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If this is really about getting all (weaker) teams a state tournament experience......?

sorno82 wrote:

If this is really about getting all (weaker) teams a state tournament experience......?

No, it is about trying to correct the disparities in the current structure that were necessitated by the imbalance created by mega associations.

It is no different than HS right now. You have AA, A JGA, JGB. 4 state tourneys for HS students based on talent level and size.

Nothing is going to change your mind Dangles, so I am not going to try. Just my opinion that we need to give it a try and see what happens. Worst case is that more kids get to play more hockey next year. Not a bad downside.

MrBoDangles wrote:

sorno82 wrote:Need to give this a shot. The reality with the previous set-up is that the "B" champions in Peewee and Bantam were really middle of the pack "A" teams. On the "A" level, the balance of power was centered primarily on metro area large associations.

This new proposal offers some distinct advantages to many kids. There will be 64 more teams play an extra week (32 Bantam, 32 Peewee), with 16 additional teams getting to play in state. Not sure how that can hurt kids. Also, the "B" champion will truly be a "B"team. It will take some time to sort through the AA/A district play and association sponsored tourneys, but it will get worked out.

No one can claim success or failure of the experiment until you actually conduct the experiment. In the mean time, over 900 kids get to play in a regional tourney that would not have before, and 225 kids will get to play in a state tourney that would not have before.

Plus the top teams will still get to play other top teams without having a dozen or so forced blowouts in district play. Minnesota Hockey had to do this due to the dominance of the huge associations at the A and B level. This should level the playing field without watering down the top teams.

Couldn't they just have had a state tournament for teams in the upper half of district standings and another tournament for the teams in the lower(standings will determine what tournament you play in) half? Probably would have saved all the headaches that are to come with this AA/A brain fart.....

If this is really about getting all (weaker) teams a state tournament experience......?

MrBoDangles wrote:

sorno82 wrote:

If this is really about getting all (weaker) teams a state tournament experience......?

No, it is about trying to correct the disparities in the current structure that were necessitated by the imbalance created by mega associations.

It is no different than HS right now. You have AA, A JGA, JGB. 4 state tourneys for HS students based on talent level and size.

Nothing is going to change your mind Dangles, so I am not going to try. Just my opinion that we need to give it a try and see what happens. Worst case is that more kids get to play more hockey next year. Not a bad downside.

You will have less players after many quit.

You'll see this happen at mid size associations that go AA and then B(the 17# 18# 19# kids).

spin-o-rama wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:

sorno82 wrote: No, it is about trying to correct the disparities in the current structure that were necessitated by the imbalance created by mega associations.

It is no different than HS right now. You have AA, A JGA, JGB. 4 state tourneys for HS students based on talent level and size.

Nothing is going to change your mind Dangles, so I am not going to try. Just my opinion that we need to give it a try and see what happens. Worst case is that more kids get to play more hockey next year. Not a bad downside.

You will have less players after many quit.

You'll see this happen at mid size associations that go AA and then B(the 17# 18# 19# kids).

Why would more kids quit with the new levels? Associations have 1 more level to slot their teams than last year. If they do it right, kids should have a better experience overall.
There's too much Chicken Little going on. Let's see how it plays out.

BBgunner wrote:Bo- Medium sized Associations Can remain A then B1. And lets be fair here B1 is still B1. It is taking the Mega Associations Upper B1 teams and Smaller associations playing b1 instead of A and moving them to A therefor mid associations, mega, and small associations can field a very competitive B1 league. Not 4 or 5 Mega and smalls at the top and 12 others below them. Now its those 12 teams in what should be an even balance more competitive league. Just my opinion but once it all gets started it will be up to the Associations to properly place the teams. If done right we should see some results by mid season of if its working or not.
And as long as the A/AA plays the unbalanced schedule but play against each other (my opinion) This is a huge step in the right direction for development.

MrBoDangles wrote:How many medium size associations in District 2 are playing A and B-1......? *Almost all are playing AA and don't have the talent to also have an A team.

You don't think 17-32 will have a problem when 1-16 are two levels higher....? Have you ever been around Hockey folks.....?

spin-o-rama wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:How many medium size associations in District 2 are playing A and B-1......? *Almost all are playing AA and don't have the talent to also have an A team.

You don't think 17-32 will have a problem when 1-16 are two levels higher....? Have you ever been around Hockey folks.....?

Then they should tell the association to register the team as A. This would not be a MH problem, but an association/parent problem.

In your scenario the 17-32 talent fits the B1 level, the association registers them at B1, and yet somehow MH is destroying these kids' desire to play. That's quite the grind you're putting on your ax.

BBgunner wrote:I am not as familiar with D2 so I will plead the 5th. I am however familiar with D10. So I will use this as an example, and maybe in D10 this works but in D2 it will not. Keep in mind D10 was the AA test pilot last year...

Irondale- would be A, B1 this year last year B1 and B2 at Bantam
Mora- would be A and B2 probably
Blaine- AA and A B1 and B2 last year was A B1 B1 and B2
CL- A and B2 maybe a B1 there second group is pretty tough
Pine City- B1 only if numbers are down
Andover- AA A B1 B2
ER- AA A B1 B2
Anoka- AA A B1 or maybe a B2 instead
SLP- A b1 or b2
Camb/Isanti- A and B1 prob
Champlin Park- AA A B1
Centennial- AA A B1 B2
North Branch- A and B2
Princeton- A and B1
Rogers- AA A B1
St Francis- A and B2

OK this is bantam level and all guesses, of course without knowing who is going to what level for sure it is impossible to be right.
I am not sure how the model works in D2 or any other district but I would like to think in D10 it should help competition.

MrBoDangles wrote:

spin-o-rama wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:How many medium size associations in District 2 are playing A and B-1......? *Almost all are playing AA and don't have the talent to also have an A team.

You don't think 17-32 will have a problem when 1-16 are two levels higher....? Have you ever been around Hockey folks.....?

Then they should tell the association to register the team as A. This would not be a MH problem, but an association/parent problem.

In your scenario the 17-32 talent fits the B1 level, the association registers them at B1, and yet somehow MH is destroying these kids' desire to play. That's quite the grind you're putting on your ax.

I'm saying that it's hard enough when a kid barely misses making the top team. And now they'll have to live with playing two levels back?

"Tell them to register the team at A" Do you not understand that the new AA is creating the "problem" that you describe?

BBgunner wrote:I am not as familiar with D2 so I will plead the 5th. I am however familiar with D10. So I will use this as an example, and maybe in D10 this works but in D2 it will not. Keep in mind D10 was the AA test pilot last year...

Irondale- would be A, B1 this year last year B1 and B2 at Bantam
Mora- would be A and B2 probably
Blaine- AA and A B1 and B2 last year was A B1 B1 and B2
CL- A and B2 maybe a B1 there second group is pretty tough
Pine City- B1 only if numbers are down
Andover- AA A B1 B2
ER- AA A B1 B2
Anoka- AA A B1 or maybe a B2 instead
SLP- A b1 or b2
Camb/Isanti- A and B1 prob
Champlin Park- AA A B1
Centennial- AA A B1 B2
North Branch- A and B2
Princeton- A and B1
Rogers- AA A B1
St Francis- A and B2

OK this is bantam level and all guesses, of course without knowing who is going to what level for sure it is impossible to be right.
I am not sure how the model works in D2 or any other district but I would like to think in D10 it should help competition.

spin-o-rama wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:

spin-o-rama wrote: Then they should tell the association to register the team as A. This would not be a MH problem, but an association/parent problem.

In your scenario the 17-32 talent fits the B1 level, the association registers them at B1, and yet somehow MH is destroying these kids' desire to play. That's quite the grind you're putting on your ax.

I'm saying that it's hard enough when a kid barely misses making the top team. And now they'll have to live with playing two levels back?

"Tell them to register the team at A" Do you not understand that the new AA is creating the "problem" that you describe?

The "problem" is one you described. I am stating that your "problem" would be internal to the association and not MH's. MH is providing more levels to choose from. If someone feels a team is not slotted at the right level, that is a problem to handle within the association. MH is not dictating what level you register your team.

The only exception would be an association that feels that their AA or A designation is the wrong fit and loses an appeal with MH.

Bleed Maroon and Gold wrote:

BBgunner wrote:I am not as familiar with D2 so I will plead the 5th. I am however familiar with D10. So I will use this as an example, and maybe in D10 this works but in D2 it will not. Keep in mind D10 was the AA test pilot last year...

Irondale- would be A, B1 this year last year B1 and B2 at Bantam
Mora- would be A and B2 probably
Blaine- AA and A B1 and B2 last year was A B1 B1 and B2
CL- A and B2 maybe a B1 there second group is pretty tough
Pine City- B1 only if numbers are down
Andover- AA A B1 B2
ER- AA A B1 B2
Anoka- AA A B1 or maybe a B2 instead
SLP- A b1 or b2
Camb/Isanti- A and B1 prob
Champlin Park- AA A B1
Centennial- AA A B1 B2
North Branch- A and B2
Princeton- A and B1
Rogers- AA A B1
St Francis- A and B2

OK this is bantam level and all guesses, of course without knowing who is going to what level for sure it is impossible to be right.
I am not sure how the model works in D2 or any other district but I would like to think in D10 it should help competition.

Looks about accurate for the bantam levels. HoweverIrondale would be A and B2. also I just heard Coon Rapids and St. Francis are co-oping this year so that would put them at AA and B1 would be my guess. They will be forced to play AA because they have to take the biggerschools designation and that would put them at AA and with a co-op they will not be able to waive down to A.

MrBoDangles wrote: No, MNH is creating the "problem" you describe by making B-1 talent play A to keep them happy. MNH created this NEW divide.

spin-o-rama wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:How many medium size associations in District 2 are playing A and B-1......? *Almost all are playing AA and don't have the talent to also have an A team.

You don't think 17-32 will have a problem when 1-16 are two levels higher....? Have you ever been around Hockey folks.....?

Then they should tell the association to register the team as A. This would not be a MH problem, but an association/parent problem.

In your scenario the 17-32 talent fits the B1 level, the association registers them at B1, and yet somehow MH is destroying these kids' desire to play. That's quite the grind you're putting on your ax.

MrBoDangles wrote:

spin-o-rama wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:How many medium size associations in District 2 are playing A and B-1......? *Almost all are playing AA and don't have the talent to also have an A team.

You don't think 17-32 will have a problem when 1-16 are two levels higher....? Have you ever been around Hockey folks.....?

Then they should tell the association to register the team as A. This would not be a MH problem, but an association/parent problem.

In your scenario the 17-32 talent fits the B1 level, the association registers them at B1, and yet somehow MH is destroying these kids' desire to play. That's quite the grind you're putting on your ax.

Read again

MNH has created this new divide.

BBgunner wrote:Thank you Bleeder I completely forgot Coon Rapids on there anyhow. I am guessing it is a 1 year co-op?
I am interested do you like this model or prefer the old model?

spin-o-rama wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote:

spin-o-rama wrote: Then they should tell the association to register the team as A. This would not be a MH problem, but an association/parent problem.

In your scenario the 17-32 talent fits the B1 level, the association registers them at B1, and yet somehow MH is destroying these kids' desire to play. That's quite the grind you're putting on your ax.

Read again

MNH has created this new divide.

I'm curious if you championed the poor C kids being "demoted" when B split to B1 and B2.

It sounds like letter on the sweatshirt envy is what's getting your constituents in a huff.

MrBoDangles wrote:

spin-o-rama wrote:

MrBoDangles wrote: Read again

MNH has created this new divide.

I'm curious if you championed the poor C kids being "demoted" when B split to B1 and B2.

It sounds like letter on the sweatshirt envy is what's getting your constituents in a huff.

And it sounds like you're just concerned for your home(Edina, from your posts) association.

MNH will see the huff of their constituents...... Again, 17-32 playing two levels back.

Your newly combined Edina A(new B-1) team of 16-32 that will pound other A teams

Minnetonka going AA and then B-1(don't want to compete with Edina's 16-32).... Their B-1 team will pound other B-1(B-2) teams.

Player movement to mega associations for AA

Coon Rapids - St Francis combining so they don't lose more players. Cambridge - Mora combining for the same reason... See what's happening?

etc.

etc.

Glad you have no concerns since you're with Edina, but it could get really lonely after a while.