Girls Participating in Boy AAA Tourneys

[spin-o-rama]

I am attempting a different spin on this one. Top four Professional sports in the U.S are Football, Baseball, Basketball, and Hockey. To the best of my knowledge their is zero females playing Professional at the highest level.errr. I mean Men.
Another analogy... Track and Field athletes....Their is many women at all ages who are faster and stronger who throw further and jump higher and run faster than their Male peers. BUT- Track and Field Has gotten this one right. I have never, ever, Never, and I Pray this continues....that A woman competes in the same division as a man in Track and Field. And if you do not understand that , you are stupid.

The second part of your post contradicts the first part. It also contradicts the results of every t&f event held.
"Their is many women?" That's painful to read.

[InigoMontoya]

Top four Professional sports in the U.S are Football, Baseball, Basketball, and Hockey. To the best of my knowledge their is zero females playing Professional at the highest level.errr. I mean Men.

There is a woman pitcher playing minor league ball out in CA.

Another analogy... Track and Field athletes....Their is many women at all ages who are faster and stronger who throw further and jump higher and run faster than their Male peers. BUT- Track and Field Has gotten this one right. I have never, ever, Never, and I Pray this continues....that A woman competes in the same division as a man in Track and Field.

Sure, there are women that compete in men's divisions around the country. In fact, in most road races the women run right alongside the men. They may be divided into groups by gender when awarding medals, but they are also divided by age groups (and believe me, women are running against the men, just as the 40 year-olds are trying to beat the twenty-somethings).

[StayAtHomeD]

You really don't have a clue.

Are you trying to piss off as many people as you can on this topic? All you seem to do is respond to everyone's opinion with negativity.

Hammer, I see where you get your nickname, you really are a tool.

Here's Minnesota Hockey's answer to the issue. If its too long for you to read or you need help interpreting the words, I'm sure someone here can help you out. Take it up with MN Hockey/USA Hockey if its that important to you. Take some responsibility yourself. If you register your little butchie's AAA team in a tournament, find out who the competition is before you go instead of crying about it afterwards. You only have yourself to blame if you show up and have to play :::shudder::: a girls team.

Some reasons the girls have expressed to me to remain with the youth program include: opportunity for better coaching, more ice time, more evenly skilled players on a team because of enough numbers for try outs, and a better competitive opportunity to excel. Not every Association in Minnesota may have a girl's program to offer to a female player that is comparable to her skill level. If the girl feels she is physically able to handle checking hockey and wants to try out for that level, the rules require she be given the opportunity.

The complaint I hear most often when a girl makes a youth team is, "she is taking the place of a boy who could have made the team." Girls today have just as many (and due to numbers probably more) opportunities as boys to play at the high school and collegiate level. The girls are not taking anything away from a boy who does not make a team, they are earning a spot that they deserve by their athletic ability. Let's face the facts, how many of the boys and girls on these teams will ever make a Division I college team or an NHL team. We all need to look at the bigger picture and agree that our objective should be to try to provide an activity for boys and girls for developing physical fitness, teaching them leadership and team skills, and most of all for fun and enjoyment.

Allowing the girls to remain in the youth program has been shown to be advantageous. Every player who participated on the Gold Medal winning 1998 Women's Olympic Team played with boys at some point in her hockey career. They learned the valuable skills needed to participate at a higher level.

None of this should be misconstrued to say that the girls' programs are all inadequate. There are Associations that provide what is necessary for a girl to excel in their programs. But areas of Minnesota are still in their infancy in regard to establishing girls' programs. If you have a girls' program and players are still opting not to participate with the girls' teams, maybe you need to ask the hard question, "Are we providing enough to keep the girls interested in our girls' program?"

To look at it another way, is the girl talented enough to help a youth team? If a player is skilled enough to make it through a try out process and be selected, do you deny that individual the opportunity based on gender? I sincerely hope not in today's world.

I hear the rumblings from parents and other individuals who think boys should be allowed to participate on girls' teams if girls are allowed to play on youth teams. What are the reasons for wanting to participate on a girls' team? Do they have a better coach? Do they have enough A and B levels that the player could participate at a skill level commensurate with their ability? Is their child small in stature and they want a non-checking game? These questions can also be asked as to why a girl wants to participate on a youth team.

USA Hockey has also instituted non-checking programs at the youth level. Because of such requests from members for non-checking leagues,
rules were voted in to recognize and allow youth age groups to provide this type of program . The local Affiliates can institute this program at their discretion. USA Hockey's mission through their local Affiliates, such as Minnkota (Minnesota, North and South Dakota), is to provide an opportunity for anyone to participate who is interested in playing hockey and they have developed rules to accommodate most situations for girls, boys, men and women.

You left out the most important fact, nobody cares about girl's hockey except their parents and grandparents. That is why they should keep it as far away from boy's hockey as possible starting about about 10 years old.

[muckandgrind]

You left out the most important fact, nobody cares about girl's hockey except their parents and grandparents. That is why they should keep it as far away from boy's hockey as possible starting about about 10 years old.

BINGO!!!! This is EXACTLY the reason why the talented girls should be allowed to play with the boys!!!!

[hammer99]

Top four Professional sports in the U.S are Football, Baseball, Basketball, and Hockey. To the best of my knowledge their is zero females playing Professional at the highest level.errr. I mean Men.

There is a woman pitcher playing minor league ball out in CA.






Minor league baseball is not the highest level of baseball...

[hammer99]

You left out the most important fact, nobody cares about girl's hockey except their parents and grandparents. That is why they should keep it as far away from boy's hockey as possible starting about about 10 years old.

BINGO!!!! This is EXACTLY the reason why the talented girls should be allowed to play with the boys!!!!

Not many people care about youth hockey besides parents and grandparents as well... It's not until maybe the bantam A level that you really get outside interest.

[InigoMontoya]

Commissioner David Stern said in an interview with Sports Illustrated that he believes women could be playing in the league within the next decade.

“I don’t want to get into all kinds of arguments with players and coaches about the likelihood,” Stern told SI. “But I really think it’s a good possibility.”

[InigoMontoya]

Manon Rheaume played for the Tampa Bay Lightning.

[InigoMontoya]

The most relevant point is that the NBA, the NFL, MLB, or the NHL have no rules prohibiting a female from participating if they were to earn a position. I don't consider NASCAR to be a sport, but...

[spin-o-rama]

Commissioner David Stern said in an interview with Sports Illustrated that he believes women could be playing in the league within the next decade.

“I don’t want to get into all kinds of arguments with players and coaches about the likelihood,” Stern told SI. “But I really think it’s a good possibility.”

Things are getting serious. Girls taking spots from boys in recreational events is one thing, but now women are taking jobs from men? The trickle down effect will mean many males are suffering because of the selfish act of 1 woman. The autonomy of male dominance must be defended at all costs!

[spin-o-rama]

Manon Rheaume played for the Tampa Bay Lightning.

That's unfair for you to use Manon for an example. Murray has never heard of her and Silly doesn't like examples - they paint too clear a picture.

[muckandgrind]

Commissioner David Stern said in an interview with Sports Illustrated that he believes women could be playing in the league within the next decade.

“I don’t want to get into all kinds of arguments with players and coaches about the likelihood,” Stern told SI. “But I really think it’s a good possibility.”

Things are getting serious. Girls taking spots from boys in recreational events is one thing, but now women are taking jobs from men? The trickle down effect will mean many males are suffering because of the selfish act of 1 woman. The autonomy of male dominance must be defended at all costs!

Priceless!!

If women are allowed to play in the NHL, then by God, men should be able to play in the women's professional league as well!!! I mean, that's only fair, right????? Otherwise, we're talking about a double standard, aren't we????

When do the Whitecaps hold their tryouts??????

[HockeyDad2016]

if you are complaining on this post it must be one of two things.

1 - your son was on one of the teams that got beat by the girls team in this tournament.

2 - a girl made the "A" team in your assoc. and you feel your son should be on the team instead of her.

Let ALL kids play to there ability - is it that complicated.

[murray]

Manon Rheaume played for the Tampa Bay Lightning.

That's unfair for you to use Manon for an example. Murray has never heard of her and Silly doesn't like examples - they paint too clear a picture.

Mahon rheuaume played two exhibition games for the N'ing? Love that google.
But none of these posts have given me the answer I have been looking for.

Everyone can refer to an earlier post or I will restate the question.

A boy loses out during a tryout to a more talented girl, he then plays on the c team at squirts or peewees. Less ice, coaching not as good. He quits. As a senior playing pick-up or JGA he watches from the stands as his high school Gets beat in the section finals, could he have been the kid to make the difference. We will never know. But the girl who made that team went on to play girls high school and had a stellar career.

Is this ok? From my point of view, no. I want to see the best product on the ice when my kids hit high school(both sons and daughters), so they can beat the powers that be. Having that girl there at that developmental stage does nothing for the high school boys program. Or am I wrong?

But from the girls perspective I can see why, but they have the choice to play either. Lot of talk on this site about limiting choice for these kids D6 vs MN made......... And how that is ok to limit but for these girls they should be able to play on either youth team when the boy doesn't have the same opportunity. Association Double standard plain and simple.

By the way love the David stern quote. Priceless. He has the pulse of the American sports world for sure.

[muckandgrind]

Manon Rheaume played for the Tampa Bay Lightning.

That's unfair for you to use Manon for an example. Murray has never heard of her and Silly doesn't like examples - they paint too clear a picture.

Mahon rheuaume played two exhibition games for the N'ing? Love that google.
But none of these posts have given me the answer I have been looking for.

Everyone can refer to an earlier post or I will restate the question.

A boy loses out during a tryout to a more talented girl, he then plays on the c team at squirts or peewees. Less ice, coaching not as good. He quits. As a senior playing pick-up or JGA he watches from the stands as his high school Gets beat in the section finals, could he have been the kid to make the difference. We will never know. But the girl who made that team went on to play girls high school and had a stellar career.

Is this ok? From my point of view, no. I want to see the best product on the ice when my kids hit high school(both sons and daughters), so they can beat the powers that be. Having that girl there at that developmental stage does nothing for the high school boys program. Or am I wrong?

But from the girls perspective I can see why, but they have the choice to play either. Lot of talk on this site about limiting choice for these kids D6 vs MN made......... And how that is ok to limit but for these girls they should be able to play on either youth team when the boy doesn't have the same opportunity. Association Double standard plain and simple.

By the way love the David stern quote. Priceless. He has the pulse of the American sports world for sure.

There is no double standard because girls hockey and boys hockey are not on the same plane. If they were, and girls hockey was as good as boys hockey and afforded the same opportunity for development, then I would agree with you.

Your example doesn't make sense. Just because a boy plays on a C Squirt team doesn't mean he won't make the varsity. Long way to go between Squirts and HS Hockey. MANY things change. Many kids who play on the A Squirt team won't make the varsity team, and many who don't play on the A team will....it's cliche but it's true: It's a marathon, not a sprint.. And if that boy wants to quit because he didn't make the A Squirt team; that's the fault of the player and his parents....not the girl's.

[murray]

That's unfair for you to use Manon for an example. Murray has never heard of her and Silly doesn't like examples - they paint too clear a picture.

Mahon rheuaume played two exhibition games for the N'ing? Love that google.
But none of these posts have given me the answer I have been looking for.

Everyone can refer to an earlier post or I will restate the question.

A boy loses out during a tryout to a more talented girl, he then plays on the c team at squirts or peewees. Less ice, coaching not as good. He quits. As a senior playing pick-up or JGA he watches from the stands as his high school Gets beat in the section finals, could he have been the kid to make the difference. We will never know. But the girl who made that team went on to play girls high school and had a stellar career.

Is this ok? From my point of view, no. I want to see the best product on the ice when my kids hit high school(both sons and daughters), so they can beat the powers that be. Having that girl there at that developmental stage does nothing for the high school boys program. Or am I wrong?

But from the girls perspective I can see why, but they have the choice to play either. Lot of talk on this site about limiting choice for these kids D6 vs MN made......... And how that is ok to limit but for these girls they should be able to play on either youth team when the boy doesn't have the same opportunity. Association Double standard plain and simple.

By the way love the David stern quote. Priceless. He has the pulse of the American sports world for sure.

There is no double standard because girls hockey and boys hockey are not on the same plane. If they were, and girls hockey was as good as boys hockey and afforded the same opportunity for development, then I would agree with you.

Your example doesn't make sense. Just because a boy plays on a C Squirt team doesn't mean he won't make the varsity. Long way to go between Squirts and HS Hockey. MANY things change. And if he wants to quit because of it; that's the fault of the player and his parents....not the girl's.

never said it was the girls fault. didn't even imply that.

many thing do change like girls go and play on the girls teams.

i will say my scenario does make sense ( take that), does every association give equal ice time for each level? peewee A vs C? would those players see the same level of competition? i don't think so.

but again i will say i could be wrong, just ask my wife

[ilike2score]

I realize females can and do perform at a high level of all sports dominated by males. The issue seems to be at the youth level of hockey whether it is fair to the boys for girls to be playing along side of them? And the answer is NO. The reason is most boys who play youth hockey have zero interest playing against girls. The issue IS NOT if boys can play on girls teams, but rather if boys are forced to play against girls? I do not know of, never heard of, and never want to meet a player, parent, or coach, who wants their boy to play against girls...at any level. By allowing a few minority girl players at the youth level, the balance of the needs of the many versus the needs of the few is seriously interrupted. Girls need to be girls....not trying to be boys.

[HockeyDad41]

I realize females can and do perform at a high level of all sports dominated by males. The issue seems to be at the youth level of hockey whether it is fair to the boys for girls to be playing along side of them? And the answer is NO. The reason is most boys who play youth hockey have zero interest playing against girls. The issue IS NOT if boys can play on girls teams, but rather if boys are forced to play against girls? I do not know of, never heard of, and never want to meet a player, parent, or coach, who wants their boy to play against girls...at any level. By allowing a few minority girl players at the youth level, the balance of the needs of the many versus the needs of the few is seriously interrupted. Girls need to be girls....not trying to be boys.

What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[The Exiled One]

Less ice, coaching not as good. He quits.

There's your problem right there. All three of those conditions are within your control... girls not withstanding.

[Benito Juarez]

I realize females can and do perform at a high level of all sports dominated by males. The issue seems to be at the youth level of hockey whether it is fair to the boys for girls to be playing along side of them? And the answer is NO. The reason is most boys who play youth hockey have zero interest playing against girls. The issue IS NOT if boys can play on girls teams, but rather if boys are forced to play against girls? I do not know of, never heard of, and never want to meet a player, parent, or coach, who wants their boy to play against girls...at any level. By allowing a few minority girl players at the youth level, the balance of the needs of the many versus the needs of the few is seriously interrupted. Girls need to be girls....not trying to be boys.

What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

HD41 stealing a line from the Billy Madison movie.

[muckandgrind]

I realize females can and do perform at a high level of all sports dominated by males. The issue seems to be at the youth level of hockey whether it is fair to the boys for girls to be playing along side of them? And the answer is NO. The reason is most boys who play youth hockey have zero interest playing against girls. The issue IS NOT if boys can play on girls teams, but rather if boys are forced to play against girls? I do not know of, never heard of, and never want to meet a player, parent, or coach, who wants their boy to play against girls...at any level. By allowing a few minority girl players at the youth level, the balance of the needs of the many versus the needs of the few is seriously interrupted. Girls need to be girls....not trying to be boys.

And the Worst Post of the Year award goes to ilike2score.

These girls are "not trying to be boys"...they're trying to become better hockey players. And the best way for them to do that is to play against the best competition they can play against within their abilities. If that means they play with and against only girls, fine. But if that means they have to play against the boys, that should be fine as well.

[new2coachin]

And the Worst Post of the Year award goes to ilike2score.

These girls are "not trying to be boys"...they're trying to become better hockey players. And the best way for them to do that is to play against the best competition they can play against within their abilities. If that means they play with and against only girls, fine. But if that means they have to play against the boys, that should be fine as well.[/quote]

So, state your reasons why we even have "Girls" hockey.

[murray]

So, state your reasons why we even have "Girls" hockey.[/quote]

So girls cam play hockey?

Did I win something? Hope it's a puppy.

[new2coachin]

So, state your reasons why we even have "Girls" hockey.

So girls cam play hockey?

Did I win something? Hope it's a puppy.[/quote]


Nice Come Back! seriously though, more specifically, why do we not just have "Youth" hockey & just combine them all?

[muckandgrind]

And the Worst Post of the Year award goes to ilike2score.

These girls are "not trying to be boys"...they're trying to become better hockey players. And the best way for them to do that is to play against the best competition they can play against within their abilities. If that means they play with and against only girls, fine. But if that means they have to play against the boys, that should be fine as well.

So, state your reasons why we even have "Girls" hockey.[/quote]

We have girls hockey because most girls don't have the ability to play traveling youth hockey. Notice I said "most", not all. Some girls are simply too good to play with only girls, and not all associations have enough girls registered to put any decent girls teams on the ice.

Boys and Girls hockey are not "separate but equal". Girls "A" level is played at a much lower calibre of play than the youth "A" level. When you have an exceptionaly gifted girl player, many times the only option she has of playing up is to play with the boys.

Is that so wrong?

You need to remember that we're not talking about a huge number of girls players here. I'd like to see an official number, but my guess is that there isn't more than 20-30 girls in the state playing PW A....and maybe only 5-10 that are playing Bantam A, if that.

Just a note: One of the top PW A goalies last year was the girl from Andover. In fact, she was so heads and shoulders above the other boys goalies trying out that she was the ONLY goalie they took on that team and they finished in 3rd place at the State Tournament. If you were to ask the boys on that team if they were happy to have her as a teammate....my guess their answer would be a resounding "YES!". But in ilike2score's world, she wouldn't have even been permitted to TRYOUT for the PW A team.