Achiever Academy bows out

blondegirlsdad · Post by **blondegirlsdad** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:48 pm

Appears they have left the MSHSL and are going full-fledged Tier 1.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/preps/266141541.html

Don't know who they'll play against, doubt they'll be real competitive right away, but if they can get past the first couple years with any sort of success, this would likely change things forever. They have changed their team name as a result - The Revolution.

Your thoughts?

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:04 am

I'm going to strum a few bars of Kumbaya. What else do these kids get in addition to 3 hours of ice and 4 hours of 'classroom instruction' plus 70+ hockey games all over the country? Are they going to have a softball team? Soccer? Swimming? Tennis? Are they going to have band or choir or shop classes or a quiz bowl team, a debate club, a robotics club? A prom?

zambonidriver · Post by **zambonidriver** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:43 am

Last winter during a snow day my daughter and I were at the VH Bubble I was hitting her fly balls just to do something different. They were playing soccer
When I asked the instructor if they had school he said yes. He told me it was their PE period this was about 12:30 PM.

MN_Bowhunter · Post by **MN_Bowhunter** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:39 am

I knew the name change was coming regardless. Deceiver Academy, Cheater Academy, etc. was just too easy. The Devolution? Convolution? Dissolution? This name is harder to have fun with.

On a serious note, has there been any news from the MSHSL regarding last years debacle and why it took so long for them to do their job when they had all the evidence before the sections even started?

zambonidriver · Post by **zambonidriver** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:21 am

MN_Bowhunter wrote:I knew the name change was coming regardless. Deceiver Academy, Cheater Academy, etc. was just too easy. The Devolution? Convolution? Dissolution? This name is harder to have fun with.

On a serious note, has there been any news from the MSHSL regarding last years debacle and why it took so long for them to do their job when they had all the evidence before the sections even started?

Schools in the MSHSL usually self report violations Activities Directors usually are very well schooled in eligibility rules and have attended many seminars about what the MSHSL requirements are. My guess is AA never had a person in the position of an AD. They probably just scheduled the games and turned in their roster and paid their dues. Usually things like this don't happen and when they do it is usually a mistake like what happened with the Mahtomedi exchange student a few years ago. My Guess is what happened with AA was that Northern Educate started the process and the people who took over thought everything was taken care of. The MSHSL just doesn't have a enough staff to oversee everything especially with all of the charter schools popping up. Their two main sources of revenue are the dues paid buy member schools and revenue from the state tournaments.

mnhockeyguy2014 · Post by **mnhockeyguy2014** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:41 pm

Bows out of what??? They are moving forward. They had option to stay in MSHSL if they chose and have not been denied the ability to field a HS team at any future time they choose. Tier I has always been the goal after a year or two of existence. Will they be Shattuck right away? No.. I do see them getting potential Shattuck recruits in coming years due to affordability. Will they field much better teams than the T-breds recently? I think so.
Make no mistake that this school (Bauer-Emerson Prep) and current Tier I part timers Blades and Northern Wings have changed MN hockey landscape. Great option for players and families that want more hockey IMO. Similar to the 41 boys that left MN hockey this year that considerably watered down the talent in this years State Tourney these teams will pick off a lot of good girls players like it or not. I expect more Tier I teams to pop up as well in 'The State of Hockey" in the near future.....Get the crying towel ready for when a top player leaves your precious HS program for Tier I.

blondegirlsdad · Post by **blondegirlsdad** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:17 pm

Umm.. Bows out the MSHSL?

And yes, I recognize that it was their decision, and no I don't place any positive or negative connotation on that decision. What they do moving forward will not affect me or my immediate family in any way.

Froggy Richards · Post by **Froggy Richards** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:23 pm

mnhockeyguy2014 wrote:Bows out of what??? They are moving forward. They had option to stay in MSHSL if they chose and have not been denied the ability to field a HS team at any future time they choose. Tier I has always been the goal after a year or two of existence. Will they be Shattuck right away? No.. I do see them getting potential Shattuck recruits in coming years due to affordability. Will they field much better teams than the T-breds recently? I think so.
Make no mistake that this school (Bauer-Emerson Prep) and current Tier I part timers Blades and Northern Wings have changed MN hockey landscape. Great option for players and families that want more hockey IMO. Similar to the 41 boys that left MN hockey this year that considerably watered down the talent in this years State Tourney these teams will pick off a lot of good girls players like it or not. I expect more Tier I teams to pop up as well in 'The State of Hockey" in the near future.....Get the crying towel ready for when a top player leaves your precious HS program for Tier I.

Tier 1 teams can't just "pop up" in the State. They have to be approved by MN Hockey. Granting it to Achiever full time was the best thing that could have happened in my opinion. Now there is a Precedent to keeping it with schools, if you want to call Achiever that. Add in the Blades and Wings for before and after (which has no affect on Association or High School) and you now have four. I'm willing to bet that's the quota they had in mind. Now the wolves are at bay and nobody can accuse them of not allowing Tier 1. This was the best case scenario. It won't affect Association Hockey and hopefully now we're done with it. I think MN Hockey just might be crazy like a fox on this one.

mnhockeyguy2014 · Post by **mnhockeyguy2014** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:53 pm

[/quote]

Tier 1 teams can't just "pop up" in the State. They have to be approved by MN Hockey. Granting it to Achiever full time was the best thing that could have happened in my opinion. Now there is a Precedent to keeping it with schools, if you want to call Achiever that. Add in the Blades and Wings for before and after (which has no affect on Association or High School) and you now have four. I'm willing to bet that's the quota they had in mind. Now the wolves are at bay and nobody can accuse them of not allowing Tier 1. This was the best case scenario. It won't affect Association Hockey and hopefully now we're done with it. I think MN Hockey just might be crazy like a fox on this one.

[/quote]

Precedent will open door for others.

Part time Tier I programs will give some desire to go full time.

Won't affect HS and ASSOC hockey??? Someone is crazy!

Look what Juniors is doing on the boys side. There may be 100 upperclassmen playing juniors soon..... Most of them are never going pro either.

zambonidriver · Post by **zambonidriver** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:01 am

mnhockeyguy2014 wrote:

Tier 1 teams can't just "pop up" in the State. They have to be approved by MN Hockey. Granting it to Achiever full time was the best thing that could have happened in my opinion. Now there is a Precedent to keeping it with schools, if you want to call Achiever that. Add in the Blades and Wings for before and after (which has no affect on Association or High School) and you now have four. I'm willing to bet that's the quota they had in mind. Now the wolves are at bay and nobody can accuse them of not allowing Tier 1. This was the best case scenario. It won't affect Association Hockey and hopefully now we're done with it. I think MN Hockey just might be crazy like a fox on this one.

[/quote]

Precedent will open door for others.

Part time Tier I programs will give some desire to go full time.

Won't affect HS and ASSOC hockey??? Someone is crazy!

Look what Juniors is doing on the boys side. There may be 100 upperclassmen playing juniors soon..... Most of them are never going pro either.[/quote]

A lot of what I am reading is longing for the days of yesterday. What is happening really started in the colleges in the late 70's and early 80's. Back then Juniors was a place where the marginal players went to play and the USJHL was full of goons. Now juniors are the JV programs for university where they send players to develop for two years. Most universities recruit Juniors on the mens side both d 1 and d 3. Kids see the opportunity to play more games. The other problem is specialization my 12 year old plays year round where her older sister did some stuff in the summer but never to the scale that they do now. Tier 1 is a natural evolution from traveling assoc hockey. The minute assoc's started picking A B and C teams started us down this path. The elite need to develop and be pushed is what you hear all the time hence AA A B B2 C. We are the exception not the rule. The girls side is a little different as the high schools are eating their young as younger and younger kids start playing high school. When my older girls were playing it was very rare to see an eighth grader playing JV let alone varsity now it is normal. Their are 5 girls programs that are now tier 1 Blades N Wings AA Shattuck and the thoroughbreds. Shattuck and the thoroughbreds have been around a long time and provide an alternative which I think AA will. Most parents that have had kids in tier one will tell you that most kids can't handle it full time practice is late night and the travel kills you plus it is so expensive. I know the Blades coach and the before and after model seems to fit best very little practice and lots of tournaments on the weekends all over the country. Then the girls go play for their high schools in the winter. This gives you the best of both worlds and during the school year the kids can focus on what is important SCHOOL. AA or what ever it is called now and the parents sending their kids there will find out that the travel schedule alone will not leave any time for social activities. High school and assoc hockey won't die though it may have to adapt.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:29 am

This isn't a court of law. We may be putting a little too much emphasis on precedent. It seems to me MSHSL makes the rules it chooses to make (and some would say, enforces the rules it chooses to enforce), certainly taking history into account, but not married to it.

hockeyfan87 · Post by **hockeyfan87** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:02 am

zambonidriver wrote: Their are 5 girls programs that are now tier 1 Blades N Wings AA Shattuck and the thoroughbreds. Shattuck and the thoroughbreds have been around a long time and provide an alternative which I think AA will. Most parents that have had kids in tier one will tell you that most kids can't handle it full time practice is late night and the travel kills you plus it is so expensive. I know the Blades coach and the before and after model seems to fit best very little practice and lots of tournaments on the weekends all over the country. Then the girls go play for their high schools in the winter. This gives you the best of both worlds and during the school year the kids can focus on what is important SCHOOL.

Zambonidriver - So are you saying that the Blades and Northern Wings are truly "USA Hockey Registered Teams" playing a Before and After schedule? If so, in the Spring they would be competing for the National Tournament, correct? Also, if they are in the Spring then none of their players are eligible for the MN Hockey Reebok Advanced 15, 16 or 17 programs, correct?

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:20 am

Don't the SSM kids currently participate in the Reebok Performance program?

Coachk · Post by **Coachk** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:24 am

yes they are, SSM and Thoroughbred players were included in the tryouts.

zambonidriver · Post by **zambonidriver** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:43 am

hockeyfan87 wrote:
zambonidriver wrote: Their are 5 girls programs that are now tier 1 Blades N Wings AA Shattuck and the thoroughbreds. Shattuck and the thoroughbreds have been around a long time and provide an alternative which I think AA will. Most parents that have had kids in tier one will tell you that most kids can't handle it full time practice is late night and the travel kills you plus it is so expensive. I know the Blades coach and the before and after model seems to fit best very little practice and lots of tournaments on the weekends all over the country. Then the girls go play for their high schools in the winter. This gives you the best of both worlds and during the school year the kids can focus on what is important SCHOOL.
Zambonidriver - So are you saying that the Blades and Northern Wings are truly "USA Hockey Registered Teams" playing a Before and After schedule? If so, in the Spring they would be competing for the National Tournament, correct? Also, if they are in the Spring then none of their players are eligible
for the MN Hockey Reebok Advanced 15, 16 or 17 programs, correct?
I don't know about that like I said I just know the Blades coach I work with him and I know he has the girls going all over the country and Canada in the fall and spring. I guess I don't see what the big deal is. Hockey has become a game for people who can afford it. That is why you see numbers declining in the city and the working class suburbs. The natural evolution of the sport is going to be private clubs and triple A. This is something you can't stop.

Hard water fan · Post by **Hard water fan** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:22 pm

The Northern Wings does not have a Tier 1 team on the girls side. You are probably thinking of the boys.

nu2hockey · Post by **nu2hockey** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:03 pm

I believe the Wings and the Blades have not applied and/or have been approved for Before and After Tier 1 girls teams. I hope they do, Tier 1 is here. If they do it would be nice to have 4 teams in the state to watch as they try to compete on a national level.(I say 4 because,unfortunately, I don't think the Thoroughbreds will be viable much longer.)

hockeyfan87 · Post by **hockeyfan87** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:40 pm

Zambonidriver - I don't have a problem at all with additional Tier 1 programs, and I really like the "Before and After" option. I was just trying to understand better the programs that you talked about.

I approached MN Hockey a few year back and asked about starting a Tier 1 Before and After program. They took my meeting and as I was about to give my little presentation, they told me that, "It was not going to happen!". They had absolutely no problem with the "Before" part, as having a team in the Fall would not compete with the MN Hockey Spring Advanced programs. They told me that the "After" part would not be approved because it would compete with their Spring programs, but thank you very much for the interest.

The problem is, that a player cannot be on two USA Hockey Rosters at the same time. So if she was playing for SSM as they were competing for a National Tournament Qualification, she could not tryout for and be rostered on the MN Hockey Advanced team. Now, once her team is eliminated and their season is done, she can tryout.

A few full-time Tier 1 programs are one thing. But MN Hockey will never approve a bunch of part-time Before and After programs, because they would lose to much talent for their Spring advanced programs.

Many summer AAA programs travel all over the US and Canada and play hockey in the Spring/Summer. That does not mean they are a Tier 1 USA Hockey Team.

Otter · Post by **Otter** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:02 pm

mnhockeyguy2014 wrote:Bows out of what??? They are moving forward. They had option to stay in MSHSL if they chose and have not been denied the ability to field a HS team at any future time they choose. Tier I has always been the goal after a year or two of existence. Will they be Shattuck right away? No.. I do see them getting potential Shattuck recruits in coming years due to affordability. Will they field much better teams than the T-breds recently? I think so.
Make no mistake that this school (Bauer-Emerson Prep) and current Tier I part timers Blades and Northern Wings have changed MN hockey landscape. Great option for players and families that want more hockey IMO. Similar to the 41 boys that left MN hockey this year that considerably watered down the talent in this years State Tourney these teams will pick off a lot of good girls players like it or not. I expect more Tier I teams to pop up as well in 'The State of Hockey" in the near future.....Get the crying towel ready for when a top player leaves your precious HS program for Tier I.

I'm not a fan of the MSHSL.

There have been plenty before & after teams tried in years past. I remember the Walser teams, etc, around 7 years ago and farther back. They eventually peter out and fold over time.

Girls' AAA hockey is dying in Michigan, and is not expanding anywhere right now. The only new program in recent years is in Boston, and from what I understand that is made up of a small core of parents who have been disgruntled with the Prep/High School model in Mass. Now they have to recruit nation-wide to fill their roster. Point being, an endeavor won't usually be successful when it has to rely solely on people who are pissed off about something.

Why are you so bitter and nasty?

Coachk · Post by **Coachk** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:29 pm

You might want to research the East Coast item you mentioned, a new league just started up to accomadate the excess players, while holding costs down. Regarding Michigan, Honey Baked and Little Ceasars might disagree with you. I am not a huge High School league fan, some of my children have played high school and I have coached it it. My youngest does not. But that being said and after dealing with people in another state recently regarding AAA hockey, I learned to love the Minnesota hockey people all over again. Yeah, we can be bitter and even somtimes mean, but we have the best overall of everything hockey related. Its not perfect, but we are always trying to make it better. Outstate parents might hate Minnesota, but ask any player and they will tell you, Minnesota is where hockey its at. By the way the Thoroughbreds will not field a team this season.

Otter · Post by **Otter** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:53 pm

Coachk wrote:You might want to research the East Coast item you mentioned, a new league just started up to accomadate the excess players, while holding costs down. Regarding Michigan, Honey Baked and Little Ceasars might disagree with you. I am not a huge High School league fan, some of my children have played high school and I have coached it it. My youngest does not. But that being said and after dealing with people in another state recently regarding AAA hockey, I learned to love the Minnesota hockey people all over again. Yeah, we can be bitter and even somtimes mean, but we have the best overall of everything hockey related. Its not perfect, but we are always trying to make it better. Outstate parents might hate Minnesota, but ask any player and they will tell you, Minnesota is where hockey its at. By the way the Thoroughbreds will not field a team this season.

I don't know what teams you're referring to in the East, but the only teams added to the JWHL were both Canadian--Athol and Okanogan. The four Michigan teams have been merged into 3 now (instead of Honey Baked and Little Caesars, how about talking to Belle Tire...they don't answer their phone? I wonder why?)

So to go back to my favorite measuring stick:
Minnesota has approx. 48-50 D1 recruits from the class of 2014 starting college this fall. All but 3 of them played High School hockey (and I'm not counting the 2 late Achiever recruits as HS). The last I heard, Michigan has 5. That's right, 5! And we're the ones who need our "landscape" changed? Are you insane? If you Achiever people want to patch together a schedule playing the Milwaukee Admirals and St Louis Lady Blues and Ohio Flames and Madison Capitals and Fairbanks Fire then fine, but don't try to drag the rest of the state down into that craphole!

And if Achiever people think they're somehow competing with Shattuck, please. Shattuck was a world-reknown prep school long before they had girls' hockey. Do you know how many Minnesotans they had on their team this year? As far as I know, it was zero. They could have moved some back and forth from the U16, but at least I know none of the graduating seniors were from MN. It's laughable and insulting to compare Shattuck in any way, including hockey, to an operation running online classes out of the zamboni room in the back of an arena.

Coachk · Post by **Coachk** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:35 am

The new East Coast league is not in the JWHL it is a leagues based out of New Hampshire. Okanagan is not new to the JWHL and that other team you mentioned isn't in the JWHL. Its sad that you feel such dislike for anyone trying to give players another option for tier 1 in Minnesota. The fact is that the JWHL and independent league produces the bulk of D1 recuits. Minnesota does a great job but having a family member as a scout, during the season the high school players don't get nearly the looks that other leagues do by a wide range of schools. At the end of the day its up to the parents on what their daughter is to play and that will determine the sucess or failure of a tier 1 prigram in MInnesota.

hockeymaven · Post by **hockeymaven** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:06 pm

As the father of two hockey playing girls who both went on to play in college I am a big fan of the MN GHSH- the model works well and makes it more affordable for all.

MN definitely produces the most US D1 recruits by far-- however (and I recognize this is a generalization) the best US players at D1 colleges and the Olympics in recent years have been from from other states despite MN's larger numbers at D1 as compared to every other state

Otter · Post by **Otter** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:29 pm

hockeymaven wrote: the best US players at D1 colleges and the Olympics in recent years have been from from other states

BS! Harvard had a bunch of players this year's on the Olympic team because....drum roll.....the Harvard/Olympic coach wanted it that way! How did that work out for her? I heard LOTS of grumbling about the way that team was assembled before the Olympics started.

And the Gophers are made up largely of Minnesotans and you're saying what? They're not the best women's team in the country for the last 5 years? And the Patty Kazmaier award is dominated by East coast teams because....yeah, they outnumber the WCHA by 3-1. Anything that can be voted on is dominated by the East. Anything that has to be won on the ice is dominated by the West. Finally, the only team outside the WCHA to win a Nat'l Championship is made up of 22 Canadians and 2 Minnesotans.

Coachk · Post by **Coachk** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:42 pm

Yeah its kinda of goofy, but they also said that about the previous olympic team with all the Wisconsin players. I believe the in 1980 the east coast was mad regarding all the Minnesota players. No one is happy unless you win.

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