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Bjugstad theoretically didn't play a senior year....or was that a junior year.

BodyShots wrote:Bjugstad theoretically didn't play a senior year....or was that a junior year.

He played his senior and junior years together! I believe, officially for the records, he skipped his junior season. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been eligible for the Mr. Hockey award.

BodyShots wrote:Bjugstad theoretically didn't play a senior year....or was that a junior year.

Ness made the list already, and I think he did the same thing.

Scott Bloom at #21

Steve Pokey Trachsel checks in at #20. He's the third Duluth Cathedral player (along with Randolph & Hoene) to make the list.

They certainly did a good job including players from Hill & DC that were standouts on the private side before those schools joined the publics.

He was one of the "unknowns" to me. I think there are 2-3 more and the rest will be the guys I listed in some order.

O-townClown wrote:Steve Pokey Trachsel checks in at #20. He's the third Duluth Cathedral player (along with Randolph & Hoene) to make the list.

The story mistakenly refers to his Duluth Cathedral coach as "Dennis Genereau" - his actual name was Del Genereau:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Delbert-G ... 1346464133

I didn't expect Rau to go Top 20 when this all began. Top 40 or 50 maybe. But this would truly be elite company.

I have a hard time seeing how rau gets ahead of scott bloom, and rau makes top 20 and guys like ryan kraft, erik westrum, dan carlson, jeff taffe and dan welch probably won't even make the list. I think they have done an incredible job, but there are definitely gonna be some guys who deserve to make it who aren't.

Sats81 wrote:I have a hard time seeing how rau gets ahead of scott bloom, and rau makes top 20 and guys like ryan kraft, erik westrum, dan carlson, jeff taffe and dan welch probably won't even make the list. I think they have done an incredible job, but there are definitely gonna be some guys who deserve to make it who aren't.

I don't see how Chris Locker makes the list and Rau doesn't. No way. Obviously Spe will be on it with Locker being there. Rau has to be on it.

O-townClown wrote:

The Exiled One wrote:I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Nick Bjugstad. It makes me wonder if neither Nick nor Kyle Rau will make the list at all.

If Kyle Rau isn't on the list, why have one? He played on two state title winners, carried more than his share of the load as a senior, and provided some of the most memorable moments in both the Section and State finals.

I agree he should be on the list but to be fair memorable moments is not a catagory on which they get points on and state titles is only out of a possible 10 i think, and "If Kyle Rau isn't on the list, why have one?" maybe because there are lots of other talented players this state has produced

green4 wrote:I agree he should be on the list but to be fair memorable moments is not a catagory on which they get points on and state titles is only out of a possible 10 i think, and "If Kyle Rau isn't on the list, why have one?" maybe because there are lots of other talented players this state has produced

Have you read the criteria?

Points awarded on players’ overall impact and how he compared to other players from the same era. Was he a leader both on the ice and off? Did he make the players around him better? How many seasons did he play on the varsity? How tough was his competition? How did he perform in the playoffs? Was he able to raise his level of play in the postseason? If he was a defenseman, how did he perform against the state’s top teams and forwards? Did he add anything offensively? If he was a forward, was he skilled at both ends of the ice?

Last season's Section 6A final went to a second overtime. How did the game end? Kyle Rau scored.

Pounded like a rag doll all game, he was relentless in the state championship. Here's a newspaper account of the game: http://mnsun.com/articles/2011/03/13/lo ... al.spo.txt

Memorable moments like this are what the list is all about and his performance was one for the ages. Going off the criteria, he was racking up points game by game in pinball-like fashion. All he did throughout the playoff run was make plays. Memorable moments pretty much covers the categories.

O-townClown wrote:

green4 wrote:I agree he should be on the list but to be fair memorable moments is not a catagory on which they get points on and state titles is only out of a possible 10 i think, and "If Kyle Rau isn't on the list, why have one?" maybe because there are lots of other talented players this state has produced

Have you read the criteria?

Points awarded on players’ overall impact and how he compared to other players from the same era. Was he a leader both on the ice and off? Did he make the players around him better? How many seasons did he play on the varsity? How tough was his competition? How did he perform in the playoffs? Was he able to raise his level of play in the postseason? If he was a defenseman, how did he perform against the state’s top teams and forwards? Did he add anything offensively? If he was a forward, was he skilled at both ends of the ice?

Last season's Section 6A final went to a second overtime. How did the game end? Kyle Rau scored.

Pounded like a rag doll all game, he was relentless in the state championship. Here's a newspaper account of the game: http://mnsun.com/articles/2011/03/13/lo ... al.spo.txt

Memorable moments like this are what the list is all about and his performance was one for the ages. Going off the criteria, he was racking up points game by game in pinball-like fashion. All he did throughout the playoff run was make plays. Memorable moments pretty much covers the categories.

i disagree, i dont think memorable moments cover all of the categories it probably helps the score but, if thats how it worked they would have kids from games like the 2 goalies from the 5 OT game with Duluth east and AV and other memorable games like that, im not saying Rau didn't have a memorable state game, heck he would be in it if they graded it like that but they don't do it like that

Chorske at #19. The writeup certainly captures career of the player I remember. The stories are very well done.

O-townClown wrote:Chorske at #19. The writeup certainly captures career of the player I remember. The stories are very well done.

I have not seen Tom Hirsch's name from Mpls Patrick Henry on the list yet, was starting to think that he might not get in the top 100. If Chorske is 19, I would think Tom would be higher than him.

O-townClown wrote:Chorske at #19. The writeup certainly captures career of the player I remember. The stories are very well done.

I totally agree, and can appreciate how much work was involved in putting all the facts and figures together on 100 individual players, plus developing their stories and making them fun and interesting to read - all at the rate of one per day.

I also like how they developed an objective scoring system in advance and how they are sticking to it. Makes is a lot harder to argue that "Player A was way better and should be ranked way higher than Player B".

(although us fans can still argue otherwise )

NearWestSide wrote:

O-townClown wrote:Chorske at #19. The writeup certainly captures career of the player I remember. The stories are very well done.

I have not seen Tom Hirsch's name from Mpls Patrick Henry on the list yet, was starting to think that he might not get in the top 100. If Chorske is 19, I would think Tom would be higher than him.

Wouldn't surprise me and would be a quality choice. Here are some remaining candidates...

Mike Antonovich
Henry Boucha
Aaron Broten
Neal Broten
Ben Clymer
Mike Crowley
Tom Hirsch
Willard Ikola
Phil Housley
John Matchefts
John Mayasich
George Pelawa
Johnny Pohl
Kyle Rau
Gary Sargent
Tim Sheehy
Dave Spehar

That's 17 of 18. Anybody else?

I would think Dan Trebil would be on the list before Ben Clymer if we are putting the majority of the emphasis on HS career. What about Aaron Miskovich, Grand Rapids? I am really suprised we haven't seen more of the stars from Grand Rapids from the mid to late 70s and early 80s. Think there has been 3 Grand Rapids guys: Rothstein, Baker and Jon Casey. What about Goligoski? He is certainly top 100 worthy. Think Matt Cullen is the only Moorhead guy who made the list...Jefferson has had 7 I believe: Tony Bianchi, Nick Checco, Tom Kurvers, Tom Pederson, Mark Parrish, Jay North, Joe Bianchi. Obviously Crowley will make the list with the possibility of Clymer and Trebil being left..

Something to consider:

Edina won the state title in 1969 and 1971. Edina East won in 1974. They starteda run as a tournament regular in 1967.

67 - 19-0-1, went 2 & Out
68 - 15-3-2, went 2 & Out
69 - 20-1, won 1st state title in OT over Warroad
70 - 19-0-1, lost in state final to Southwest
71 - 15-2-3, won state title over Roseau
72 - 22-0-1, consolation champions
73 - 20-1-2, lost to I-Falls & SW in OT, thumped Bemidji (as East)
74 - 21-0, won state title rather easily (as East)

Bill Nyrop and Bob Krieger graduated in 1970. Craig Norwich graduated in 1974. Mike Lauen, Paul Ranheim, and Wally Chapman are the only Edina guys listed so far. Dan Carlson (1997), Pete Hankinson (1986), and Dave Maley (1982) all played on state championship teams. Tom Nevers (1990) is legendary. Maybe it is hard to figure out which of these guys gets named to the Top 100 list because there are a lot of heralded Edina guys, unlike being the best player ever from Patrick Henry, Babbitt or Red Wing.

Edina, one of the most respected programs in the state, certainly has more than three guys mentioned. Someone told me Krieger was three-time All-State. (Maybe it was All-Tourney.)

I think a strong case can be made for more Edina guys. Trying to figure out who these last three guys are, I've taken a closer look. I'm guessing one or two, possibly even all three, are from the Hornets.

Schools with the most Top 100 players:

Int'l Falls & Jefferson have 8.
Eveleth & Warroad have 7.
Roseau has 5.
Hill-Murray, Duluth Cathedral, and Grand Rapids have 3.
Southwest, Duluth East, Roosevelt, John Marshall, Hibbing, Richfield, Johnson, Burnsville, Eden Prairie, and South St. Paul have 2.

Edina is a 3.

O-townClown wrote:Schools with the most Top 100 players:

Int'l Falls & Jefferson have 8.
Eveleth & Warroad have 7.
Roseau has 5.
Hill-Murray, Duluth Cathedral, and Grand Rapids have 3.
Southwest, Duluth East, Roosevelt, John Marshall, Hibbing, Richfield, Johnson, Burnsville, Eden Prairie, and South St. Paul have 2.

Edina is a 3.

I was wondering about this. It certainly shows they're paying a lot of attention to those early teams, which is great for teaching younger people like myself about the history of the game.

That raises the question--are these the 100 best players relative to their era, or the 100 best players, period? I'm guessing it's the former. If it's the latter, and we assume the quality of the game has improved over time (which it appears to, in watching old film), should we give more bias to more recent players? More recent players also faced longer odds at making it to D-1 or the NHL as hockey expanded throughout the country. Perhaps there should be some way to adjust for that?

Just a fw thoughts. I'd be curious to see a breakdown of the top 100 by decade as well.

karl(east) wrote:That raises the question--are these the 100 best players relative to their era, or the 100 best players, period? I'm guessing it's the former.

Correct, it's the former - what each accomplished when he played, not how they compare to players of a different era.

karl(east) wrote:If it's the latter, and we assume the quality of the game has improved over time (which it appears to, in watching old film), should we give more bias to more recent players?

This would introduce to much subjectivity into the judging process, and would not be fair to those who played years ago. There is no question that the teams of today would absolutely crush the teams of 30-50 years ago, but the top players/athletes from back then would arguably be just as good as today's best players IF they would have gotten the same amount of indoor ice time, the same level of competition pretty much year around, the same off-ice training techniques, etc.

karl(east) wrote:More recent players also faced longer odds at making it to D-1 or the NHL as hockey expanded throughout the country. Perhaps there should be some way to adjust for that?

I think it depends on how far back you go. There was a time when there were only 6 NHL teams, and there was a real bias against American players. In fact there were very few non-Canadians (even Europeans) who made NHL rosters. Plus there were not nearly as many D1 teams back then either, so in general there weren't nearly as many opportunities for U.S. high school kids to play at the next level than today. Many of yesterday's D1 teams were made up of almost all Canadians, teams like Denver, Michigan Tech, UMD, North Dakota and most Eastern schools were almost all Canadian. Teams like Minnesota and Boston College were the exception.

MNHockeyFan wrote:

karl(east) wrote:That raises the question--are these the 100 best players relative to their era, or the 100 best players, period? I'm guessing it's the former.

Correct, it's the former - what each accomplished when he played, not how they compare to players of a different era.

karl(east) wrote:If it's the latter, and we assume the quality of the game has improved over time (which it appears to, in watching old film), should we give more bias to more recent players?

This would introduce to much subjectivity into the judging process, and would not be fair to those who played years ago. There is no question that the teams of today would absolutely crush the teams of 30-50 years ago, but the top players/athletes from back then would arguably be just as good as today's best players IF they would have gotten the same amount of indoor ice time, the same level of competition pretty much year around, the same off-ice training techniques, etc.

karl(east) wrote:More recent players also faced longer odds at making it to D-1 or the NHL as hockey expanded throughout the country. Perhaps there should be some way to adjust for that?

I think it depends on how far back you go. There was a time when there were only 6 NHL teams, and there was a real bias against American players. In fact there were very few non-Canadians (even Europeans) who made NHL rosters. Plus there were not nearly as many D1 teams back then either, so in general there weren't nearly as many opportunities for U.S. high school kids to play at the next level than today. Many of yesterday's D1 teams were made up of almost all Canadians, teams like Denver, Michigan Tech, UMD, North Dakota and most Eastern schools were almost all Canadian. Teams like Minnesota and Boston College were the exception.

Makes sense--getting it right would probably involve a lot of math on probablilities of making it to the next level in a given era. I suppose the best strategy in the end is to make sure they have roughly the same number of players from each decade. As long as they're aware that it's a lot easier to be a dominant, star player in a smaller league. While I think John Mayasich should be #1, I think a hypothetical player who surpasses him won't need to match his numbers.

O-townClown wrote:I think a strong case can be made for more Edina guys. Trying to figure out who these last three guys are, I've taken a closer look. I'm guessing one or two, possibly even all three, are from the Hornets.

Good call, Bill Nyrop is No. 18.

http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/news_article ... _id=359644

I would guess Hirsch and Clymer won't make it, they were obviously great players, but not as dominant as the last 5-6 def on the list.

This may cause a ruckus, but I'm starting to think Pelawa isn't going to make it either. I could certainly be wrong, but I can't see them assigning Big George 171 points for his high school career, compared to what the guys so far have been awarded (Chorske the highest so far-- 165 for high school). As legendary as he was, Big George only had 55 points as a senior.

My guesses are: Craig Norwich, Paul Holmgren and Ken Yackel. Not only all dominant high school players, but they'll probably all get the 4-5 bonus points for post high school.

Guessing and arguing are half the fun of lists like this, and I think overall they've done a fantastic job.

and I stand corrected! Big George at #17