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I can't think of another major sporting event that isn't seeded. All college and pro tournaments are seeded, and most high school tournaments are going that way. Why not seed? It rewards teams who did well during the regular season.

The ridiculous statements about the "country of ours was built by gov't", "Space Odyssey", "seeding is being against America", etc. will not be addressed at this time.

Let's go back to that point, a few posts back, it was presented that "trusting coaches" should know the quality of the teams as well as anyone. But do coaches (or anyone) really know the quality of ALL teams? If you don't play against them, or at least see them, how do you know how good they really are? Has anyone in the state been to enough games to actually have seen all teams that make it to state each year? My guess is that very few people have, if any.

Even if there is someone that has seen ALL section champs play, there is no way they have seen them all play at the end of the year. Therefore, is there anyone truly qualified to rank the teams? If nobody is truly qualified, why pretend that they are? If the effort is to be made, shouldn't it be done right? This is important, ranking gives an advantage to certain teams. And if it cannot be done correctly, with a pretty good degree of accuracy, why do it at all?

Each team earned their way into the tournament by winning every game they have had so far. They are all very good teams, all deserving an equal shoot. After the effort by all 8 teams to get to the tournament, why should any team get an advantage.

These are kids, who play predominately because it is fun. It is not for the fans. Why should any get an advantage over another, because some group of coaches percieves they aren't as good as the other 7 teams. And for what reason,.....so Neut can "work" on Thursday,....or so Packerboy can watch the two highest ranked teams play on Saturday night? Granted, you guys pay good money for your tickets, but shouldn't it still be the kids' game?

Once again our forefathers had it right,.....with the rotational system,.....you get the section you get this year,......it may be higher ranked team or a lower ranked team. If its the top ranked team, you have to beat them sometime anyway to win the championship,.....if it is the lowest ranked team, you got a lucky this year, but be ready to play, or you might get upset by them.

P.S. Will the farmers and gardners address it this time, or will we get some "space osyssey" right back at us?

Exactly. It's a reward and giving a reward to winning. I commented that the 0-25 team goes in the same as the 25-0 team and CNT's only response was ~"0-25 teams don't make it."

If not seeding teams is such a good idea, why do no college or pro tournaments do it?

College doesn't have champions from 8 distinct sections of the country come together to play a final tournament,.....or they shouldn't seed either.

Pro hockey is has a series so it doesn't make that much difference anyway. But beyond that, Pro hockey is professional hockey, they can do whatever brings in the fans. The game is for the fans. The HS game SHOULD be for the kids.

Which reminds me, about another issue regarding the State Tournament. The game SHOULD be for the kids, participating teams student fans should all be on the glass, none in the upper deck. I think the MSHSL has forgotten who the Tournament is for,....I think they think it's for Packerboy.

Knowlzee, the first response would be that they have all the coaches do the seeding instead of just one person for the reasons you have highlighted. But, I will completely agree with what you said, and it all highlights what I've been saying all along: use a ranking system.

I keep talking about it and no one says anything about it. They don't want it to be ranked because it will be "biased from coaches." Well, not with a ranking system.

And before you tell me that's not a good idea, consider that the NCAA use it for football, basketball, hockey, and probably many other sports. So, why not use it here?

The college seedings are the exact reason you shouldn't seed. Minnesota and North Dakota in the same regional? Let it be random. It is easier to explain a tough draw on bad luck than on regional bias.

Knowlzee, I'm not sure if you were ever a student athlete, but I was. And for you to suggest that these kids wouldn't like something that is more fair, like how the kids (18-22 year olds) in the NCAA like having things that make their season achievements play a role in their placements, is just crazy. You say it's for the kids, and put all the letters of 'kids' in capital letters as though it's supposed to make some point. Yes, it's for the kids, it's not about the fans. One thing you can't be ignorant to is that without the fans, it doesn't happen. Without the fans, the concession money, the tickets, etc, none of this happens. After we understand that, how is making a point that because it's about the kids having things that are unfair and are unlike they are done anywhere else a good thing?

College hockey has a "ranking system". But, they also have a bonus factor, that is put on, of which nobody knows the value at any time, which is how Minnesota, North Dakota, and Michigan can all be put in the same region. A ranking system, that can be "tweaked", so to speak,....not necessarily by "trusted coaches", but by other trusting committee members. I doubt the bonus factor is "decided" to yield the results desired by anyone.

HShockeywatcher, congratulations on being a "student athlete",.....I am just a fat 40 year old.

With regards to the HS kids, having been one at one time, and having raized a few,....the kids participating are probably so excited to be IN the State Tournament, that they are oblivious to the fact that with seeding, some teams get an advantage,......but it doesn't make it right.

The State Tournament would happen without the fans. There are many other HS State tournaments with not such good fan attendance, they still happen. The State Hockey Tournament has evolved into the money maker that it is. The revenue generated by the tournament far exceeds what it takes to put it on, in fact supports the other sports, and some.

The fans don't need to be the primary customer, but the MSHSL has obviosly chosen to value the ticket holder over the students, not just the student-athletes (like you), the student-fans, too,.......because they can......but also, doesn't make it right. To me, it would make more sense to put the fat 40 year olds in the upperdeck, than the students-fans of each game being played.

There is no advantage given by seeding teams. Quite the opposite. 3 games in 3 nights is grueling. If the top 4 teams were on the same side of the bracket beating each other up, a huge advantage would be given the to the winner of the bottom side whom skated through with ease. Random only means you get lucky or unlucky. Might as well flip a coin for the winner. Seeding ensures a equal distribution of good teams (and bad) so no team has an easy path. The process results in a worthy champion, not just a lucky one.

It doesn't matter if you trust the coaches Knowlzee. Its irrelevent. The coaches trust the coaches. The MSHSL trusts the coaches. The schools trust the coaches. It's their league. It's their rules.

Knowlzee is unAmerican.

Its "We the people" .... not "lets spin the wheel and see what happens".

God bless this great nation.

I will repeat again, for Neut (and Packerboy). I am for the traditional system. That is where the sections are rotated yearly (i.e. on the eigth year would be the same pairing as the first year). Again, each year the team gets the section champ that they get, nothing ramdom about it. Yes, some years you get section 1 (theoretical worst), and some you get section 8 (theoretical best) in the first round.

Neut, it isn't about "trust" of the coaches. Name a coach that has even seen all section winners at some time during the season, much less at the end of the season, when they may be an entirely different team.

Go ahead, give four teams an advantage, based on suspect information. As mentioned way early in this thread, bottom line, the issue is mostly insignificant anyway, because the team that can win three against other section champs is the State Champion,.....and deservedly so. But, to rationalize the concept that a human or a machine is not giving certain teams an advantage (an for what reason again?) in a seeding process is,......well,.....lets just say,.....agricultural.

P.S. My appologizes to all the farmers and gardners.

If as you say Knowlzee, the coaches don't know the teams well enough to seed, how could an advantage be given? You can't have it both ways.

Check out the "Pauly resigns...." thread. Appears (if true) Minnetonka, has some "trusted" committee members, making "decisions",....by the people,......and for the people. Just like gov't,....you know,.....making those "decisions" that have made America great.

Oh, for cying out loud, Neut. No comment. Get back to "work".

I'd like to buy a vowel

Speaking of work, I better do some.

It's been real (I think),....and it's been fun,.....and it's been REAL fun.

Knowlzee, you continue to ignore two huge things.
1. There are other ways of seeding than coaches voting.
2. Coaches can talk to other people.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, things will be seeded from now on. So continuing to argue for lack of seeding will get you no where. What you should be focusing on is the best way to seed. If you don't like having the coaches seed, offer up another way. Yes, you are right, no one will have seen all the teams, but the coaches don't live in a box. If Holy Angels had made it last year, Roseau's coach wouldn't be like "oh, I've never seen them play, I'll just put them in the middle." People hear things throughout the season, see stats, watch video, can talk to people, and many other things. The same argument can be made about section seeding. Yes, there is more teams that have played each other, usually, but there are still teams that you may have no idea about.

HShockeywatcher, may I call you "student athlete"?

Yes, there are many ways to seed. For example, the seed can be pushed into the soil, or........the seed can be placed on the ground, and covered with soil,.....probably some others, too.

Sure, coaches can read, too,......and look at film,......look at polls,......read MinnHock posts,.....pull names from at hat,.....guess,....or just fight for their section or favorite team. All a waste of time because it already is established, which sections play each other, on any given year from now until God comes back.

I am not going to color you a picture. I am too old and fat,....the crayon will break in my fingers.

P.S. I hope the "student athlete" is a better athlete, than he is a student,.....because nothing has been comprehended in this thread.

I can't stop you from calling me whatever you like, but if you read what I wrote, I said I was a student athlete. I have since lost my years of eligibility and have moved on the bigger and brighter things.

It's not a waste of time when it improves things, which it does.

If nothing has been comprehended in this thread, that is not a burden of mine, that would rest on your shoulders to figure out how to understand what you read.

HShockeywatcher wrote: If nothing has been comprehended in this thread, that is not a burden of mine, that would rest on your shoulders to figure out how to understand what you read.

Classic mathrunner!