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State Champ 97 wrote:

chickendance wrote:Apparently N Wright and Bemidji have to beat Andover to break in.

Bemidji plays Andover on Monday at the Andover Holiday Tournament.

It appears to me that at least the KRACH rankings reflect the Bemidji & NWC teams being deserving of top 20 inclusion - will be intersting to see how this week and next weeks games...

I found it. I am guesing CEC would have been the best test in this one for you.

ANDOVER TOURNAMENT
Games Monday
Cloquet vs. Holy Angels, 2 pm
Anoka vs. Woodbury, 4 pm
Bemidji vs. Andover, 6 pm
Games Tuesday
Cloquet vs. Andover, 2 pm
Woodbury vs. Holy Angels, 4 pm
Anoka vs. Bemidji, 6 pm
Games Wednesday
Woodbury vs. Bemidji, 2 pm
Cloquet vs. Anoka, 4 pm
Holy Angels vs. Andover, 6 pm

chickendance wrote:I found it. I am guesing CEC would have been the best test in this one for you.

ANDOVER TOURNAMENT
Games Monday
Cloquet vs. Holy Angels, 2 pm
Anoka vs. Woodbury, 4 pm
Bemidji vs. Andover, 6 pm
Games Tuesday
Cloquet vs. Andover, 2 pm
Woodbury vs. Holy Angels, 4 pm
Anoka vs. Bemidji, 6 pm
Games Wednesday
Woodbury vs. Bemidji, 2 pm
Cloquet vs. Anoka, 4 pm
Holy Angels vs. Andover, 6 pm

Bemidji gave up one shot through two periods and beat Andover 3-1 with an empty netter. Final shots were about 25-6.

Let's Play Hockey 12/31:

Class AA:
1 HOPKINS
2 Roseville
3 Stillwater
4 Hill-Murray
5 Grand Rapids/Greenway
6 Centennial
7 Edina
8 Minnetonka
9 Proctor/Hermantown
10 Duluth
11 Bemidji
12 White Bear Lake
13 Irondale
14 Eagan
15 Blaine
16 Maple Grove
17 Eastview
18 Mounds view
19 North Wright County
20 Benilde-St. Margaret’s

Class A:
1 BLAKE
2 Breck
3 Warroad
4 Roseau
5 Crookston/Red Lake
6 Mound Westonka
7 Northfield
8 Mankato West
9 Hutchinson
10 South St. Paul
11 Alexandria
12 Silver Bay/Two Harbors
13 Henry Sibley
14 Orono
15 Totino-Grace
16 East Grand Forks
17 Hibbing/Chisholm
18 Visitation/SPA United
19 New Ulm
20 Fergus Falls

MNhockey24 wrote:Let's Play Hockey 12/31:

So what happens next week in the polls....here are the records but need to see new KRACH....

Class AA:
1 HOPKINS (lost in OT to Stillwater, beat GRG in 3OT, lost to Duluth - new #3? - 11-2-1)
2 Roseville (crushed Eastview, beat undefeated Blake and claimed Kaposia Championship over Crookston - face Stillwater on Tuesday - but the new number #1? -13-1-1)
3 Stillwater (beat undefeated Hopkins, beat Blaine, lost to Edina 2-1 new number #2? - 12-2-0)
4 Hill-Murray (beat Duluth 2-1, lost 2-1 to Edina, beat Blaine 7-2 - 10-3-0)
5 Grand Rapids/Greenway (lost to Blaine, lost to Hopkins, beat Irondale - new #? - 10-3-2)
6 Centennial (8-2-1)
7 Edina (beat Irondale, beat HM, beat Stillwater - should move up record -new #5? now 8-5-2)
8 Minnetonka (10-4-1)
9 Proctor/Hermantown (14-1)
10 Duluth (lost to HM 2-1, beat Irondale, beat Hopkins - 11-2-3)
11 Bemidji (8-2-0)
12 White Bear Lake (lost to NSP - 8-4-0)
13 Irondale (lost to Edina, tie/lost in 2OT to Duluth, lost to GRG - 9-4-1)
14 Eagan (11-3-0)
15 Blaine (beat GRG 7-4, lost to Stillwater 5-2, lost to HM 7-2)
16 Maple Grove
17 Eastview
18 Mounds view
19 North Wright County
20 Benilde-St. Margaret’s

Class A:
1 BLAKE (lost to Roseville 4-1)
2 Breck
3 Warroad (beat Roseau 2-1 in OT)
4 Roseau
5 Crookston/Red Lake
6 Mound Westonka
7 Northfield
8 Mankato West
9 Hutchinson
10 South St. Paul
11 Alexandria
12 Silver Bay/Two Harbors
13 Henry Sibley
14 Orono
15 Totino-Grace
16 East Grand Forks
17 Hibbing/Chisholm
18 Visitation/SPA United
19 New Ulm
20 Fergus Falls

KRACH THRU 1-4-09 SAYS:

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... ht=#410462

NOTE: The records reflected here are ONLY for games against MN Opponents so they may differ from the OVERALL records for a team that includes NON MN Opponents. Also, records may differ if a score was entered incorrectly or not entered in the minnesota-scores.net website for a team. To check this, or to update:

This will get you to the scores for 12/30 but you can check by team or other dates obviously:
http://www.minnesota-scores.net/scorebo ... &sport=110

If you know a missing score or score correction send it to:
http://www.minnesota-scores.net/email.php

CLASS AA

RK TEAM RECORD RATING
1 Roseville 13-1-1 516.332
2 Hopkins 11-2-1 410.16
3 Stillwater Area 12-2-0 386.951
4 Hill-Murray 10-3-0 305.469
5 Grand Rapids/Greenway 10-3-2 225.37
6 Edina 8-5-2 205.789
7 Minnetonka 10-4-1 165.45
8 Centennial 9-2-2 149.615
9 Duluth Area 10-2-3 148.134
10 Proctor/Hermantown/Duluth Marshall 12-1-0 147.574
11 Bemidji 10-3-0 108.321
12 Maple Grove 11-4-0 90.827
13 White Bear Lake 9-5-1 85.543
14 Eagan 11-3-0 84.077
15 North Wright County 13-1-0 71.624
16 Mounds View 9-4-1 68.607
17 Blaine 6-6-3 67.846
18 Cloquet/Esko/Carlton 9-6-0 65.303
19 Irondale 9-4-1 61.909
20 Eastview 9-3-2 58.595


CLASS A

RK TEAM RECORD RATING
1 Warroad 12-1-0 551.586
2 Blake 12-1-0 382.056
3 Roseau 9-2-0 210.337
4 Breck 10-4-0 100.673
5 Silver Bay/Two Harbors/Cook County 10-2-1 92.338
6 Crookston 8-3-0 61.096
7 Northfield 12-1-0 52.787
8 Mound-Westonka 11-2-1 47.593
9 South St. Paul 11-2-0 27.901
10 Mankato West 10-3-0 22.998
11 Orono 10-5-0 19.577
12 New Ulm 7-3-0 12.112
13 St. Louis Park 8-4-0 12.082
14 Hutchinson 7-5-0 11.867
15 Henry Sibley 6-5-0 11.236
16 Fergus Falls 4-5-2 10.755
17 East Grand Forks 5-5-0 10.668
18 Red Wing 7-5-1 10.366
19 Faribault 6-6-1 9.709
20 Minnehaha 9-5-0 9.614

Heavenly rankings to date 1/5
Roseville (playing strong hockey right now)
Stillwater (will be #1 after Tuesday)
Hopkins (had a rough week)
Blake (got Raided)
Edina (played very well in own tournament)
Hill-Murray (inconsistent play…but what’s new for the Pioneers)
Warroad (back to reality)
Duluth (impressive showing)
Centennial (kudos for winning own tourney)
Grand Rapids (too much reliance on top line, goalie)
White Bear Lake (goalie play and lack of scoring still an issue)
PHM (solid but still haven’t beat anyone yet)
Roseau (nothing new)
Minnetonka (starting to put it together)
Breck (nice win over the Warriors)

Let's Play Hockey 1/8/09:

Class AA:
1 ROSEVILLE
2 Stillwater
3 Hopkins
4 Hill-Murray
5 Edina
6 Minnetonka
7 Grand Rapids/Greenway
8 Centennial
9 Proctor/Hermantown
10 Duluth
11 Bemidji
12 White Bear Lake
13 Eagan
14 Irondale
15 Maple Grove
16 Blaine
17 Mounds View
18 North Wright County
19 Cloquet
20 Benilde-St. Margaret’s

Class A:
1 BLAKE
2 Breck
3 Warroad
4 Roseau
5 Crookston/Red Lake
6 Mound Westonka
7 Northfield
8 Silver Bay/Two Harbors
9 South St. Paul
10 Mankato West
11 Orono
12 Henry Sibley
13 Hutchinson
14 Alexandria
15 Totino-Grace
16 East Grand Forks
17 New Ulm
18 Fergus Falls
19 St. Louis Park
20 Visitation/SPA United

Some realignment at the top this week due to the results of the holiday tourneys...

Pioneer Press 1/13/09

PIONEER PRESS GIRLS RANKINGS

1. Roseville (15-1-1): Big overtime win over Stillwater solidifies Suburban East Conference lead.
2. Blake (14-1): The Bears are the team to beat in Class A. They host Irondale tonight.
3. Hopkins (14-2): Becky Kortum continues to dominate with 26 goals, 18 assists.
4. Minnetonka (12-4-2): Can it stop a surging Edina team tonight?
5. Edina (9-5-3): The Hornets are still buzzing; they are 4-0-1 in past five games.
6. Stillwater (13-3): A 3-1 victory over Mounds View snapped a two-game skid.
7. Eagan (14-3): Six players are double-digit scorers.
8. Centennial (11-2-3): A rematch with Blaine looms Saturday; 7-1-0 in past eight games.
9. Irondale (11-4-1): Averaging nearly five goals a game; showdown with Benilde-St. Margaret's on Friday.
10. Hill-Murray (12-3): Back in the top 10 after topping South St. Paul; 7-1-0 in past eight games.


WHO'S HOT

Sally Komarek, Blake, F, sr.: The Bears' captain scored the 100th goal of her career as well as her 200th point in Blake's 9-2 victory over the Minneapolis Novas. Has 24 goals and 13 assists this season.

McKenzie Johnson, Eden Prairie, G, eighth grade: Made 16 saves in the Eagles' 2-0 victory over Apple Valley, her first varsity win.

Kaley Flynn, Henry Sibley, F, sr.: Her goal with 2:31 remaining gave the Warriors a 4-3 victory over South St. Paul, Sibley's first win over the Packers since 1999.

Stephanie Hatcher, Lakeville North, D, jr.: Had three goals and two assists in the Panthers' 10-2 victory over Bloomington Kennedy.

Breanna Herzog, Visitation/St. Paul Academy, D, jr.: Had three goals and two assists in United's 6-4 victory over Orono.

Erin Green, White Bear Lake, F, jr.: Had a hat trick in Bears' 5-3 victory over Forest Lake.

— Tim Leighton

LPH Rankings January 15, 2009

HS GIRLS AA
1 ROSEVILLE
2 Hopkins
3 Stillwater
4 Hill-Murray
5 Edina
6 Minnetonka
7 Centennial
8 Proctor/Hermantown
9 Duluth
10 Grand Rapids/Greenway
11 White Bear Lake
12 Eagan
13 Irondale
14 Maple Grove
15 Bemidji
16 Cloquet
17 Benilde-St. Margaret’s
18 Blaine
19 North Wright County
20 Mounds View

HS GIRLS A
1 BLAKE
2 Breck
3 Warroad
4 Roseau
5 Crookston/Red Lake
6 Mound Westonka
7 Northfield
8 Silver Bay/Two Harbors
9 South St. Paul
10 Mankato West
11 Henry Sibley
12 Orono
13 Fergus Falls
14 East Grand Forks
15 Visitation/SPA United
16 Totino-Grace
17 Hutchinson
18 New Ulm
19 Alexandria
20 St. Louis Park

Do the rankers for LPH even look at scores and records? Faribault has beaten Mound-Westonka, tied Fergus, and lost close games to both Northfield and West, took Mayo to OT and lost a fairly close game to North Wright County. Metro bias at it's best.

Falcon 89 Fan wrote:Do the rankers for LPH even look at scores and records? Faribault has beaten Mound-Westonka, tied Fergus, and lost close games to both Northfield and West, took Mayo to OT and lost a fairly close game to North Wright County. Metro bias at it's best.

Maybe not at its best but a very close second to the St. Paul Pioneer Press. I'm not sure what they are looking at.

State Champ 97 wrote:

Falcon 89 Fan wrote:Do the rankers for LPH even look at scores and records? Faribault has beaten Mound-Westonka, tied Fergus, and lost close games to both Northfield and West, took Mayo to OT and lost a fairly close game to North Wright County. Metro bias at it's best.

Maybe not at its best but a very close second to the St. Paul Pioneer Press. I'm not sure what they are looking at.

I think the PPress is actually doing a "Metro" power ranking but just doesn't say so - but I could be wrong...

Falcon 89 Fan wrote:Do the rankers for LPH even look at scores and records? Faribault has beaten Mound-Westonka, tied Fergus, and lost close games to both Northfield and West, took Mayo to OT and lost a fairly close game to North Wright County. Metro bias at it's best.

Here's what KRACH says:

RANK CLASS A (AS OF 1-15-09 MIDNIGHT)
RK TEAM RECORD RATING
1 Warroad 17-1-0 900.695
2 Blake 15-1-0 577.512
3 Roseau 13-4-0 152.868
4 Breck 12-4-0 124.468
5 Crookston 12-4-0 98.367
6 Silver Bay/Two Harbors/Cook County 11-3-1 84.616
7 Mound-Westonka 12-3-1 45.273
8 Mankato West 14-3-0 35.031
9 Northfield 13-3-0 26.655
10 South St. Paul 12-5-0 25.605
11 East Grand Forks 10-6-0 19.222
12 Henry Sibley 9-7-0 18.693
13 Orono 11-7-0 16.618
14 Fergus Falls 6-5-3 14.470
15 New Ulm 11-3-2 14.315
16 Alexandria 8-7-0 10.040
17 Faribault 8-7-1 9.427
18 Red Wing 9-7-1 8.630
19 St. Louis Park 9-7-0 8.006
20 Hutchinson 8-8-1 7.610
21 St. Paul United 7-7-2 7.011
22 Minnehaha 9-6-0 7.006
23 Thief River Falls 7-8-0 6.363
24 Totino-Grace 6-10-0 6.119
25 Eveleth-Gilbert 9-5-1 5.479


Compare that to the QRF:

1 Warroad (16-1-0) 108.1
2 Blake (14-1-0) 85.7
3 Roseau (12-4-0) 84.2
4 Breck (12-4-0) 79.7
5 Crookston (12-4-0) 75.2
6 Mound-Westonka (12-3-1) 72.9
7 Silver Bay/Two Harbors/Cook County (13-2-1) 69.4
8 Mankato West (13-3-0) 66.4
9 South St. Paul (11-6-0) 62.8
10 New Ulm (11-3-2) 62.2
11 Northfield (12-3-0) 61.1
12 Orono (11-7-0) 59.0
13 Red Wing (9-7-1) 58.6
14 Henry Sibley (10-6-0) 56.5
15 Fergus Falls (5-6-3) 56.4
16 Hutchinson (8-8-0) 52.6
17 Alexandria (7-7-0) 49.4
18 Faribault (8-7-1) 48.9
19 St. Louis Park (8-7-0) 46.6
20 East Grand Forks (11-6-0) 46.2
21 Hibbing/Chisholm (3-12-1) 44.6
22 Minnehaha (10-5-0) 44.2
23 Austin (5-8-2) 42.5
24 St. Paul United (6-7-2) 42.4
25 Totino-Grace (6-10-0) 42.3


A composite (average) of all three yields probably the most fair ranking:

*Note where only 2 of 3 ranked a team avg was for 2 rankings, teams not mentioned in more than 1 of 3 dropped:

RK TEAM KRACH LPH QRF AVG
1T Blake 2 1 2 1.67
1T Warroad 1 3 1 1.67
3T Breck 4 2 4 3.33
3T Roseau 3 4 3 3.33
5 Crookston 5 5 5 5.00
6 Mound-Westonka 7 6 6 6.33
7 Silver Bay/Two Harbors/Cook County 6 8 7 7.00
8 Mankato West 8 10 8 8.67
9 Northfield 9 7 11 9.00
10 South St. Paul 10 9 9 9.33
11T Henry Sibley 12 11 14 12.33
11T Orono 13 12 12 12.33
13 Fergus Falls 14 13 15 14.00
14 New Ulm 15 18 10 14.33
15 East Grand Forks 11 14 20 15.00
16 Red Wing 18 N/A 13 15.50
17 Alexandria 16 19 17 17.33
18 Faribault 17 N/A 18 17.50
19 Hutchinson 20 17 16 17.67
20 St. Louis Park 19 20 19 19.33
21 St. Paul United 21 15 24 20.00
22 Totino-Grace 24 16 25 21.67
23 Minnehaha 22 N/A 22 22.00

ghshockeyfan wrote:

State Champ 97 wrote:

Falcon 89 Fan wrote:Do the rankers for LPH even look at scores and records? Faribault has beaten Mound-Westonka, tied Fergus, and lost close games to both Northfield and West, took Mayo to OT and lost a fairly close game to North Wright County. Metro bias at it's best.

Maybe not at its best but a very close second to the St. Paul Pioneer Press. I'm not sure what they are looking at.

I think the PPress is actually doing a "Metro" power ranking but just doesn't say so - but I could be wrong...

personally, I think this is what happens: the rankers for LPH know who the top 8-10 teams are in each division and then the next 10-12 keep knocking one another off, literally making it impossible to rank anyone of those next bunch of teams from week to week.
Seriously, how do you rank six teams that have all played each other and have all beaten one another?? You can't

Clearly stupidity on behalf of voters....teams that win twice in a week move down and teams that lose or tie move up. Would be nice to see a list of who votes...why is this so private?
________
Vapir No2

conehead wrote:Clearly stupidity on behalf of voters....teams that win twice in a week move down and teams that lose or tie move up. Would be nice to see a list of who votes...why is this so private?

I'm not the first to say this, but subjective rankings like you find in LPH and the Pioneer Press don't mean much, if anything, other than to generate interest and controversy (like you find here). At this point in the season, you can make a good case that KRACH and QRF are more accurate as they filter out past reputations and local bias.

Hansonbrother wrote:

ghshockeyfan wrote:

State Champ 97 wrote: Maybe not at its best but a very close second to the St. Paul Pioneer Press. I'm not sure what they are looking at.

I think the PPress is actually doing a "Metro" power ranking but just doesn't say so - but I could be wrong...

personally, I think this is what happens: the rankers for LPH know who the top 8-10 teams are in each division and then the next 10-12 keep knocking one another off, literally making it impossible to rank anyone of those next bunch of teams from week to week.
Seriously, how do you rank six teams that have all played each other and have all beaten one another?? You can't

I think this is probably very true... I'd say the top 5 or so teams are a lock - order may shift and even they could drop an occasional game to a team in the top 15 or so - there isn't an EP, SSP, RV like teams of past "unbeatable" years. I don't see a runaway #1 this year in either class but a select few may distance themselves a bit from the next 10+ It's just a much more equal game...

The way to best rank that group that has beaten up on eachother may be a computer ranking... =)

Also - my earlier post was about the Pioneer Press and not LPH. LPH is a group of HS coaches that vote (or was anyway), Pioneer Press is a staff writer I assume that compiles that info. based on what coaches send them the most info. and what they can figure out based on the stats they have seen.

mnhockeyfan is right. The only thing rankings are good for is to generate discussion, regardless if that discussion is positive or negative. I guess in that respect the rankings accomplished that goal.

conehead wrote:Clearly stupidity on behalf of voters....teams that win twice in a week move down and teams that lose or tie move up. Would be nice to see a list of who votes...why is this so private?

Just an FYI to you, rankings for LPH have to be in by Wednesday noon every week...what this means to you Coneskull, if someone beats someone on a wednesday, thursday, friday, or saturday, it won't reflect on how they were voted that week.
As someone who has voted in the past, my statement stands true of this, there are clearly 8 teams in each section that stand away from the pile below them. The rest are clearly a crap shoot from week to week.

8 teams in each section that stand away from the pile below them

Aren't there 9-10 teams at the most in each section?

State Champ 97 wrote: 8 teams in each section that stand away from the pile below them

Aren't there 9-10 teams at the most in each section?

Class A, Class AA....try and think a little bigger than your conference

Hansonbrother wrote:

State Champ 97 wrote: 8 teams in each section that stand away from the pile below them

Aren't there 9-10 teams at the most in each section?

Class A, Class AA....try and think a little bigger than your conference

Those are classes not sections and sure as heck aren't conferences that mean nothing but bragging rights.

State Champ 97 wrote:

Hansonbrother wrote:

State Champ 97 wrote: 8 teams in each section that stand away from the pile below them

Aren't there 9-10 teams at the most in each section?

Class A, Class AA....try and think a little bigger than your conference

Those are classes not sections and sure as heck aren't conferences that mean nothing but bragging rights.

I didn't realize I had to spell it out for you, "Mr. Out of StateChamp." Where did you win, Iowa? Nebraska? South Dakota?

I was making reference to the Divisions of Class A and Class AA when I said that there are 8 to 10 top teams in each section. Not sections as in who plays who to get to the state tournament; but Class A and Class AA.
So in kindergarten terms for you to understand...there are 8 to 10 teams in Class A that are head and shoulders above the next 10-12 teams in the top 20. It might only be 8, but hopefully you get the picture. And same would go for Class AA

Kindergarten terms? How about this? Class=A and AA Section=1-8
I would think a former rankings voter would understand the difference. Then again the LPH rankings are always messed up (unless you're from the metro) so maybe that explains things. Or is it we are suppose to listen to what you mean and not what you say?