Looking at the records for the 2 Elk River Bantam B1 teams.
B1 Red:
0-16 and ranked #88 in state
B1 Black:
28-4-5 and ranked #4 in state
I'm confused. What is going on here? They also have a B2 team.
Balanced B teams?? (Elk River Bantam Black/Red)
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barry_mcconnell
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SCBlueLiner
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Goaltending could be an answer, though the records are so drastically different that it's hard to pin the difference on that alone.
The difference in goaltending in my kid's association at pee wees is so drastic that the A team, which is a .500 record team that is competitive in most every game, would probably be winless and getting blown out every game if they had the B goalie. I've seen other teams this season that had some very good players with size, speed, and skill, yet the goaltending was so horrible the team lost all the time. Tough for kids to go out and play hard every game when they know there is no chance to win with who they have in net.
Goaltending can be a big difference.
The difference in goaltending in my kid's association at pee wees is so drastic that the A team, which is a .500 record team that is competitive in most every game, would probably be winless and getting blown out every game if they had the B goalie. I've seen other teams this season that had some very good players with size, speed, and skill, yet the goaltending was so horrible the team lost all the time. Tough for kids to go out and play hard every game when they know there is no chance to win with who they have in net.
Goaltending can be a big difference.
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ERPWA Hockey
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Re: Balanced B teams?? (Elk River Bantam Black/Red)
Elk River has been doing this for years with these same results. It's a bad idea for a program this size. Make even teams at the B level and put teams at the correct level. The Pee Wee A team should have been a B1 team but the egos of a couple board members refused to listen.barry_mcconnell wrote:Looking at the records for the 2 Elk River Bantam B1 teams.
B1 Red:
0-16 and ranked #88 in state
B1 Black:
28-4-5 and ranked #4 in state
I'm confused. What is going on here? They also have a B2 team.
Best news for this program is the Board VP just quit because he wasn't getting his was so the President & VP job are wide open next year.
Need some new Elk River blood to step up and get this program back to it's glory days.
You're not confused Barry your trolling, the two teams were created similarly to Wayzata's Navy and Blue team last year or their Blue and Gold team this year. They're many associations that choose to field two teams per level Duluth East Black and Red, Edina Green and White, Eagan Blue and Green all of which have appreciable margins. Even if the associations intent was to create two balanced teams the inherent intangible differences in coaching and selected players has the potential for similar results.
What exactly is your point regarding the B2 team? Maybe this might clear up some of your confusion, two hockey teams; not drum circles, were formed at the same level, one overachieved or preformed as expected the other did not. Regardless both are playing hockey; not holding hands and singing "Kumbaya," to the best of their abilities.
What exactly is your point regarding the B2 team? Maybe this might clear up some of your confusion, two hockey teams; not drum circles, were formed at the same level, one overachieved or preformed as expected the other did not. Regardless both are playing hockey; not holding hands and singing "Kumbaya," to the best of their abilities.
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barry_mcconnell
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Whoa whoa whoa. Settle down chief. I'm not trolling at all. I'm honestly just curious. It's not possible to perfectly balance multiple teams but I've never seen such a drastic difference.Wapiti wrote:You're not confused Barry your trolling, the two teams were created similarly to Wayzata's Navy and Blue team last year or their Blue and Gold team this year. They're many associations that choose to field two teams per level Duluth East Black and Red, Edina Green and White, Eagan Blue and Green all of which have appreciable margins. Even if the associations intent was to create two balanced teams the inherent intangible differences in coaching and selected players has the potential for similar results.
What exactly is your point regarding the B2 team? Maybe this might clear up some of your confusion, two hockey teams; not drum circles, were formed at the same level, one overachieved or preformed as expected the other did not. Regardless both are playing hockey; not holding hands and singing "Kumbaya," to the best of their abilities.
Are associations required to balance their B teams or is it just a convention? Does this differ from district to district?
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old goalie85
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Obviously, they drafted the top 17 for the Black. Three other associations that I know of that have two BB1 teams, Wayzata, Minneapolis, and Edina, have teams that are reasonably close in talent. While their records can be somewhat different, it's nowhere near the discrepancy between the two ER teams.
Would suck to be on ER Red. What kind of people think this is the right way to do things?
Would suck to be on ER Red. What kind of people think this is the right way to do things?
Maybe not OG, but they knew you'd be watching!!old goalie85 wrote:We went w/two even PB1's and both are about 500. Not sure if it was luck or a great job by the director/two coaches. [no I'm not a coach or the pee-wee director] My point is it can be done. In the Elks defense we don't have an "A" team. We went w/AA/B1/B1/B2/C.
Sorry, fresh out, Don't Really Give Any.
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Section 8 guy
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Spare me the righteous indignation. Wayzata and Edina have 8 full Bantam teams while Minneapolis and Eagan have 6. With 3-4 full teams or 45-60 skaters remaining after both B1 teams are selected. With that amount of depth you'd be balanced by default more than by intent.
Elk River had 3 full and 1 partially rostered Bantam team to pick a AA, 2 B1's and a B2 from, 57 skaters in all. Which is equivalent to the amount of players remaing after those aforementioned associations that got it right, have to work with when done picking their balanced teams.
The Red team was expected to play as well as last years B1 team which would have kept them somewhere near the top 20 but extenuating circumstances have hamstringed the team all year. Anyone familiar with the team knows that they have failed to play at the level they're capable of. I'll spare the salacious details I know your waiting for and instead simply state, uneven strength hockey does not give a team an opportunity to compete or win. Especially so at the frequency at which it occurs with this years Red team.
16 games, nice try but the Red team has played in 3 tournaments to date and has a 19 game district schedule they've almost completed and they've played in additional scrimmages too. So go stir the pot in your own association, Elk River has plenty of Moms and isn't looking for anymore volunteers.
Next time just speak plainly, Elk River is an average to slightly above average sized association that should know it's place and leave producing competitive hockey teams to the perennial favorites.
Elk River had 3 full and 1 partially rostered Bantam team to pick a AA, 2 B1's and a B2 from, 57 skaters in all. Which is equivalent to the amount of players remaing after those aforementioned associations that got it right, have to work with when done picking their balanced teams.
The Red team was expected to play as well as last years B1 team which would have kept them somewhere near the top 20 but extenuating circumstances have hamstringed the team all year. Anyone familiar with the team knows that they have failed to play at the level they're capable of. I'll spare the salacious details I know your waiting for and instead simply state, uneven strength hockey does not give a team an opportunity to compete or win. Especially so at the frequency at which it occurs with this years Red team.
16 games, nice try but the Red team has played in 3 tournaments to date and has a 19 game district schedule they've almost completed and they've played in additional scrimmages too. So go stir the pot in your own association, Elk River has plenty of Moms and isn't looking for anymore volunteers.
Next time just speak plainly, Elk River is an average to slightly above average sized association that should know it's place and leave producing competitive hockey teams to the perennial favorites.
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Section 8 guy
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Wapiti,
You probably could have cleared up the entire discussion by stating that the Red team has actually played a lot of games that aren't entered on Youth Hockey Hub, that they've actually won a bunch of those games and that the entire premise of the thread is inaccurate due to the bad data on YHH.
Might have been simpler for everyone.
You probably could have cleared up the entire discussion by stating that the Red team has actually played a lot of games that aren't entered on Youth Hockey Hub, that they've actually won a bunch of those games and that the entire premise of the thread is inaccurate due to the bad data on YHH.
Might have been simpler for everyone.
You're right, unfortunately they haven't won many of those games and as it is with most teams that drop out of contention neither they or the teams that they are playing against have any interest in reporting their scores.
It's been a frustrating season to watch. The Red team has a lot of individual talent and good families involved, which makes outside speculation a sensitive issue, I apologize.
It's been a frustrating season to watch. The Red team has a lot of individual talent and good families involved, which makes outside speculation a sensitive issue, I apologize.