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Holy Cr p

complaining about POACHING desirable players (and by desirable you mean the Tier 1 players most of which have developed their skills through means over and above what they get in their association)

like you own them and have rights to them (that's not really the American way now is it)

when they have a choice, you will be competing for them. Your association will have to look within to change and compete with the Tier 1 teams and find ways to advance these players beyond making them their go to players and a carrot for their other players (what you should be doing right now and all along)

There will be no POACHING, only choices by those that should be in control (the players!)

SnowedIn wrote:Every top Boston League as well as 99% of all leagues run in the country are INSIDE USAHOCKEY. Without being INSIDE you cannot be a USAHOCKEY sanctioned team which means your team is unisured which means no other team can play you because they will be uninsured if they play a non sanctioned team and which means you will get no referees for your games because they will not be insured either in an unsanctioned event. No tournaments will allow a non sanctioned team in it either and that includes Canada because they have a reprocity agreement with each other and require docs to prove sanctioning. So any league worth its weight in salt in addition to those not, are INSIDE USAHOCKEY. Did you even know what INSIDE USAHOCKEY means?

When a Tier 1 league forms in MN during the all mighty highschool hockey season, it will be INSIDE USAHOCKEY - approved by and sanctioned by USAHOCKEY.

And realize that there are kids across the Twin Cities participating with the Fire for the reasons that have been cited but ignored by you on this thread. They are not all pinned into a corner. They want better development and they want to play with the rest of the country knows as Tier 1 competition, which is not a perfect system but better than what they have now.

Yes, I'm well aware of in vs. out of USA Hockey's jurisdiction. Read your post above and you'll realize you said Minnesota Made isn't worth its salt. Take it back!

My confusion surrounds from the tournament in April that allowed checking at all ages, down to 2003. We asked about this and were told the league also allows checking in the winter. Perhaps we were told wrong.

The EHF is one Boston-area league and the NEHL is another. If they are both USA Hockey registered then they can't allow checking so young.

My point holds. All these posts indicate that Minnesota Hockey needs to do this or that or else! Or else what? If there's a need for an alternative league offering Tier I caliber hockey in season someone will do it and it will thrive. Despite the challenges from rinks and in spite of the trouble finding opponents.

Unlike many that post saying change is imminent, I don't see anything happening any time soon.

Maybe I'm wrong.

O-townClown wrote:

SnowedIn wrote:Every top Boston League as well as 99% of all leagues run in the country are INSIDE USAHOCKEY. Without being INSIDE you cannot be a USAHOCKEY sanctioned team which means your team is unisured which means no other team can play you because they will be uninsured if they play a non sanctioned team and which means you will get no referees for your games because they will not be insured either in an unsanctioned event. No tournaments will allow a non sanctioned team in it either and that includes Canada because they have a reprocity agreement with each other and require docs to prove sanctioning. So any league worth its weight in salt in addition to those not, are INSIDE USAHOCKEY. Did you even know what INSIDE USAHOCKEY means?

When a Tier 1 league forms in MN during the all mighty highschool hockey season, it will be INSIDE USAHOCKEY - approved by and sanctioned by USAHOCKEY.

And realize that there are kids across the Twin Cities participating with the Fire for the reasons that have been cited but ignored by you on this thread. They are not all pinned into a corner. They want better development and they want to play with the rest of the country knows as Tier 1 competition, which is not a perfect system but better than what they have now.

Yes, I'm well aware of in vs. out of USA Hockey's jurisdiction. Read your post above and you'll realize you said Minnesota Made isn't worth its salt. Take it back!

My confusion surrounds from the tournament in April that allowed checking at all ages, down to 2003. We asked about this and were told the league also allows checking in the winter. Perhaps we were told wrong.

The EHF is one Boston-area league and the NEHL is another. If they are both USA Hockey registered then they can't allow checking so young.

My point holds. All these posts indicate that Minnesota Hockey needs to do this or that or else! Or else what? If there's a need for an alternative league offering Tier I caliber hockey in season someone will do it and it will thrive. Despite the challenges from rinks and in spite of the trouble finding opponents.

Unlike many that post saying change is imminent, I don't see anything happening any time soon.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Check the tournament site and look up the rules. Some spring tournaments out that way are based on NCAA rules which allow checking even at the mite age. All of those teams are INSIDE USAHOCKEY. You will see many of them participating in AAA tournaments during the regular season in Canada and the US and that means they are sanctioned by USAHockey.

No Political Connections wrote:

You missed the whole thing OTC. Either you don't want to face the facts or you are not used to people using that many multiple syllable words, not sure. I was NOT talking about letting the associations recruit players.

I have no problem facing fact. I have no problem with words that are longerer than what I normally uses. (Run-on sentences? Another story.)

I didn't miss anything. But you did miss my point. I wasn't talking about having clubs compete against associations. My point was simply that governance requires control. When an issue arises at states, who steps in to sort it out? Minnesota Hockey needs control or the whole system breaks down.

What I do see is they get blamed a lot for issues at the association level. Same here.

SnowedIn wrote: Check the tournament site and look up the rules. Some spring tournaments out that way are based on NCAA rules which allow checking even at the mite age. All of those teams are INSIDE USAHOCKEY. You will see many of them participating in AAA tournaments during the regular season in Canada and the US and that means they are sanctioned by USAHockey.

This was hosted by Minutemen Flames. Which is why I was so confused when we were told that their league allows checking in-season. I think the explanation is that what we were told was incorrect. (The person who told us was an NEHL family, and they seemed to know not a lot about the EHF.)

If your spending a lot of money on clinics at Minnesota made your kid can be on any team you want

bella wrote:If your spending a lot of money on clinics at Minnesota made your kid can be on any team you want

This is totally true.

[quote="MrBoDangles"][quote="O-townClown"][quote="MrBoDangles"]The thing you can't get through your thick skull is that a 2-3 tier 1 teams in MN would solve a lot of headaches for families. For the 97' kids that found a nice fit with the Fire there are at least 4 times that out there that would also like a option. The way it is now people are victims of a communist style governing body. In your way of thinking wouldn't it be a good thing for a dominant kid to move on so the next player could star.... Everyone would be happy!

I also think it's a riot that it's not a big deal that MINNESOTA HOCKEY'S REC LEAGUE is pulling away as many as 12 kids from some associations, at one level.............................................

I sure wish the MN Hockey governing body would move to Florida. [/quote]

I fully understand. I also have thought this through, which you haven't, to know that having one or two Tier I teams would pull the top players from the top associations as well, leaving out those you are trying to help.

Tier I status usually comes when a program works its way up. For example, the Atlanta Fire are Tier I this year. They were a very strong Tier II club. Who gets these Tier I clubs? How about making one a co-op between D6 teams and the other a co-op between Centennial and White Bear. How again does this help the super Silver Bay player that I've been told we need to do this for?

When Minnesota Hockey's governance comes to Florida, be sure to tell them to be active in running our affiliate as well. We definitely can use the help.

Minnesota Made is not under USA Hockey, so you are right. It isn't a real big deal on that level. Just like the tournament near Boston that allowed checking for the 2003 division this summer.[/quote]
The thing you should do is ask the Fire families if they're happy to have the fire option. Did they leave a situation they were not happy with? I would bet the farm........ How many more could be freed from the oppressive?




To sum it up, with options, families, can CHOOSE, the best route for their family, and player. It shouldn't be so third world.[/quote]


how many left because they felt pressured to do so, cough cough if you don't your not

[quote="Quasar"]I am waiting for someone to answer my question about the kid that is looking for somewhere to play because the High School Coach took 4 kids off his team. His dad would like to get him on an A team so he can continue to play at the level he's been playing at.

Ok ... Supporters of the Status quo, how about telling him what he can do for his kid. How about it O-Town, what do you think this dad should do about his situation??[/quote]

not sure of all, but most associations allow a waiver if your association is not fielding a A team. Now if they don't you can take it to the district director for an appeal. Just wanted to help you out.

I think if you add in the costs of travel to the 2-3 tournaments and the 4-5 "series" out of town ... you are looking at a nice increase in the fee well above association hockey.

Hotel $100 a night
Food $120 a day
Drink $ 20 a day

watching your kid skate against Green Bay *ahem* selects .... pointless

OTC, would the Florida tier 1 teams be able to hang with Minnesota's top 20 or 30 Squirt, or PeeWee teams? No reason other than curiosity...... Thanks in advance

MrBoDangles wrote:OTC, would the Florida tier 1 teams be able to hang with Minnesota's top 20 or 30 Squirt, or PeeWee teams? No reason other than curiosity...... Thanks in advance

Bo:

Tier I in Florida is at best erratic, at worst a mess.

Because we have mostly programs that are the equivalent of a small associations in your area, there's always an urge to get the better players together on one team. Our Tier II rules require that teams have no more than three players from "out-of-area" - defined as going to school within 60 miles of the team's home rink. (We live 41 miles from where my son plays, so drives like that aren't unusual.)

If you have more than three OOA players you can't be Tier II, so Tier I (there's a catch) or "Tournament" or "Rec" (loophole!) is how these teams get registered. You can form teams by drawing from several programs near Fort Lauderdale and around Tampa Bay and not have any OOA players, so there is a lot of complaining about these rules.

Anyway, the catch with Tier I is that our affiliate would like to see programs and not just single teams. To create a team essentially requires tearing apart a few others to land their best players, which goes against everything USA Hockey, Minnesota Hockey, Statewide Amateur Hockey of Florida, and all other ruling bodies want. Creating a program would mean building up hockey in an area.

Things break down real quick due to geography, just as you see in Minnesota with spring/summer teams. You can live in the wrong place, making it harder to be a part of these Tier I programs.

Presently we have three Tier I programs, up from two last year.

• Panther Alliance: this is formed by a "merger" of two programs in Broward County, the South Florida Golden Wolves and the Junior Panthers
  
  Everblades AAA: based in the Naples/Fort Myers area, they mostly have players from all over the state (and sometimes outside)
  
  Tampa Bay Lightning Alliance: our state has had the two teams in the South, with nothing in the North where you see weaker Tier II programs. The Gulf Coast Flames '95s won Pee Wee AA Nationals a few years ago...they were awesome. NHL player Brian Bradley has a son that he coaches and had one of the independent teams at AAA. These two joined under the umbrella organization and are Tier I this year. During their tryout, with aspirations of fielding as many as seven teams, they had no more! Special status was given this year to allow the Tier I program with just two teams, because if it was denied they would have thrown some slop together just to have three.

How do we know? Because the other organizations have been forced to field at least three teams and their results have been hit-or-miss. Which is why I'm giving you a back story when getting to the answer of your question. When teams are formed but they aren't really strong, there's just no reason to fly twice a month to Boston, Toronto, Chicago, and Detroit so you can say you played AAA.

Here are our state's best AAA teams:

'95 Flames - now the Tampa Bay Lightning Alliance U16, they should do well on a national level next season

'96 Lightning - Bradley's team also now under Lightning Alliance flag, should go a little over .500 playing against the best teams nationally (Lawton's son used to play on this team)

'98 Everblades AAA - this team has heavy sponsorship from one guy, so much that kids often play for free and they fly kids in from places like Texas and Pennsylvania to hook up for some tournaments...probably will have a national rank in the Top 10 this year?

'00 Lightning - As you know, Squirts are too young for Tier-anything. This is a top-level AAA team. Coaches are NHL players John Tucker and Michel Pivonka, who both have sons on the team. They were ranked #2 nationally last year.

So when you ask how these teams would fare against top association teams, the answer is that it depends. The '99 Everblades AAA isn't any good at all and one of their coaches supposedly bailed. The '01 Lightning have a blueprint like the '00 with Vezina Trophy winner Jim Carey coaching, but they don't have the top players (who stayed in their clubs) and won't be as dominant.

When these things go well, as in the '98 Blades or '00 'ning, the teams would easily hold their own or beat same-aged teams from Edina, Wayzata, White Bear, Woodbury, and anywhere else. Of course, you have to consider how much work it was to put these teams together.

You asked about Top 20 or 30. Once you get past the Top 5 or 10 at Pee Wees the level drops off a good bit. Our AAA or Tier I teams would usually play at that level. I know a disappointing year for the Everblades AAA is when their teams fall to 30 or so nationally versus Top 15. (Those rankings go by straight birth year.)

What everyone should realize regarding Tier I is that the superclubs out of Detroit aren't as super at Squirts. By Bantams these five teams have not only the best players in Michigan, but also some of the best players from the rest of the country. I know some that have gone there to billet for Bantams.

Minnesota could easily provide enough players to form two or three or five Tier I clubs that would all be among the Top 20 teams nationally. The big question is should they?

O-townClown wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:OTC, would the Florida tier 1 teams be able to hang with Minnesota's top 20 or 30 Squirt, or PeeWee teams? No reason other than curiosity...... Thanks in advance

Bo:

Tier I in Florida is at best erratic, at worst a mess.

Because we have mostly programs that are the equivalent of a small associations in your area, there's always an urge to get the better players together on one team. Our Tier II rules require that teams have no more than three players from "out-of-area" - defined as going to school within 60 miles of the team's home rink. (We live 41 miles from where my son plays, so drives like that aren't unusual.)

If you have more than three OOA players you can't be Tier II, so Tier I (there's a catch) or "Tournament" or "Rec" (loophole!) is how these teams get registered. You can form teams by drawing from several programs near Fort Lauderdale and around Tampa Bay and not have any OOA players, so there is a lot of complaining about these rules.

Anyway, the catch with Tier I is that our affiliate would like to see programs and not just single teams. To create a team essentially requires tearing apart a few others to land their best players, which goes against everything USA Hockey, Minnesota Hockey, Statewide Amateur Hockey of Florida, and all other ruling bodies want. Creating a program would mean building up hockey in an area.

Things break down real quick due to geography, just as you see in Minnesota with spring/summer teams. You can live in the wrong place, making it harder to be a part of these Tier I programs.

Presently we have three Tier I programs, up from two last year.

• Panther Alliance: this is formed by a "merger" of two programs in Broward County, the South Florida Golden Wolves and the Junior Panthers
  
  Everblades AAA: based in the Naples/Fort Myers area, they mostly have players from all over the state (and sometimes outside)
  
  Tampa Bay Lightning Alliance: our state has had the two teams in the South, with nothing in the North where you see weaker Tier II programs. The Gulf Coast Flames '95s won Pee Wee AA Nationals a few years ago...they were awesome. NHL player Brian Bradley has a son that he coaches and had one of the independent teams at AAA. These two joined under the umbrella organization and are Tier I this year. During their tryout, with aspirations of fielding as many as seven teams, they had no more! Special status was given this year to allow the Tier I program with just two teams, because if it was denied they would have thrown some slop together just to have three.

How do we know? Because the other organizations have been forced to field at least three teams and their results have been hit-or-miss. Which is why I'm giving you a back story when getting to the answer of your question. When teams are formed but they aren't really strong, there's just no reason to fly twice a month to Boston, Toronto, Chicago, and Detroit so you can say you played AAA.

Here are our state's best AAA teams:

'95 Flames - now the Tampa Bay Lightning Alliance U16, they should do well on a national level next season

'96 Lightning - Bradley's team also now under Lightning Alliance flag, should go a little over .500 playing against the best teams nationally (Lawton's son used to play on this team)

'98 Everblades AAA - this team has heavy sponsorship from one guy, so much that kids often play for free and they fly kids in from places like Texas and Pennsylvania to hook up for some tournaments...probably will have a national rank in the Top 10 this year?

'00 Lightning - As you know, Squirts are too young for Tier-anything. This is a top-level AAA team. Coaches are NHL players John Tucker and Michel Pivonka, who both have sons on the team. They were ranked #2 nationally last year.

So when you ask how these teams would fare against top association teams, the answer is that it depends. The '99 Everblades AAA isn't any good at all and one of their coaches supposedly bailed. The '01 Lightning have a blueprint like the '00 with Vezina Trophy winner Jim Carey coaching, but they don't have the top players (who stayed in their clubs) and won't be as dominant.

When these things go well, as in the '98 Blades or '00 'ning, the teams would easily hold their own or beat same-aged teams from Edina, Wayzata, White Bear, Woodbury, and anywhere else. Of course, you have to consider how much work it was to put these teams together.

You asked about Top 20 or 30. Once you get past the Top 5 or 10 at Pee Wees the level drops off a good bit. Our AAA or Tier I teams would usually play at that level. I know a disappointing year for the Everblades AAA is when their teams fall to 30 or so nationally versus Top 15. (Those rankings go by straight birth year.)

What everyone should realize regarding Tier I is that the superclubs out of Detroit aren't as super at Squirts. By Bantams these five teams have not only the best players in Michigan, but also some of the best players from the rest of the country. I know some that have gone there to billet for Bantams.

Minnesota could easily provide enough players to form two or three or five Tier I clubs that would all be among the Top 20 teams nationally. The big question is should they?

Very interesting to read about the the Florida scene. What are the total participation numbers again?

O-man you and I both know that Mn hockey is as pure as youth hockey gets.

Bo, last year I think we were at about 385 for registered Mites (7&8 ). USA Hockey registration is free up through age 6, so it isn't the best gauge to look that young.

I have a report that measures ages 4-8, which gets pretty tricky.

This year:

• There are 12 Mite teams (7 & 8 ) in the state's two travel leagues.
  
  There are 24 Squirt teams (9 & 10) in our three leagues, plus two AAA teams playing up at Pee Wee A.
  
  There are 26 Pee Wee teams (11 & 12) in our three leagues, which includes those two Squirt teams. Two other PW teams play independently because they are Tier I.
  
  There are 23 Bantam teams (13 & 14), plus three AAA teams.

While part of the drop is because kids haven't yet become as serious as they will at Mites, we also are facing declines.

Doubtful that we have 600 registered players at any level. Figure 26 x 15 - 390 and then add the in-house players. Hard for me to get a read on the in-house since so many facilities don't really offer much. (Our rink has 12 & Under and Teen divisions, which allows every one to play if they want.)

Your son might be fortunate to play Hockey in Florida......... The training must be top notch.
Hard to believe, with only a thousand traveling age players that Florida can put out three tier 1's and a bunch of tier 2's. Only combining Wayzata, Anoka, and Forest Lake's numbers together I come up with all of Florida's.......

How's the housing market in Florida? Looking for a Minnesota neighbor?

98 FL Everblades Goalie this year was the 98 Fire Goalie last year. How's that for Out of Area.

MrBoDangles wrote:Your son might be fortunate to play Hockey in Florida......... The training must be top notch.
Hard to believe, with only a thousand traveling age players that Florida can put out three tier 1's and a bunch of tier 2's. Only combining Wayzata, Anoka, and Forest Lake's numbers together I come up with all of Florida's.......

How's the housing market in Florida? Looking for a Minnesota neighbor?

Be sure to buy one right next to an ice rink. Or better yet, rent. That way you could move if you pick the wrong place your first year.

Our participation is real low, but the paradox is that those kids that want to play can get on the ice as much as they want. And there is no better place to beat the heat. I really want my son to be off in the summer, but the rinks are open and there's always something going on. We cut back rather that cut out hockey.

I'm from the "let them play" school of thought and prefer "skate n' shoot" sessions and summer Pond Hockey to the formal training. Private lessons one-on-one with an instructor just don't look fun to me.

Like I said, a lot of work goes into those Tier I teams. And each program can't necessarily field a team for each birth year.

The funny thing I observe in our state's youth hockey is that the most skilled players come from the equivalents of the Silver Bays and North Branches. These kids are so much better than the others on their team that the coach kind of lets them do their things. I went to an Edina youth game last year and all I saw were girls that had become experts in changing on the fly. It was a joke.

I know you don't want to hear it, but growing up in a small community isn't a bad thing. I was just with Panthers television analyst Bill Lindsay. His home town is just 3,000 people. I don't think he played elsewhere until he was a Bantam.

Task Force 34 wrote:98 FL Everblades Goalie this year was the 98 Fire Goalie last year. How's that for Out of Area.

Wow! Not a surprise, the '98 team is pretty unique. I guess the Orlando-area (4 hours away) kid needed some help.

So I took my Level II coaching cert this summer in Florida and met a Wisconsin Fire parent. From St. Louis.

WHAT.

O-townClown wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:Your son might be fortunate to play Hockey in Florida......... The training must be top notch.
Hard to believe, with only a thousand traveling age players that Florida can put out three tier 1's and a bunch of tier 2's. Only combining Wayzata, Anoka, and Forest Lake's numbers together I come up with all of Florida's.......

How's the housing market in Florida? Looking for a Minnesota neighbor?

Be sure to buy one right next to an ice rink. Or better yet, rent. That way you could move if you pick the wrong place your first year.

Our participation is real low, but the paradox is that those kids that want to play can get on the ice as much as they want. And there is no better place to beat the heat. I really want my son to be off in the summer, but the rinks are open and there's always something going on. We cut back rather that cut out hockey.

I'm from the "let them play" school of thought and prefer "skate n' shoot" sessions and summer Pond Hockey to the formal training. Private lessons one-on-one with an instructor just don't look fun to me.

Like I said, a lot of work goes into those Tier I teams. And each program can't necessarily field a team for each birth year.

The funny thing I observe in our state's youth hockey is that the most skilled players come from the equivalents of the Silver Bays and North Branches. These kids are so much better than the others on their team that the coach kind of lets them do their things. I went to an Edina youth game last year and all I saw were girls that had become experts in changing on the fly. It was a joke.

I know you don't want to hear it, but growing up in a small community isn't a bad thing. I was just with Panthers television analyst Bill Lindsay. His home town is just 3,000 people. I don't think he played elsewhere until he was a Bantam.

We could just car pool.... Have they cleaned the beaches yet? Do they frown on big guys in speedos?

MrBoDangles wrote:Your son might be fortunate to play Hockey in Florida......... The training must be top notch.
Hard to believe, with only a thousand traveling age players that Florida can put out three tier 1's and a bunch of tier 2's. Only combining Wayzata, Anoka, and Forest Lake's numbers together I come up with all of Florida's.......

How's the housing market in Florida? Looking for a Minnesota neighbor?

Could Anoka, Wayzata, and Forest Lake put three tier 1's and a bunch of tier 2's on the ice? Could they compete with the Florida teams? Not even close.......... Anoka Squirt A's verses Florida Everblades or St. Louis Jr Blues would be a joke!

The numbers clearly show that Florida's development model is light years ahead of Minnesota's winter model. The hard part is figuring out what changes should be made............

The numbers clearly show that Florida's development model is light years ahead of Minnesota's winter model. The hard part is figuring out what changes should be made............

It is not a linear relationship-meaning just because those towns have much greater numbers than in FLA, it does not mean the Minnesota creates great players at the same ratio. If you are playing hockey in a non-hockey area, you need greater resources and probably need to show some promise before mom and dad lay out the cash. In Minnesota, average and below average hockey talents can still play the game with out spending a lot of money, hence higher participation. You need to show promise early in those areas, so a lot of kids don't even try or quit early.

The late bloomer in Minnesota has a much better chance of becoming a very good hockey player since they can still participate at their current skill level, and not quit because they can't compete with the best at 10 years of age. That is what ADM is trying to achieve, increase participation, play at your level and develop a base, then hopefully the will and passion are there when puberty hits. This should produce more great players in the long run since the late bloomers are still in the game.

That being said, I personally think Tier 1 in MN should be an option(this is America), but not sure if it will make much of a difference in the end. All of Minnesota's best players have the opportunity to play at a high level, so having Tier 1 would yield diminishing returns when it comes to "NHL Caliber" players being produced.

sorno82 wrote:

The numbers clearly show that Florida's development model is light years ahead of Minnesota's winter model. The hard part is figuring out what changes should be made............

It is not a linear relationship-meaning just because those towns have much greater numbers than in FLA, it does not mean the Minnesota creates great players at the same ratio. If you are playing hockey in a non-hockey area, you need greater resources and probably need to show some promise before mom and dad lay out the cash. In Minnesota, average and below average hockey talents can still play the game with out spending a lot of money, hence higher participation. You need to show promise early in those areas, so a lot of kids don't even try or quit early.

The late bloomer in Minnesota has a much better chance of becoming a very good hockey player since they can still participate at their current skill level, and not quit because they can't compete with the best at 10 years of age. That is what ADM is trying to achieve, increase participation, play at your level and develop a base, then hopefully the will and passion are there when puberty hits. This should produce more great players in the long run since the late bloomers are still in the game.

That being said, I personally think Tier 1 in MN should be an option(this is America), but not sure if it will make much of a difference in the end. All of Minnesota's best players have the opportunity to play at a high level, so having Tier 1 would yield diminishing returns when it comes to "NHL Caliber" players being produced.

Those three towns have the same Hockey numbers as all of Florida.


- So when they come in to sign up as mini mites they are already cut out of a great athlete mold? I'm sure if you you pooled MN and FLA 4-6 year olds together you would see no difference. For what your saying to be correct Florida would have to be starting out with 500 times the mites they do to work out the diamond they get by traveling age. You might not want to believe it , but it's the training and competition.

-I forget the story about the great one that played c hockey at "puberty". D-1 schools are getting verbals from kids at "puberty".

- Why would tier 1 have diminishing returns? Tier 1 spreading through the country has had negative returns?

O-townClown wrote:Bo, last year I think we were at about 385 for registered Mites (7&8 ). USA Hockey registration is free up through age 6, so it isn't the best gauge to look that young.

I have a report that measures ages 4-8, which gets pretty tricky.

This year:

• There are 12 Mite teams (7 & 8 ) in the state's two travel leagues.
  
  There are 24 Squirt teams (9 & 10) in our three leagues, plus two AAA teams playing up at Pee Wee A.
  
  There are 26 Pee Wee teams (11 & 12) in our three leagues, which includes those two Squirt teams. Two other PW teams play independently because they are Tier I.
  
  There are 23 Bantam teams (13 & 14), plus three AAA teams.

While part of the drop is because kids haven't yet become as serious as they will at Mites, we also are facing declines.

Doubtful that we have 600 registered players at any level. Figure 26 x 15 - 390 and then add the in-house players. Hard for me to get a read on the in-house since so many facilities don't really offer much. (Our rink has 12 & Under and Teen divisions, which allows every one to play if they want.)

Here's the numbers.....