnny?" but re-phrase it. If Richfield rejects Johnny what will Minnesota Hockey/District do to the Richfield association? Nothing? If nothing is done, what does Johnny do?

[cclavin]

What am I missing? All I can figure is that this new rule benefits Private school kids giving them a CHOICE of where they want to play. Or, is that just for this year? Does it change next year to only being able to play where you go to school?

Charter schools & open enrollment kids too.

[greybeard58]

Fred,
The associations have signed an affiliate agreement with Mn Hockey and part of the agreement follows:
A. MH Preeminence
The Affiliate, an affiliate association of MH, shall abide by and act in accord with the Articles of
Incorporation, By-Laws, Rules and Regulations, Playing Rules and decisions of the Board of Directors of
MH, and such documents and decisions shall take precedence over and supersede all similar governing
documents and/or decisions of the Affiliate. Further, Affiliate (i) shall assist MH in the administration and
enforcement of the provisions of the By-Laws, Rules and Regulations, Playing Rules and decisions of the
Board of Directors of MH, within and upon its members and/or within its jurisdiction.
There is more and I believe it can be found on the Mn Hockey web site.
guided by the following core values of USA Hockey and MH:

[frederick61]

Fred,
The associations have signed an affiliate agreement with Mn Hockey and part of the agreement follows:
A. MH Preeminence
The Affiliate, an affiliate association of MH, shall abide by and act in accord with the Articles of
Incorporation, By-Laws, Rules and Regulations, Playing Rules and decisions of the Board of Directors of
MH, and such documents and decisions shall take precedence over and supersede all similar governing
documents and/or decisions of the Affiliate. Further, Affiliate (i) shall assist MH in the administration and
enforcement of the provisions of the By-Laws, Rules and Regulations, Playing Rules and decisions of the
Board of Directors of MH, within and upon its members and/or within its jurisdiction.
There is more and I believe it can be found on the Mn Hockey web site.
guided by the following core values of USA Hockey and MH:

So what does Minnesota Hockey/District do when the city tells the the association to abide by their agreements and give preference to the residents. Do they follow the law as enacted by the elected city officals or the "rules" as enacted by a 501c organization? During all this, what does Johnny do? Does he go back to his resident association and make his case to that city? At what point does someone in either association get named in a suit? Does the District get named in the suit? Does Minnesota Hockey get named in the suit?

[greybeard58]

Fred,
The best way to get your answer is from the District Director of your District or contact a lawyer. What I posted on the affiliate agreement was one part of approximately 4 pages in length. It is my understanding that every association has a signed document on file. As far as to what Mn Hockey would do or the courts would rule it is a waste of time to speculate before an actual situation involving Mn Hockey arises.

[frederick61]

Fred,
The best way to get your answer is from the District Director of your District or contact a lawyer. What I posted on the affiliate agreement was one part of approximately 4 pages in length. It is my understanding that every association has a signed document on file. As far as to what Mn Hockey would do or the courts would rule it is a waste of time to speculate before an actual situation involving Mn Hockey arises.

Because Minnesota Hockey has offered choice to the resident kid this first year, does not mean it will not be a problem next year. However, the "school area" association has no choice this year and must accept the new players. There are a number of "parent dominated" associations that will not want Johnny because it may mean their own kid will not play at the level they could be playing.

My point has been all along why did Minnesota Hockey make this rule that creates all this potential confrontation now? In the face of a down economy with all its potential issues, they made a ruling that turned a non-issue into THE issue. It will be a waste of energy and numbers of kids playing will drop.

Minnesota Hockey should have addressed issues to sustain hockey and facilitate growth. Instead they chose to address a non-issue and that results in a very negative, confusing, environment for parents and kids, a issue that potential alienates hockey associations, their city government and parents; and left the real issues untouched (district re-alignments, aid in improving scheduling so more distant associations could offer a friendlier game schedule, etc).

Did Minnesota Hockey hope that nothing will happen? That no controversy would result? I personally hope that nothing happens because I enjoy watching youth hockey. But I also know that hockey parents are not passive when it comes to the sport.

[greybeard58]

I do not know why some of them voted for this. Most that voted for(8? non district Directors) do not have to enforce the rule. The 5 that voted against knew what they wanted and how it could affect their District,unfortunately they could not convince the others to open their eyes.
As for the other maybe all should contact the V.P.'s of Planning and Publicity and ask them what their committees have put forth.
Mn Hockey finally has a committee on retention that focuses on the younger ages.
Surprisingly USA Hockey has come out with a number of ideas on this issue and their presentation at the summer meeting was interesting. I would have hoped to hear this from Mn Hockey rather than USA Hockey.

[elliott70]

Elliott or another whom can answer

How does MH expect to enforce this at each local association level?
Registration starts in 2 weeks for some, how does the local association know if a child is not enrolled in the local hockey association school district?

Their current software or checklist is a map / address using the local school district: enter the home address , sorry your kennedy, your good your jefferson. How do they determine a child living in Kennedy hockey association side, but is attending St Richards 6th grade in Richfield.

Isn't there something better you can do to increase participation in MH?

I don't know.

[council member retired]

Elliott or another whom can answer

How does MH expect to enforce this at each local association level?
Registration starts in 2 weeks for some, how does the local association know if a child is not enrolled in the local hockey association school district?

Their current software or checklist is a map / address using the local school district: enter the home address , sorry your kennedy, your good your jefferson. How do they determine a child living in Kennedy hockey association side, but is attending St Richards 6th grade in Richfield.

Isn't there something better MH board can do to increase participation in MH?

I don't know.

It can be very frustrating. Keep moving forward.

[SWPrez]

Just had a fun phone call with the waiver rule. Someone who lived in Minnesota but left for three years moved back to their community....but their player attends school in our geographic area. They would really like to play hockey in their real 'community'.

For this player, they have to register with us now! I told the parent they couldn't have the waiver and they would have to drive the kid home from school and then back and forth from hockey each night. The parent went absolutely ballistic. Did I mention that they live in a third ring suburb over 30 minutes out?

Oh well, he's ours now. We own him.

Just kidding. I told the parent to ignore the rule, register directly with their local community organization, and skip the waiver. I won't tell if they won't tell (unless, of course, we are playing them in the championship of a big tournament and need to bring up his ineligibility ). Really, unless there is a Minnesota Hockey Czar specifically set up to track players and where they are going, it really makes more sense to save on the bureaucratic paperwork and let the kid REGISTER FIRST IN HIS GEOGRAPHIC AREA AND THEN ASK FOR A WAIVER OUT if he wants one.

To Elliot and others....a simple change to this whole rule which will prevent many associations from falling apart. Have all players register first with their local associations and then request waiver....rather than the other way around. I know this may mean the Edina and Eden Prairie guys get a few more pieces of paperwork, but the rule as it currently stands is not workable for small associations with large parochial, private, and open enrollment. An easy change at the upcoming meeting and I am sure you can get it done.

[ThePuckStopsHere]

Just had a fun phone call with the waiver rule. Someone who lived in Minnesota but left for three years moved back to their community....but their player attends school in our geographic area. They would really like to play hockey in their real 'community'.

For this player, they have to register with us now! I told the parent they couldn't have the waiver and they would have to drive the kid home from school and then back and forth from hockey each night. The parent went absolutely ballistic. Did I mention that they live in a third ring suburb over 30 minutes out?

Oh well, he's ours now. We own him.

Just kidding. I told the parent to ignore the rule, register directly with their local community organization, and skip the waiver. I won't tell if they won't tell (unless, of course, we are playing them in the championship of a big tournament and need to bring up his ineligibility ). Really, unless there is a Minnesota Hockey Czar specifically set up to track players and where they are going, it really makes more sense to save on the bureaucratic paperwork and let the kid REGISTER FIRST IN HIS GEOGRAPHIC AREA AND THEN ASK FOR A WAIVER OUT if he wants one.

To Elliot and others....a simple change to this whole rule which will prevent many associations from falling apart. Have all players register first with their local associations and then request waiver....rather than the other way around. I know this may mean the Edina and Eden Prairie guys get a few more pieces of paperwork, but the rule as it currently stands is not workable for small associations with large parochial, private, and open enrollment. An easy change at the upcoming meeting and I am sure you can get it done.

Boy you are one classy association president

[elliott70]

Just had a fun phone call with the waiver rule. Someone who lived in Minnesota but left for three years moved back to their community....but their player attends school in our geographic area. They would really like to play hockey in their real 'community'.

For this player, they have to register with us now! I told the parent they couldn't have the waiver and they would have to drive the kid home from school and then back and forth from hockey each night. The parent went absolutely ballistic. Did I mention that they live in a third ring suburb over 30 minutes out?

Oh well, he's ours now. We own him.

Just kidding. I told the parent to ignore the rule, register directly with their local community organization, and skip the waiver. I won't tell if they won't tell (unless, of course, we are playing them in the championship of a big tournament and need to bring up his ineligibility ). Really, unless there is a Minnesota Hockey Czar specifically set up to track players and where they are going, it really makes more sense to save on the bureaucratic paperwork and let the kid REGISTER FIRST IN HIS GEOGRAPHIC AREA AND THEN ASK FOR A WAIVER OUT if he wants one.

To Elliot and others....a simple change to this whole rule which will prevent many associations from falling apart. Have all players register first with their local associations and then request waiver....rather than the other way around. I know this may mean the Edina and Eden Prairie guys get a few more pieces of paperwork, but the rule as it currently stands is not workable for small associations with large parochial, private, and open enrollment. An easy change at the upcoming meeting and I am sure you can get it done.

I will bring it up.

[puckboy]

this is one part that is totally wrong with this silly rule. We all know associations are doing this and I don't blame them. But whatever team players like this end up on they will technically have an illegal roster. As we all know people will be looking closely at this when playoffs come around.

change the rule- please

[SWPrez]

Boy you are one classy association president

Puckstopper,

I apologize for the sarcasm regarding the rule. You got me. I think it is pretty clear that I don't like the rule and, at the least, it should be modified. I know of one association that will be completely falling apart this fall as a result of it (not mine). While some think it was "best for the kids" to waive to their school area....those kids that are left behind no longer have a program or are begging me to help them out.

I was mentally tired when I posted earlier....thus the sarcasm. I had spent 20 minutes on the phone, and, after being up until 2:00am working on coordinating September and October's ice for our clinics and tryouts was a little tired. And physically, I was tired, as the Squirt, Peewee, and Bantam pond hockey sessions I ran last night (and all summer long) caused me to overexert myself as one of the 15 3 on3 teams only had two players and I had to play.

Actually, the more I think of it, it was a cumulative thing...I was up till 1:00 working on our recruiting website on Sunday:
http://www.MPLShockey.com
And the night before, I was designing and ordering yard signs for recruiting. On Friday I goofed off (but still got an ad designed for recruiting in our local paper!)....but Thursday night I was up late working on liability insurance issues and a strategy to get into our schools in Minneapolis as the school attorneys like to throw every roadblock in our way to get in (if it involves the arts or music....you get a free pass...but sports are to be minimized through attorney gatekeepers).

And then...spending 2 to 3 hours the last several days proofing online registration before it went online probably weighed on me too.

Just got word the other day that 15 kids from North Minneapolis would like to join our program....but can only afford $200 of the $1,300 they need to play (self promoting plug - would love to have a few sponsors from those reading this! PM me if you can help! Anyone have an inside line to the NHL Diversity Fund?). So, In the next few weeks/months I'll be staying up late fundraising to make sure these kids can play.

I really can't wait for the days next fall where I take 20 or 30 kids over to Sweden for a week of fun and relaxation .
http://minneapolispark.pucksystems2.com ... bandy-blog
Not to mention finding the funding for the few kids whose families cannot afford the trip. Note - I do let kids from outside our association come on these trips, so feel free to contact me.

Anyhow....again....I am sorry if I was sarcastic and perhaps not "classy" as Presidents should be. I do care about kids. I also do not believe in "old boys clubs" that I have been told run half the associations in the metro. I do think that the MN hockey rule should be changed to what I suggested - register at home and ask for a waiver ..... and I am stickin to it!

Tonight I am going to bed early......

[frederick61]

"Boy you are one classy association president!" When I read that comment, I thought it was genuine. To me you are one and need to make no apologies. Keep up the good work in D1.

I want to help get the ball rolling with the 15 North side kids and will donate $100. Contact me through private message on where to send the money and if they get a team going, let me know their schedule.

Keep up the good work, but you might re-think skating in 3 on 3 scrimmages. That makes for a sore Monday morning.

[ilike2score]

the previous poster made some good points. But seriously the new particpation rule that mirrors the open enrollment policy is the only way to go. I would assume most parents ultimate goal would be to see their kid play in the state hockey tourney. Anymore than that is a pipe dream for more than 99% The best way to build a team for a state high school run is for them to play together early and often. Thus the new rule....play for your school. This is the only logical thing to do. I only wish we could get the privates to start their own associations at an earlier age. The example I will give is that my 2nd grade nephew is an outstanding basketball player playing on the school where he attends and not where he lives.

[Community Based]

You're wrong on several points.

It's not, "the only way to go."
No youth player, "plays for their school."
It's not, "the only logical thing to do."
And, privates don't have, nor will they start, their own associations.

Are you saying it has something to do with a private school lobby? It could also have nothing to do with private schools. Kids in Bloomington could decide they want to play at Jefferson and then play youth with the Jefferson Youth Club. Or, could a summer AAA team think it would be fun to play together in the winter season and decide to all open enroll in Edina Schools and play together with the Edina Youth Association taking spots from tax paying community residents. There's two public school scenarios where the open enrollment rule, for youth hockey players, was not well thought out in terms of impact. Poorly written rule without any good reasoning. No one has stated any reasons that benefit any majority.

Youth hockey is played at youth associations which is based on community. Then comes high school, where you can open enroll, and play for your school. The majority wants youth (Squirt, PeeWee and Bantam) played with their community based youth association. Then comes high school, play where you attend school. Clear distinction. There should be little, to zero, connection.

[muckandgrind]

You're wrong on several points.

It's not, "the only way to go."
No youth player, "plays for their school."
It's not, "the only logical thing to do."
And, privates don't have, nor will they start, their own associations.

Are you saying it has something to do with a private school lobby? It could also have nothing to do with private schools. Kids in Bloomington could decide they want to play at Jefferson and then play youth with the Jefferson Youth Club. Or, could a summer AAA team think it would be fun to play together in the winter season and decide to all open enroll in Edina Schools and play together with the Edina Youth Association taking spots from tax paying community residents. There's two public school scenarios where the open enrollment rule, for youth hockey players, was not well thought out in terms of impact. Poorly written rule without any good reasoning. No one has stated any reasons that benefit any majority.

Youth hockey is played at youth associations which is based on community. Then comes high school, where you can open enroll, and play for your school. The majority wants youth (Squirt, PeeWee and Bantam) played with their community based youth association. Then comes high school, play where you attend school. Clear distinction. There should be little, to zero, connection.

But you are also forgetting that 72% believed that MH should consider where the kids go to school, as well. That's a majority as well.

[Carl Racki]

You're wrong on several points.

It's not, "the only way to go."
No youth player, "plays for their school."
It's not, "the only logical thing to do."
And, privates don't have, nor will they start, their own associations.

Are you saying it has something to do with a private school lobby? It could also have nothing to do with private schools. Kids in Bloomington could decide they want to play at Jefferson and then play youth with the Jefferson Youth Club. Or, could a summer AAA team think it would be fun to play together in the winter season and decide to all open enroll in Edina Schools and play together with the Edina Youth Association taking spots from tax paying community residents. There's two public school scenarios where the open enrollment rule, for youth hockey players, was not well thought out in terms of impact. Poorly written rule without any good reasoning. No one has stated any reasons that benefit any majority.

Youth hockey is played at youth associations which is based on community. Then comes high school, where you can open enroll, and play for your school. The majority wants youth (Squirt, PeeWee and Bantam) played with their community based youth association. Then comes high school, play where you attend school. Clear distinction. There should be little, to zero, connection.

But you are also forgetting that 72% believed that MH should consider where the kids go to school, as well. That's a majority as well.

But I would bet that at least 90% of the kids do live where they go to school. I wonder how the question was posed? Was it a clear question? Doubt it knowing MH and their verbage.

[SWPrez]

But I would bet that at least 90% of the kids do live where they go to school. I wonder how the question was posed? Was it a clear question? Doubt it knowing MH and their verbage.

Bingo Carl Racki,

The District 1 Presidents met with the main MN Hockey folks that pulled together this policy. They stated the reason they brought the policy forward was that the survey showed they should do something.

We pulled out the questions from the questionaire:

Kids should play hockey in their local community - approximately 74% stated yes.

Kids should play hockey where they go to school - approximately 72% stated yes.

As was brought up, those percentages both play locally and go to school locally! Only 21% of MN Hockey families responded to this survey. However, if the 21% were highly motivated from outstate, or large associations - where the implications of the rule are a nonfactor - it skews the rationale to follow this survey even further.

The policy should not have gone forward and as a result I am aware of one association that is currently imploding. There are probably a few more in the Minneapolis/St. Paul metro that also are harmed and will fail in the next 2-3 years. Not fair to the kids that have to stay in those associations when they are destined to getting killed every time they step on the ice because all of their key players left for 'greener pastures'.

Hey, right or wrong, for me the gate is open and the horse is out of the barn. All I ask of Minnesota Hockey is to change the rule so that families can register first where MOST want to play - their local community association - and then let 'greener pastures' folks request a waiver to move on. A simple change to the rule.

[yeahyeahyeah]

The excuse for playing with your friends is good in theory. No matter where anyone "let's" a kid play they still need to make the team that all their friends make. So lets say Little Mikey goes to a private school as does Jimmy, Jimmy makes the A team Mikey makes the B team, what is next special rulings that allow open enroll/private/special needs blah blah blah blah select what level they get to play at as well?
I am guessing the self serving "Majority" would assume this sounds acceptable.
My kid played on an A team last year, he plays where he lives, he didn't have one kid from his school on his team. 6 different schools were represented on the team. It was tragic by the end of the year my kid got to know kids that were a year older AND attended 5 different schools. It was terrible, he made all these new friends!
He made new friends and still hangs out with some of them even though he plays AAA and has friends on those teams from, GASP, other cities too.
I am sure this will negatively impact him for life.

[Wasilla]

"Boy you are one classy association president!" When I read that comment, I thought it was genuine. To me you are one and need to make no apologies. Keep up the good work in D1.

I want to help get the ball rolling with the 15 North side kids and will donate $100. Contact me through private message on where to send the money and if they get a team going, let me know their schedule.

Keep up the good work, but you might re-think skating in 3 on 3 scrimmages. That makes for a sore Monday morning.

Is this new league an option for these kids?

http://www.minnesotahockey.org/page/sho ... b=settings

Minnesota Hockey Recreational League
Welcome to the Minnesota Hockey Recreational League Information Page!


The Minnesota Hockey Recreational League will include:

• Price: $350 for 11U & 13U/$425 for 15U (these ages apply to boys and girls players - this is your age on July 1st, 2009)

• One game per week - Saturday, One practice per week on a weekday.

• All games played at Twin Cities area arenas

• Centralized location in your area (SW, NE, NW, SE) Metro

• Team Jersey to keep

• Sign up as an individual or a team

• Check and Non-Check Options

• Year end tournament

• Pre Season Skills Clinics

• 12 games from Dec - Mid March

Each Player must register first with USA Hockey and then return to this Registration Session to signup for the 2009-2010 Season.

[SWPrez]

"Boy you are one classy association president!" When I read that comment, I thought it was genuine. To me you are one and need to make no apologies. Keep up the good work in D1.

I want to help get the ball rolling with the 15 North side kids and will donate $100. Contact me through private message on where to send the money and if they get a team going, let me know their schedule.

Keep up the good work, but you might re-think skating in 3 on 3 scrimmages. That makes for a sore Monday morning.

Is this new league an option for these kids?

http://www.minnesotahockey.org/page/sho ... b=settings

Minnesota Hockey Recreational League
Welcome to the Minnesota Hockey Recreational League Information Page!


The Minnesota Hockey Recreational League will include:

• Price: $350 for 11U & 13U/$425 for 15U (these ages apply to boys and girls players - this is your age on July 1st, 2009)

• One game per week - Saturday, One practice per week on a weekday.

• All games played at Twin Cities area arenas

• Centralized location in your area (SW, NE, NW, SE) Metro

• Team Jersey to keep

• Sign up as an individual or a team

• Check and Non-Check Options

• Year end tournament

• Pre Season Skills Clinics

• 12 games from Dec - Mid March

Each Player must register first with USA Hockey and then return to this Registration Session to signup for the 2009-2010 Season.

Wasilla,

Nice thought. Minneapolis Park and Rec has a similar 'hockey light' program out there for $75 and no USA Hockey membership. These 15 kids (4 bantams, 6 peewees, and 5 girls) would like to play travelling hockey so that they can get the coaching and experience to potentially play high school JV in a few years with perhaps a chance to skate varsity if they progress. They won't get this playing recreational hockey.

We need to offset the cost it takes to put them on the ice (approximately $1,100 - $1,300 per kid depending on age group) with the approximate $200 each can bring to the table. I saw Frederick's post....thanks Frederick...I will PM you in the next few days.

[PoniesDad45]

What am I missing? All I can figure is that this new rule benefits Private school kids giving them a CHOICE of where they want to play. Or, is that just for this year? Does it change next year to only being able to play where you go to school?

I think it means if for example your child attends Woodbury Junior High School and you decide to send him to Hill Murray. I believe Hill Murray is in North St Paul's association area so you would have the choice to put your child either in NSP's youth association or keep him/her in Woodbury. If you do switch, your child cannot play on an A level team for 12 months from the date of register. If you choose to keep your child at Woodbury then he/she can play at the A level.

This is how I read it, can someone correct me if I'm wrong?