Page 5 of 12
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:50 am
by Northernlakes
The shot's on net guy in Greenway was off by about 10-12 shots vs. Denfeld. Yes Greenway controlled some stretches, as did Denfeld. It was a muck and grind kind of game as well.
Let's not be drinking any kool aid in December. But green kool aid, maroon kool aid, whatever type of flavor always tastes sweet, lol
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:08 am
by ironranger2
I think by next Tuesday evening we should have a somewhat clearer picture on spots 2 through 5.
Virginia vs. Denfeld tonight
Eveleth vs. Virginia on Saturday
Eveleth vs. Greenway next Tuesday
If I had to rank them by my gut feeling, it would go Greenway, Virginia, Denfeld, Eveleth. Problem is that alot of my "gut" feeling is based on what has happened in the past.
I think the influx of new players has obviously had a negative effect (to this point) on the chemistry at Greenway. Part of it might be that they just assume they will be the ones playing Hermantown in the section finals and everything will just work out. They have gone from a feel good story, to really being no different than Hermantown with the recruiting of players.
I think that for whatever reason, Virginia has not improved at the same level Denfeld and Eveleth have since Peewees and Bantams. I have seen (live or on TV) Virginia play the most. They certainly have the talent level, but they go long stretches of games were it seems 90% of the kids really don't want to be there. I am not sure if that is a coaching issue or if it's just this combination of kids.
From parents I work with from Eveleth, they said this group of kids has always seemed to play to the level of competition. There is no "killer" instinct to put inferior teams away and they have always seemed to lack that certain something to get them over the hump against better competition. They thought it had changed after the Chaska game, but then they come back with the Princeton game.
I don't know a lot of Denfeld, but it seems they are starting to put things together. I expect a good game from them tonight against Virginia.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:48 pm
by MNGuide
Great game in Duluth between Denfeld and Virginia! 3-3 Tie. Denfeld tied it up late in the third to send it to OT. Very even game with the shots totaling 40-35 in favor of Denfeld.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:48 pm
by rainier2
ILTG wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:41 am
Nope they were outshot. It was not by 30.
Virginia and Denfeld tie 3-3. They haven't posted the stats on the Hub yet, but I should subtract 20-30 shots from Denfeld's total because of home cookin', right?
Oops, just saw someone posted the shots. So Virginia outshot Denfeld 35-10!!!
Updated rankings:
1. Team that plays AA throughout youth hockey.
2. Greenway
3-4-5. VIrginia, Denfeld, Eveleth, in some order yet to be determined.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:39 pm
by Dog
Long thread but a little background and a few thoughts on Denfeld:
Denfeld HS:
Bad game tonight by Denfeld but also bad game by Virginia by many accounts. Denfeld still found a way to come back from 2 down to tie. With tie breakers in seeding, "win" goes to Denfeld. Denfeld only plays Virginia and Greenway once this year so with the win over Greenway, Greenway beating Virginia and the tie tonight, the advantage on paper to right now goes to Denfeld, with still a LOT of hockey to play. People are saying that Denfeld's best years are to come but this team is finding ways to win now.
From a reliable source who watched the game tape and observing the Greenway game, the games SOG were more like:
GW 39 or 40
DF 30
Regardless, Greenway outshot Denfeld. Greenway has a lot of talent and there should be 0 doubt that Clafton will have Greenway much better by years end (although other teams will get better as well).
Denfeld has 2 good goalies that rotate. Denfeld is better than most people think and the high schoolers worked very hard in the off-season. All of which won't register until they win more.
They have 3 very good varsity coaches who all played D1 and beyond (Jago, Ryan Geris & Jake Johnson). With this group of coaches developing these kids, you will see Denfeld shocking a few people and developing some very good players.
Denfeld youth: about 4 years ago, under Scott Kishel and Tim Kleimann, in an effort to stop the bleeding of losing kids, Denfeld started a program to make all the kids they have better whether they are "A" or "B" kids. Since then there have been numerous "B" kids who've improved to the point of not only playing on the A team but contributing in a meaningful way.
This was continued this summer with the HS coaches taking over with the departure of Kishel to Cloquet. Tim Kleimann then moved to bantams.
It's taken a few years to get all this rolling but the bantam team is very good. The are ranked anywhere from 1-5 in A rankings depending on where you look. The McClures look crazy good together. The bantams beat GR AA, East AA, tied Stillwater AA, tied Herm AA (in a tryout scrimmage) and beat Andover AA.... Pretty impressive considering some of those programs have 4-6 times more kids. They have 3 losses on the year so far in 22 games to: Eden Prairie AA, Centennial AA (these 2 losses were with their best player sidelined) and Warroad A (ranked #1 in state) by a goal. The bantam team has 8 freshman skaters (all are at Denfeld). There are 2 Marshall kids on the bantam team who are 8th graders. Other kids are at Lincoln and will be going to Denfeld.
Their PW's have gone to state 3 years running taking consolation last year. The current PW group looks in many ways like the group of Denfeld bantams from last year did (when they were in PW's 4 years ago). A few years in the new system and they'll look much more like the DBA's did last year (which were very good as well).
What could Denfeld use? A few more kids (or some to come back) but they are moving forward whether they have those kids come or not.
As a fan of hockey it's hard not to root for a group that is doing everything they can to improve and are having success with limited resources.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:32 am
by northwoods oldtimer
Dog wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:39 pm
Long thread but a little background and a few thoughts on Denfeld:
Denfeld HS:
Bad game tonight by Denfeld but also bad game by Virginia by many accounts. Denfeld still found a way to come back from 2 down to tie. With tie breakers in seeding, "win" goes to Denfeld. Denfeld only plays Virginia and Greenway once this year so with the win over Greenway, Greenway beating Virginia and the tie tonight, the advantage on paper to right now goes to Denfeld, with still a LOT of hockey to play. People are saying that Denfeld's best years are to come but this team is finding ways to win now.
From a reliable source who watched the game tape and observing the Greenway game, the games SOG were more like:
GW 39 or 40
DF 30
Regardless, Greenway outshot Denfeld. Greenway has a lot of talent and there should be 0 doubt that Clafton will have Greenway much better by years end (although other teams will get better as well).
Denfeld has 2 good goalies that rotate. Denfeld is better than most people think and the high schoolers worked very hard in the off-season. All of which won't register until they win more.
They have 3 very good varsity coaches who all played D1 and beyond (Jago, Ryan Geris & Jake Johnson). With this group of coaches developing these kids, you will see Denfeld shocking a few people and developing some very good players.
Denfeld youth: about 4 years ago, under Scott Kishel and Tim Kleimann, in an effort to stop the bleeding of losing kids, Denfeld started a program to make all the kids they have better whether they are "A" or "B" kids. Since then there have been numerous "B" kids who've improved to the point of not only playing on the A team but contributing in a meaningful way.
This was continued this summer with the HS coaches taking over with the departure of Kishel to Cloquet. Tim Kleimann then moved to bantams.
It's taken a few years to get all this rolling but the bantam team is very good. The are ranked anywhere from 1-5 in A rankings depending on where you look. The McClures look crazy good together. The bantams beat GR AA, East AA, tied Stillwater AA, tied Herm AA (in a tryout scrimmage) and beat Andover AA.... Pretty impressive considering some of those programs have 4-6 times more kids. They have 3 losses on the year so far in 22 games to: Eden Prairie AA, Centennial AA (these 2 losses were with their best player sidelined) and Warroad A (ranked #1 in state) by a goal. The bantam team has 8 freshman skaters (all are at Denfeld). There are 2 Marshall kids on the bantam team who are 8th graders. Other kids are at Lincoln and will be going to Denfeld.
Their PW's have gone to state 3 years running taking consolation last year. The current PW group looks in many ways like the group of Denfeld bantams from last year did (when they were in PW's 4 years ago). A few years in the new system and they'll look much more like the DBA's did last year (which were very good as well).
What could Denfeld use? A few more kids (or some to come back) but they are moving forward whether they have those kids come or not.
As a fan of hockey it's hard not to root for a group that is doing everything they can to improve and are having success with limited resources.
Darn good report out of Dog, thanks for sharing.
Some good news out of Duluth west end.
The rubes like it!
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:52 am
by rainier2
Great to hear that Denfeld is progressing and keeping more of their own talent. If Hermantown ever decides to go AA, then the Hunters should be right in the mix to go to state most years.
Denfeld went through that period a few years ago where they were counting on transfers for them to succeed, which certainly isn't ideal. Homegrown talent should be plenty to keep them a contender in a Herm-free 7A.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:15 pm
by karl(east)
Good take on Denfeld. There's really no reason why the Hunters can't be a quality Class A program. Sure, the demographics of its attendance area pose more of a challenge than they do for East or Hermantown, but it's not like it's uniform...it includes the Duluth Heights and Piedmont neighborhoods, which aren't that far off demographically from neighboring Hermantown, and there are other solidly middle class pockets across the area, from the area around Denfeld itself to some of the riverfront neighborhoods to a few clusters of homes higher on the hillside. For that matter, even Lincoln Park is seeing some real estate prices rise, though it may be a while before that translates into hockey-playing families. If they can keep kids in the program, the future could be pretty bright.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:39 am
by O-townClown
Dog wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:39 pmWhat could Denfeld use? A few more kids (or some to come back) but
they are moving forward whether they have those kids come or not.
As a fan of hockey it's hard not to root for a group that is doing everything they can to improve and are having success with limited resources.
Awesome state of the program summary! I enjoyed reading the whole thing and I have no familiarity with Duluth or the decline of Denfeld from the 80s and early 90s. LOVE the part about moving forward with or without. Great attitude. A doer's attitude. Love it.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:31 pm
by greenwayraider
Things are very interesting in 7A.
1. Hermantown - head and shoulders above everyone else. Would put any of the other teams in running time.
2. Denfeld - Exposed as an average Class A team by a 7-3 loss to New Prague which was then crushed by Hermantown 10-0.
3. Eveleth-Gilbert - Beat Virginia and could solidify a #3 ranking with a win at home over Greenway on Tuesday.
4. Greenway - An average team that has not improved since the Rapids game. All kinds of problems. Can't score, can't defend.
See that a different goalie saw a little time. Apparently he successfully appealed his eligiblility.
5. Virginia - Tired of saying this but they continue to be a lousy road team. Fighting to host a first round game like Greenway.
6. North Shore - beat Proctor and Ely and lost to Denfeld.
7. International Falls - Dominated by Eveleth-Gilbert and tied Proctor and beat Hibbing.
8. Proctor
9. Hibbing - lost 6-2 to the Falls
10. Ely
Sure will be interesting to see how it actually ends up. The optimism of a strong, deep sections has proven to be premature. Denfeld, Greenway, Virginia and Eveleth-Gilbert have all experienced some bad losses recently to teams outside of the section. At this stage Hermantown has a cake walk to state.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:51 am
by elliott70
At one time it looked like HT may be challenged by Greenway or maybe even Virginia.
Now it's looking like Denfeld and Eveleth will battle for the right to lose HT.
Still a lot left before sections.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:24 am
by Hessian
Lots of turmoil in Greenway, sometimes addition can be subtraction in a tight knit community like there. They have the talent to turn it around! January will be a big month for them.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:28 am
by ironranger2
I think Greenway is still the 2nd best team, but I suppose we should put Denfeld at 2 because of their win over Greenway. Don’t see putting Eveleth ahead of Greenway. Greenway’s losses have all been to very good teams.
Virginia’s complete lack of discipline continues to haunt them. They only had two more penalties than Eveleth last night, but it probably should have been even more. They definitely have the talent (just like last year). Coaches need to have a sit down with a few of these kids. They don’t get it taken care of and the season will go south pretty quick.
I guess a congrats is in order to the Eveleth seniors. First victory against the Virginia seniors since squirts. Plus the added bonus of beating a few former classmates who left for the bright lights of Virginia.
Greenway vs Eveleth will hopefully a good one.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:13 pm
by kniven
Hibbing vs. CEC tomorrow night. Both teams pretty much identical this year. Throw the records out the window for this tilt. Should be very interesting.....
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:35 pm
by greenwayraider
CEC will win easily. Could even be running time.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:36 pm
by rainier2
Nice win for the Raiders over Eveleth. This is the Greenway team we expected to see this year. I really hope they hit their stride and give Hermantown a run for their money come playoff time.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:58 pm
by greenwayraider
8-0 final. No let up in the schedule. Moorhead on Friday.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:00 pm
by ironranger2
Quick summary of the game...Greenway is really, really good.
Eveleth did not play nearly as well as they did against Virginia, but it wouldn’t have mattered if they did. Greenway was in complete control for most of the game.
They looked like the Greenway team from last year. If they continue to play like this, we are in for a 3rd straight year of Hermantown-Greenway. Hope 3rd time is a charm for them.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:36 pm
by HockeyStorm
Greenway is the only team that can contend with Goliath in this section,
If they can consistently play like tonight should be the 2. But going to be very interesting to see how 3-7 plays out. Could be any order for Denfeld, Eveleth, Virginia, North Shore, and Falls.
Think 8-10 will be Proctor 8, Hibbing 9, and Ely 10.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:15 am
by Hessian
Looks like Hibbing has two out for MSHSL violations. One is the coaches kid. Not good. Eveleth looked lost in the loss to Greenway. Outcoached, no fight or intensity by da bears.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:43 pm
by kniven
Hessian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:15 am
Looks like Hibbing has two out for MSHSL violations. One is the coaches kid. Not good. Eveleth looked lost in the loss to Greenway. Outcoached, no fight or intensity by da bears.
I was talking to Hibbing guys before the game, and 3 kids were out. Hibbing JV has 2 on the bench during the game. I sure hope Hibbing gets through this. That community and school and kids are pretty awesome!!!
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 10:43 pm
by rainier2
Looks like Virginia and Eveleth-Gilbert will be combining schools. Enrollment for hockey will increase to 761, just a shade higher than Hibbing's 746. If Hermantown ever leaves, the new VMIBEG team should be a perennial top 3 seed in 7A.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:17 am
by greenwayraider
Does your enrollment figure include Mesabi East? They coop with E-G.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:01 am
by rainier2
greenwayraider wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 12:17 am
Does your enrollment figure include Mesabi East? They coop with E-G.
Ah, that's right. That puts it at 985, close to Grand Rapids' enrollment.
Re: 7A - Thoughts
Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:52 am
by greenwayraider
That makes them the largest Class A school in the Section. This will certainly make them a contender for the #2 seed every year. The downside is that you cut in half the number of kids that will be playing high school hockey. I also wonder how this will affect the youth hockey programs at each community. Will they combine too?