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puckbreath wrote: Regarding Serratore, did he play there ?

Yes, he did play out the string. My bet is he'll play somewhere next year for money as well.

With the number of opportunities there are all over the world in pro hockey, I don't think it is far fetched to say most college players end up getting paid to play. How much and for how long is obviously going to vary significantly. Most of them certainly aren't going to make enough to retire on... that's for sure.

It would be a gigantic task to go over all the players and see how many actually played for money after college. Even going back and doing recent Gopher teams is a bit of a pain.

Just out of curiosity, I took one roster of Gopher hockey (2009-2010... not a great team by any means) to see what happened after they left school:

Barriball - AHL
Birkholz - AHL/ECHL
Budish - AHL/ECHL
Carman - AHL
Cepis - ECHL
Fairchild - AHL/NHL
Fischer - ECHL/Euro
Flynn - AHL/Euro
Hansen - AHL
Helgeson - AHL
Hoeffel - AHL
Kangas - ECHL
Kremer - No pro hockey
Larson - No pro hockey
Leddy - NHL
Lofquist - Euro
Lucia - AHL
Matson - AHL/ECHL
Joe Miller - No pro hockey
Ness - AHL/NHL
Patterson - AHL/CHL
Sacchetti - Euro
Schack - No pro hockey
Schroeder - AHL/NHL
Wehrs - No pro hockey
White - Euro

Over 80% (21 of 26) of a below .500 college team went on to play some form of pro hockey. Obviously a very small sample and it won't reflect every school out there. Good luck to anybody out there that has the time to tackle the bigger picture.

ZH

Agree with the "gene pool lottery" comment in your article.

Last time I thought this to myself recently was watching Nathan MacKinnon at the X. No matter how many camps , dryland, rink time, etc, his speed, sudden changes of direction, and hand/eye coordination came originally from the "gene pool lottery". ( I must have seen him at least once during his Shattuck years, but for some reason wasn't memorable for me then)

green4 wrote:Everson had 155 points in 3 seasons while Anders Lee had 138 in only 2 seasons. If Lee would have played a 3rd season at Edina he might of had the record. Budish for the comparison was 110 in his two healthy seasons

If Malmquist stays, he has to be getting close?

BP wrote:

green4 wrote:Everson had 155 points in 3 seasons while Anders Lee had 138 in only 2 seasons. If Lee would have played a 3rd season at Edina he might of had the record. Budish for the comparison was 110 in his two healthy seasons

If Malmquist stays, he has to be getting close?

111 through three seasons. He'd need 44 to catch Everson (reasonable). He'd need 80 to catch Carlson (not reasonable).

NOt to divert this thread into a Dan Carlson thread, but....

Dan Carlsons high school career was underrated in hindsight

He didn't make the cut for Hockey Hub greatest of all time, and the top career pointgetter lists are usually cutoff at 200.

But, what makes his point total impressive is his 191 career points were against a very strong modern era south/west suburban schedule.

The only modern era AA suburban metro area players with more career points against comparable tough schedules were Kloos, Lee, Rau, Horn, Goworsky. So Dan is in good company.

He also got the game winner against Duluth East in the 1997 final

Dans Dad played for Badger Bob at U of W

puckbreath wrote:

keepyourheadup wrote:Like most of us I have no firsthand knowledge specific to Jakes situation. That being said it's beyond my ability to comprehend why a parent would or could force a kid to leave high school hockey. It's hard enough for these young men to sort through all the outside advise they are getting much less having dad make up your mind for you at 17 years of age. My guess is it's more likely a case of a kid trying to please his father, after his dad has suggested that he believes leaving would be in his best interest. Jake is a great player but he's on the smaller side, he's going to be a D1 player so what's the rush? I'll miss getting to see him play this winter.

This is a better way of putting it, what I've seen.

Regarding leaving early, as I've said before, I think it's a huge mistake, for anyone, period.

I have yet to hear someone say, "If only Joe hadn't stayed that last year in hs hockey. Boy, what a player he would have been"

There are stories of the opposite though; Joe left early, and got in over his head, burned out, etc.

Without knowing the exact numbers, I would bet the majority of even D-1 players never get to play hockey for money.
In other words, four years and done.

Better have a back up plan boys.

So I see no benefit at all, including the oft used "development" excuse, to leaving hs early. Treating kids like an agricultural crop.

Staying in hs will not hurt, regress, whatever, anyone's development.

D-1, development, or whatever else, will still be there afterwards.

I find it a little more than short-sighted to say that leaving is a mistake for everyone. Without having the proper stats to back it up, I would still venture to say there are as many success stories as failures...probably more. Personal family decisions to leave are just that...personal family decisions. Most, I assume, take the time to weigh the positives and negatives for their son and then base their decision on those things. A wonderful learning process for the kid as decision-making is obviously a life-long skill. But please note I said the +'s and -'s for the son, not the parents. The parent's feelings and opinions regarding the coach, the program, the town, the lake that is two feet shy of being the lake that it once was, should not enter into the decision regarding their son's hockey future. Objectivity as a parent is tough, I know, but in these situations of leaving early and doing something out of the ordinary, facts and objective thinking reign supreme. When in doubt, just refer to the handbook on parenting that as of today has not been penned. Hats off to those parents who have done their due diligence on this matter, whether that decision is leaving or staying.

Dan Carlson was a hell of a player. Just watched some of those mid 90's tournaments and he could go. Very fast and skilled with the puck.

Dan Carlson should be added to the list of those not returning.

Gopher Blog wrote:

puckbreath wrote: Regarding Serratore, did he play there ?

Yes, he did play out the string. My bet is he'll play somewhere next year for money as well.

With the number of opportunities there are all over the world in pro hockey, I don't think it is far fetched to say most college players end up getting paid to play. How much and for how long is obviously going to vary significantly. Most of them certainly aren't going to make enough to retire on... that's for sure.

It would be a gigantic task to go over all the players and see how many actually played for money after college. Even going back and doing recent Gopher teams is a bit of a pain.

Just out of curiosity, I took one roster of Gopher hockey (2009-2010... not a great team by any means) to see what happened after they left school:

Barriball - AHL
Birkholz - AHL/ECHL
Budish - AHL/ECHL
Carman - AHL
Cepis - ECHL
Fairchild - AHL/NHL
Fischer - ECHL/Euro
Flynn - AHL/Euro
Hansen - AHL
Helgeson - AHL
Hoeffel - AHL
Kangas - ECHL
Kremer - No pro hockey
Larson - No pro hockey
Leddy - NHL
Lofquist - Euro
Lucia - AHL
Matson - AHL/ECHL
Joe Miller - No pro hockey
Ness - AHL/NHL
Patterson - AHL/CHL
Sacchetti - Euro
Schack - No pro hockey
Schroeder - AHL/NHL
Wehrs - No pro hockey
White - Euro

Over 80% (21 of 26) of a below .500 college team went on to play some form of pro hockey. Obviously a very small sample and it won't reflect every school out there. Good luck to anybody out there that has the time to tackle the bigger picture.

Thanks for the info.

Of course, one program does not a survey make, especially when it's the gophers.

I would expect these kind of numbers from them, poor year or not, or any similar, "upper bracket" team.

I would bet the majority of college teams are not in this "upper bracket" though; there's a lot of schools out there.

I wonder what the numbers for other, perhaps not "upper bracket" teams (Mankato State, SCSU, UMD, BSU, etc.) in the state would look like ?

My bet says much different.

loonanny wrote:

puckbreath wrote:

keepyourheadup wrote:Like most of us I have no firsthand knowledge specific to Jakes situation. That being said it's beyond my ability to comprehend why a parent would or could force a kid to leave high school hockey. It's hard enough for these young men to sort through all the outside advise they are getting much less having dad make up your mind for you at 17 years of age. My guess is it's more likely a case of a kid trying to please his father, after his dad has suggested that he believes leaving would be in his best interest. Jake is a great player but he's on the smaller side, he's going to be a D1 player so what's the rush? I'll miss getting to see him play this winter.

This is a better way of putting it, what I've seen.

Regarding leaving early, as I've said before, I think it's a huge mistake, for anyone, period.

I have yet to hear someone say, "If only Joe hadn't stayed that last year in hs hockey. Boy, what a player he would have been"

There are stories of the opposite though; Joe left early, and got in over his head, burned out, etc.

Without knowing the exact numbers, I would bet the majority of even D-1 players never get to play hockey for money.
In other words, four years and done.

Better have a back up plan boys.

So I see no benefit at all, including the oft used "development" excuse, to leaving hs early. Treating kids like an agricultural crop.

Staying in hs will not hurt, regress, whatever, anyone's development.

D-1, development, or whatever else, will still be there afterwards.

I find it a little more than short-sighted to say that leaving is a mistake for everyone. Without having the proper stats to back it up, I would still venture to say there are as many success stories as failures...probably more. Personal family decisions to leave are just that...personal family decisions. Most, I assume, take the time to weigh the positives and negatives for their son and then base their decision on those things. A wonderful learning process for the kid as decision-making is obviously a life-long skill. But please note I said the +'s and -'s for the son, not the parents. The parent's feelings and opinions regarding the coach, the program, the town, the lake that is two feet shy of being the lake that it once was, should not enter into the decision regarding their son's hockey future. Objectivity as a parent is tough, I know, but in these situations of leaving early and doing something out of the ordinary, facts and objective thinking reign supreme. When in doubt, just refer to the handbook on parenting that as of today has not been penned. Hats off to those parents who have done their due diligence on this matter, whether that decision is leaving or staying.

I think it's even more short sighted for someone to leave early, and I would most definitely take that bet about success stories vs. not.

But everyone's free to do what they want; I'm just expressing my opinion is all.

I quit trying to change minds, after dealing with a teenage daughter a few years back....

puckbreath wrote:

loonanny wrote:

puckbreath wrote:
This is a better way of putting it, what I've seen.

Regarding leaving early, as I've said before, I think it's a huge mistake, for anyone, period.

I have yet to hear someone say, "If only Joe hadn't stayed that last year in hs hockey. Boy, what a player he would have been"

There are stories of the opposite though; Joe left early, and got in over his head, burned out, etc.

Without knowing the exact numbers, I would bet the majority of even D-1 players never get to play hockey for money.
In other words, four years and done.

Better have a back up plan boys.

So I see no benefit at all, including the oft used "development" excuse, to leaving hs early. Treating kids like an agricultural crop.

Staying in hs will not hurt, regress, whatever, anyone's development.

D-1, development, or whatever else, will still be there afterwards.

I find it a little more than short-sighted to say that leaving is a mistake for everyone. Without having the proper stats to back it up, I would still venture to say there are as many success stories as failures...probably more. Personal family decisions to leave are just that...personal family decisions. Most, I assume, take the time to weigh the positives and negatives for their son and then base their decision on those things. A wonderful learning process for the kid as decision-making is obviously a life-long skill. But please note I said the +'s and -'s for the son, not the parents. The parent's feelings and opinions regarding the coach, the program, the town, the lake that is two feet shy of being the lake that it once was, should not enter into the decision regarding their son's hockey future. Objectivity as a parent is tough, I know, but in these situations of leaving early and doing something out of the ordinary, facts and objective thinking reign supreme. When in doubt, just refer to the handbook on parenting that as of today has not been penned. Hats off to those parents who have done their due diligence on this matter, whether that decision is leaving or staying.

I think it's even more short sighted for someone to leave early, and I would most definitely take that bet about success stories vs. not.

But everyone's free to do what they want; I'm just expressing my opinion is all.

I quit trying to change minds, after dealing with a teenage daughter a few years back....

Did she leave early?

loonanny wrote:

puckbreath wrote:

loonanny wrote: I find it a little more than short-sighted to say that leaving is a mistake for everyone. Without having the proper stats to back it up, I would still venture to say there are as many success stories as failures...probably more. Personal family decisions to leave are just that...personal family decisions. Most, I assume, take the time to weigh the positives and negatives for their son and then base their decision on those things. A wonderful learning process for the kid as decision-making is obviously a life-long skill. But please note I said the +'s and -'s for the son, not the parents. The parent's feelings and opinions regarding the coach, the program, the town, the lake that is two feet shy of being the lake that it once was, should not enter into the decision regarding their son's hockey future. Objectivity as a parent is tough, I know, but in these situations of leaving early and doing something out of the ordinary, facts and objective thinking reign supreme. When in doubt, just refer to the handbook on parenting that as of today has not been penned. Hats off to those parents who have done their due diligence on this matter, whether that decision is leaving or staying.

I think it's even more short sighted for someone to leave early, and I would most definitely take that bet about success stories vs. not.

But everyone's free to do what they want; I'm just expressing my opinion is all.

I quit trying to change minds, after dealing with a teenage daughter a few years back....

Did she leave early?

It was a joke (teenagers, not listening about anything, etc.)

Nothing to do with hockey.

puckbreath wrote:

loonanny wrote:

puckbreath wrote: I think it's even more short sighted for someone to leave early, and I would most definitely take that bet about success stories vs. not.

But everyone's free to do what they want; I'm just expressing my opinion is all.

I quit trying to change minds, after dealing with a teenage daughter a few years back....

Did she leave early?

It was a joke (teenagers, not listening about anything, etc.)

Nothing to do with hockey.

I'm 99% sure that was internot sarcasm, and pretty funny. If not, it's funnier. Is that a word?

thespellchecker wrote:Dan Carlson should be added to the list of those not returning.

Decent reply.

Wahlin Family Development


Chris Dilks @ChrisDilks · 21m

UMass Amherst transfer Brandon Wahlin has committed to Lake Superior.

WestMetro wrote:Wahlin Family Development


Chris Dilks @ChrisDilks · 21m

UMass Amherst transfer Brandon Wahlin has committed to Lake Superior.

It's still too bad that Jake's dad is requiring him to play in the USHL next season and won' let him play at White Bear where he really wants to play.

Since this post has lost its purpose we may as well add karl(east) not returning to Duluth.

Exlied - Do you have a list compiled somehwere for this year. Where we at in terms of numbers..?

SuperStar wrote:Exlied - Do you have a list compiled somehwere for this year. Where we at in terms of numbers..?

I'm updating the list on the first page of this thread.

Tyler Jutting leaving Mankato West for SSM.

Jack Robbel - Played Varsity at Academy of Holy Angels (Freshman Goalie 2013-14)

To Shattuck-St. Mary's

BP wrote:Tyler Jutting leaving Mankato West for SSM.

Dad Troy and SSM coach Ward are friends and played together growing up in Richfield.

Gopher Blog wrote:

puckbreath wrote: Regarding Serratore, did he play there ?

Yes, he did play out the string. My bet is he'll play somewhere next year for money as well.

With the number of opportunities there are all over the world in pro hockey, I don't think it is far fetched to say most college players end up getting paid to play. How much and for how long is obviously going to vary significantly. Most of them certainly aren't going to make enough to retire on... that's for sure.

It would be a gigantic task to go over all the players and see how many actually played for money after college. Even going back and doing recent Gopher teams is a bit of a pain.

Just out of curiosity, I took one roster of Gopher hockey (2009-2010... not a great team by any means) to see what happened after they left school:

Barriball - AHL
Birkholz - AHL/ECHL
Budish - AHL/ECHL
Carman - AHL
Cepis - ECHL
Fairchild - AHL/NHL
Fischer - ECHL/Euro
Flynn - AHL/Euro
Hansen - AHL
Helgeson - AHL
Hoeffel - AHL
Kangas - ECHL
Kremer - No pro hockey
Larson - No pro hockey
Leddy - NHL
Lofquist - Euro
Lucia - AHL
Matson - AHL/ECHL
Joe Miller - No pro hockey
Ness - AHL/NHL
Patterson - AHL/CHL
Sacchetti - Euro
Schack - No pro hockey
Schroeder - AHL/NHL
Wehrs - No pro hockey
White - Euro

Over 80% (21 of 26) of a below .500 college team went on to play some form of pro hockey. Obviously a very small sample and it won't reflect every school out there. Good luck to anybody out there that has the time to tackle the bigger picture.

Not a Gopher but where is this young man headed?
http://www.omavs.com/ViewArticle.dbml?S ... M_ID=31400

The Exiled One wrote:

SuperStar wrote:Exlied - Do you have a list compiled somehwere for this year. Where we at in terms of numbers..?

I'm updating the list on the first page of this thread.

Add these kids to your list...

** home town or Mn HS


Name Yr ** Team League
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Victor Morgan 12 SoStPaul Bauer-Emerson 18U NAPHL
Cory Sprague 12 WBLK Bauer-Emerson 18U NAPHL
Mark Sanchez 12 EP Bauer-Emerson 18U NAPHL
Kory Muzzy 12 MSV Bauer-Emerson 18U NAPHL
Sage Broda 12 BSV Bauer-Emerson 18U NAPHL
Charlie Wohlers 11 Maht Bauer-Emmerson 18U NAPHL
Tommy Adams 12 Plymouth Bauer-Emmerson 18U NAPHL
Ryan Norman 12 Maplewood Shattuck St Mary 18U UST1
Collin Saccoman 12 Stillwater Shattuck St Mary 18U UST1
Larry Jungwirth 12 Bloomington Shattuck St Mary 18U UST1
Mitch Kimball 12 Owatonna Shattuck St Mary 18U UST1
Ryan Lindgren 11 Mpls Shattuck St Mary 18U UST1
Jordan Klehr 12 Lino Lakes Shattuck St Mary 18U UST1
Ryan Edquist 10 Lakeville Shattuck St Mary 16U UST1
Mitch Dolter 11 Woodbury Shattuck St Mary 18U UST1
Sam Oden 12 St Louis Pk Shattuck St Mary 18U UST1
Cole Bond 12 Eden Prairie Shattuck St Mary 18U UST1
Marcus Chorney 11 Hastings Shattuck St Mary 18U UST1
Bennett Norlin 10 Farmington Shattuck St Mary 16U UST1
Shaun Olson 11 Faribault Shattuck St Mary 18U UST1
Mason Palmer 10 Plymouth Shattuck St Mary 16U UST1
Grant Mismash 10 Edina Shattuck St Mary 16U UST1
Brock Draeger 10 Lakeville Shattuck St Mary 16U UST1
Erik Dahl 10 Lakeville Shattuck St Mary 16U UST1
Scott Reedy 10 Prior Lake Shattuck St Mary 16U UST1
Austin Pratt 10 Lakeville Shattuck St Mary 16U UST1
Jackson Bond 12 WBLK Twin Cities Steel 20U NA3HL
Tyler Thompson 12 AV Omaha 18U NAPHL
Luke Osterman 12 Stillwater Omaha 18U NAPHL
Garret Martin 12 Vadnais Skipjacks 18U USPHL
Donovan Meyer 12 Vadnais Sugar Land Imperials 20U NA3HL
Cameron Madrid 12 BSV El Paso Rhinos 20U WSHL
Mack Stevens 12 St Paul Casper Coyotes 20U WSHL
Adam Maxfield 12 Austin ?? 20U ??
Kegan Iverson 12 Mpls Portland 20U WHL
Rem Pitlick 12 Plymouth Waterloo Blackhawk 20U USHL
Dante Zapata 10 MplGrove Jr Gamblers 16U NAPHL
Baron Thompson 10 AV Omaha 16U NAPHL
Zach Black 11 Hugo HC Dallas 18U NAPHL
Ty Black 9 Hugo HC Dallas 14U NAPHL
Keenan Johnson 9 Achiever Madison Capitals 16U NAPHL
Aaron Grounds 9 Vadnais Madison Capitals 16U NAPHL