HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:09 pm**

sounds like neither team deserved to win, which helps because now I dont feel sorry for Sartell in the least bit.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:25 pm**

As I figured kicked in the privates. You are from little falls, as you do know the history, so you have no room to talk as you know how some of the little falls parents have behaved in the past towards our parents and players. And you # 9 unless you know the facts keep your undesirable nose out of the little falls -fergus falls conversation. By the way how do you know mr redneck is not a mrs redneck ?

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:37 pm**

fivehole628.There are two sides to your story about the escorted fan,but I suppose you have no choice but to believe your boss, what other job could you get. As far as the ride home it was fine, we knew we won that game and we can have a beer on the bus, we had a designated driver. Oops... you can say what ever you want in public, this is the USA and I am proud to be from Fergus Falls, MN USA.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:06 pm**

redneck13 wrote:As I figured kicked in the privates. You are from little falls, as you do know the history, so you have no room to talk as you know how some of the little falls parents have behaved in the past towards our parents and players. And you # 9 unless you know the facts keep your undesirable nose out of the little falls -fergus falls conversation. By the way how do you know mr redneck is not a mrs redneck ?

my only beef with you is your first post belittling the fine young men from sartell. i stand by my statement that you are out of line to question their character and insinuate they played cheap and unfair. i disagree with that. i have tried to be diplomatic. you on the otherhand have belittled a young hockey team,justified questionable behavior by adults,because the other team apparently can be less than desireable. called my nose undesirable and questioned what kind of job a man can get in only 4 posts. i am learning more and more about your character with each post. dont worry though, i will take the high road, and not characterize all from ff,based on what i am hearing from you. p.s i never called you mr.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:36 pm**

And my only beef with you is that you got involved in the fergus falls -little falls history, which I believe you have no knowledge of. If you do then I need say no more.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:38 pm**

redneck13 wrote:fivehole628.There are two sides to your story about the escorted fan,but I suppose you have no choice but to believe your boss, what other job could you get. As far as the ride home it was fine, we knew we won that game and we can have a beer on the bus, we had a designated driver. Oops... you can say what ever you want in public, this is the USA and I am proud to be from Fergus Falls, MN USA.

No no i heard the whole story. The Sartell fan taunted him with a crying gesture. But that still leaves no reason to threaten someone physically. What other job could I get? Is this suppose to be a diss? I'm in college buddy.

And 1 beer? Sure maybe on the way home, but how bout on the way TO Sartell...?

Not trying to get on your case, just think it sets a bad example for your kids going to their games intoxicated... that's just my opinion though.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:48 pm**

Dont let one bad apple sour you on a whole fan base who is very proud of their team and you are the one who dissed everyone of us about the booze cruise remark. And there are two sides to every story !!!

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:05 pm**

I have no idea if the Fergus parents drink on the bus to games. If it did I suppose no other parents from other towns do this. I am absolutely sure that no Little Falls players, fans, parents, coaches, student managers...or other has EVER offended ANY Fergus Falls players, fans, coaches, student managers....or other... gag me buddy. There likely is a history, likely a reason for doing it. Never been to a hockey game,??? never heard the fans go back and forth????? try going once.

Answer to post on last page about puck hitting the ice in the crease and bouncing off goalie. The question is: Was the puck "dead" in the crease??

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:18 pm**

The refs made a mistake and I'm sure they feel horrible about it. I'm a ref and have made many mistakes and I feel bad about every single one of them. It really sucks knowing that you made a bad call, it really does and that can't be stressed enough. I'm sure these refs are WELL aware of what they did.

This brings up a very important point that has been mentioned a couple of times but it is worth mentioned again. COACHES need to know the rule book inside and out... it might have prevented this from happening, but it might not have, I don't know.

It is also a perfect example that the REFS HAVE to know the entire rule book (which is a lot to learn, there is a lot of stuff in there and it's not easy to learn even after 20 years of playing the game). Refs SHOULD know the entire rule book, especially at the high school level and especially if they are doing a section game.

It is very unfortunate that the game ended because of "human error". Anyway, what the heak was the Sartell kid thinking when he covered the puck?

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:20 pm**

redneck13 wrote:And my only beef with you is that you got involved in the fergus falls -little falls history, which I believe you have no knowledge of. If you do then I need say no more.

if you reread my post you would see that i said nothing about ff / lf history. i just said you started this discussion with your rant about sartell team. even if you are from venus you should have known that sombody would take offense to dissing sartell team.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:22 pm**

Hockey_fan11 wrote:
Trojanhorse wrote:I did not see the play, but the refs might be right.

If the puck went crossbar-goalie-net, it counts.

if the puck went Crossbar-crease-then goalie knocked it in (supplied the momentum of the puck into the net,) it was dead and is no goal.

The extreme example of "no goal" would be if the puck lay in the crease dead for several seconds and the goalie accidently kicked it in as he skated away. The most obvious example of "goal" is when it its the crossbar, then deflects off the goalie before it even hits the ice.

In gray-area cases, like this one seems to be, the refs have to decide if the puck was dead or not. Its a judgment call. NHL refs use video to get it right. High School refs, even in big games, have to do the best they can based on the very fast live action.

This was a penalty shot in sudden death of a playoff game. It must be on video somewhere! C-mon, parents, upload that baby to youtube so we can all have an opinon.

Trojan, this is what I was saying before, from where I was standing (along the glass at the penalty shot end) the puck hit the cross bar, came down outside the net, in the crease, rolled forward a few inches until it hit the goalie and bounced into the net. Had it went crossbar to goalie and in, it's a goal, but I saw it hit the ground first. I'm sure it was a judgement call on the refs part. All three officials got together and discussed it for quite a while before they confirmed the initial call of "no goal".

I also see no way MSHSL would overturn the outcome of a game, it would open a Pandora's Box, for instance, in another overtime game, 2 on 1 breakout, skater without the puck goes off sides, team scores and wins, ref misses the offsides, but dad has it on tape. Should they overturn this and pick up the game from that point on? Hate to use a soccer analogy but in the World Cup soccer qualifer, the ref missed a hand ball that led to France beating Ireland 2-1, call was clearly missed but did FIFA oveturn the game, NO. Or Joe Mauers hit against the Yankees in the playoffs that was clearly fair, but ruled foul. I'm sure we could all find many situations were a missed call may or may not have cost a team the win.

Many here are saying the refs did not know the rule, perhaps they knew the rules saw it like I did and made a judgement call. you can argue as long as you want whether or not their judgement was correct, but I don't think it's fair to say they did not no the rules.

It was a great game, both teams should be proud of their effort and I wish Sartell good luck Friday at the MAC against Alex, should be a great game.

i think you arent quite getting that this goal was "scored" in overtime. which would have ended the game. in your examples there was still more of the game to be played, so you cant assume the rest of the game. I wasnt at the game but everyone else seems to agree that the refs never disputed that the puck went in the net. in your examples the refs clearly missed a call by making a bad judgement. this was not a judgement call, but a case of not knowing the rule.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:46 pm**

I would just like to make a comment on the refs. They are human. They have families and in most cases children. They love the game so they chose to stay involved. A mistake is a mistake. I am not a ref but I know they dont come to games to get someone. They have morgages to pay, payments to make and food to put on the table for their families. They do this, yes for extra money but also for the love of the game. It was a brutal mistake but lets acnowledge that and move on. They did not come to get FF, it just happened. Yes it sucks but it is over. Whether we like it or not its a done deal. Feelings are a powerful thing but come on now, I think its time to let it go. I hope you all realize that even though everyone here has there own opinionand some dont get along, we are all somewhat alike---WE ALL LOVE HOCKEY.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:09 pm**

[quote="redneck13"]As I figured kicked in the privates. You are from little falls, as you do know the history, so you have no room to talk as you know how some of the little falls parents have behaved in the past towards our parents and players. And you # 9 unless you know the facts keep your undesirable nose out of the little falls -fergus falls conversation. By the way how do you know mr redneck is not a mrs redneck ?[/quote]

Great point, sorry I missed/assumed that, if you are a Mrs. Redneck, I apologize.

As far as history of these two teams, one does not need to be from either FF or LF to know. You just have to be a (follower) of the conference, or hint, hint section... I would agree that there are fans (specifically adults) everywhere who do not act like adults. They are pathetic examples for our kids. Yes they do exist in LF (I've seen it there) and unfortunately in every arena around the country, at every level.

And as far as how you (or better yet the kids) have been treated in games with LF in the past or with any other town, how YOU respond says a ton about YOUR character. Take the higher road as the adult. Be an example, and don't rip the character of 15-18 year old kids whom I'll assume you've never met.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:27 pm**

I can start a Dr. Phil thread for all you susans getting offended or saddened by some of these comments. This thread is about a "wrong call" not who slammed a beer or an angry fan who almost owned a guys face with a door....back to subject....IS ANYTHING GOING TO HAPPEN ABOUT THIS SITUATION?

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:52 pm**

SiouxRecruit wrote:I can start a Dr. Phil thread for all you susans getting offended or saddened by some of these comments. This thread is about a "wrong call" not who slammed a beer or an angry fan who almost owned a guys face with a door....back to subject....IS ANYTHING GOING TO HAPPEN ABOUT THIS SITUATION?

You bet. I would hope at a minimun every coaching staff would make a point to bring a current copy of the rule book to every game. How hard is that?

By the way, you misspelled susans, it's "Soiuxans".

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:00 pm**

Sounds like who cares who wins section 6A any more this is a much better topic.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:07 pm**

ice hacker wrote:Sounds like who cares who wins section 6A any more this is a much better topic.

I really don't anymore.

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:19 am**

KICKED-IN-THE-PRIVATES wrote:
SiouxRecruit wrote:I can start a Dr. Phil thread for all you susans getting offended or saddened by some of these comments. This thread is about a "wrong call" not who slammed a beer or an angry fan who almost owned a guys face with a door....back to subject....IS ANYTHING GOING TO HAPPEN ABOUT THIS SITUATION?
You bet. I would hope at a minimun every coaching staff would make a point to bring a current copy of the rule book to every game. How hard is that?

By the way, you misspelled susans, it's "Soiuxans".

No it's right

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:10 pm**

I got a question from you guys/gals.
This morning I was going though my email and I got an email from a buddy that said that the Minnesota High School League Granted Fergus Falls The win over Sartell. BUT Fergus Falls will not be able to continue in the play off?
Has anybody heard of anything like this

That in its self could make things interesting.

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:05 pm**

SCOUT 707 wrote:I got a question from you guys/gals.
This morning I was going though my email and I got an email from a buddy that said that the Minnesota High School League Granted Fergus Falls The win over Sartell. BUT Fergus Falls will not be able to continue in the play off?
Has anybody heard of anything like this That in its self could make things interesting.

Haven't heard anything yet.....that would be crazy

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:21 pm**

Just the way a hockey game goes. The hockey gods were not in the favor of FF on this night. Time to move on. It's only a game. Hockey is not life....GOLF is.

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:33 pm**

Doug, how right you are on the golf. What better way is there to become a professional at learning how to curse. In the same note I also heard about the FF team getting the win but it was never confirmed

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:19 pm**

redneck13 wrote:Dont let one bad apple sour you on a whole fan base who is very proud of their team and you are the one who dissed everyone of us about the booze cruise remark. And there are two sides to every story !!!

Alright

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:53 pm**

gobears80 wrote:It is quite obvious that the people who want this to be overturned do not have a complete grasp on what it would take to do so as well as the precedent that would be set. If in fact there is a "no Protest" rule that would have to be amended and if it were I'm pretty sure it could not influence any calls prior to the amendment or we would have protests coming out of the "woodwork". secondly, If you could protest a call I'm sure that the protest could not come from fans, parents, or even open letters from a sports announcer. The "no Protest" rule is in place for a reason and I respect the MSHSL for having it in place and standing firm on that rule. I also believe the MSHSL is already making adjustments so something like this wont happen again. This isn't something the MSHSL is ignoring and doesnt have the integrity to change. It is however, a governing body that is abiding by a set of rules that have been put in place for a very good reason.

The MSHSL has the rule in place for one reason, to save it's own butt. You're correct that this could open a can of worms and not all games would, could or should be overturned but it certain cases, such as this one, there is not reason that they can even review it. If it has some guts to do the right thing, not just here but in all cases, it very well could open itself up to to legal issues. But at least they would be fighting for something. Fighting for the right way to do things. Fighting for fairness.

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:57 pm**

Hockey_fan11 wrote:
Trojanhorse wrote:I did not see the play, but the refs might be right.

If the puck went crossbar-goalie-net, it counts.

if the puck went Crossbar-crease-then goalie knocked it in (supplied the momentum of the puck into the net,) it was dead and is no goal.

The extreme example of "no goal" would be if the puck lay in the crease dead for several seconds and the goalie accidently kicked it in as he skated away. The most obvious example of "goal" is when it its the crossbar, then deflects off the goalie before it even hits the ice.

In gray-area cases, like this one seems to be, the refs have to decide if the puck was dead or not. Its a judgment call. NHL refs use video to get it right. High School refs, even in big games, have to do the best they can based on the very fast live action.

This was a penalty shot in sudden death of a playoff game. It must be on video somewhere! C-mon, parents, upload that baby to youtube so we can all have an opinon.

Trojan, this is what I was saying before, from where I was standing (along the glass at the penalty shot end) the puck hit the cross bar, came down outside the net, in the crease, rolled forward a few inches until it hit the goalie and bounced into the net. Had it went crossbar to goalie and in, it's a goal, but I saw it hit the ground first. I'm sure it was a judgement call on the refs part. All three officials got together and discussed it for quite a while before they confirmed the initial call of "no goal".

I also see no way MSHSL would overturn the outcome of a game, it would open a Pandora's Box, for instance, in another overtime game, 2 on 1 breakout, skater without the puck goes off sides, team scores and wins, ref misses the offsides, but dad has it on tape. Should they overturn this and pick up the game from that point on? Hate to use a soccer analogy but in the World Cup soccer qualifer, the ref missed a hand ball that led to France beating Ireland 2-1, call was clearly missed but did FIFA oveturn the game, NO. Or Joe Mauers hit against the Yankees in the playoffs that was clearly fair, but ruled foul. I'm sure we could all find many situations were a missed call may or may not have cost a team the win.

Many here are saying the refs did not know the rule, perhaps they knew the rules saw it like I did and made a judgement call. you can argue as long as you want whether or not their judgement was correct, but I don't think it's fair to say they did not no the rules.

It was a great game, both teams should be proud of their effort and I wish Sartell good luck Friday at the MAC against Alex, should be a great game.

They ruled that forward progress had stopped. I agree that this would open a barrel of monkeys but your example is about a judgement call. They cannot and should not be overturned. The MSHSL says human error and that is the end of it but when a rule is ignored or gotten wrong(if that was the case) then they need to correct it.

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DID THE REFS ACTUALLY BLOW A GAME????