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OGEE OGELTHORPE wrote:The Twins give up 18 runs. 6 for Livan

Looks like the Factor is moving back to even, unless the Mets give up 19.

In some other shocking news Kubel is tied for the team lead in home runs.

Shocking to who?

OGEE OGELTHORPE wrote:The Twins give up 18 runs. 6 for Livan

Looks like the Factor is moving back to even, unless the Mets give up 19.

In some other shocking news Kubel is tied for the team lead in home runs.

No so fast OGEE. What difference does it make how many the starter gives up if the bullpen gives up 8?

Blackburn pitched well in game 2 and what good did it do?

Fair and Balancedis what The Factor must be.

Lets se how far into the game Johan Who goes remembering he doesnt have to pitchvs Red Sox.

Talking Points, wouldn't you say?

No rush to judgment in the No Spin Zone

Stay tuned to The Factor.

packerboy wrote:

OGEE OGELTHORPE wrote:The Twins give up 18 runs. 6 for Livan

Looks like the Factor is moving back to even, unless the Mets give up 19.

In some other shocking news Kubel is tied for the team lead in home runs.

No so fast OGEE. What difference does it make how many the starter gives up if the bullpen gives up 8?

Blackburn pitched well in game 2 and what good did it do?

Fair and Balancedis what The Factor must be.

Lets se how far into the game Johan Who goes remembering he doesnt have to pitchvs Red Sox.

Talking Points, wouldn't you say?

No rush to judgment in the No Spin Zone

Stay tuned to The Factor.

Santana who pitched yesterday, 5 innings of shut-out ball.
Mets won 5-0. Should be a no brainer on the Factor

OGEE OGELTHORPE wrote:

packerboy wrote:

OGEE OGELTHORPE wrote:The Twins give up 18 runs. 6 for Livan

Looks like the Factor is moving back to even, unless the Mets give up 19.

In some other shocking news Kubel is tied for the team lead in home runs.

No so fast OGEE. What difference does it make how many the starter gives up if the bullpen gives up 8?

Blackburn pitched well in game 2 and what good did it do?

Fair and Balancedis what The Factor must be.

Lets se how far into the game Johan Who goes remembering he doesnt have to pitchvs Red Sox.

Talking Points, wouldn't you say?

No rush to judgment in the No Spin Zone

Stay tuned to The Factor.

Santana who pitched yesterday, 5 innings of shut-out ball.
Mets won 5-0. Should be a no brainer on the Factor

No such thing with PB at the helm. Or is there?

[quote="packerboy"][quote="OGEE OGELTHORPE"]The Twins give up 18 runs. 6 for Livan



No so fast OGEE. What difference does it make how many the starter gives up if the bullpen gives up 8?



A Talking Point that must be considered is Johan Who pitched 5 scorless and got pulled after a rain delay. It was sunny in Boston.

I see your point with the bullpen, but this Patriot sees the Twins winning with Who on the mound.

The Factor is All Square

The Factor did not realize that Who had pitched last night also.

Shame on the The Factor for not keeping its ear to the ground.

But its anything but a no brainer.

Lets discuss the Talking Points

Again, the question is: If Johan had pitched yesterday, would the Twins have won?

He shut out the hapless Giants for 5+ and was removed following a rain delay.

Livantana gave up 6 in a poor performance but the Twins scored 5 and the bullpen gave up 8.

No brainer? The Factor does not see it that way.

However, in the interest of being fair and ,of course, balanced, The Factor will move back one and call it even. The Factor moves to 0.

The Factor reaons that if Johan had been in Fenway, he would have kept the Sox to 2 or 3 over 7 and the good relievers would have been brought in and the game would have been won 5-4 or something.

However, The Factor wishes to point out that this is a close call. Ask Nick Blackurn, a true Patriot if you dont believe The Factor.


Stay tuned to The Factor and remember, check your Spin at the door.

Perhaps The Factor has been comparing apples to oranges this whole time. Maybe the factor should've been puting Livan's and Carlos Silva's performances side-by-side instead. Jayson Stark did. From the "Cy Yuk" category of his midseason awards:


"Picking against a pitcher (Livan Hernandez) who's on pace to become the first man in almost 30 years to give up 304 hits in a season was as tough a call as our Cy Yuk panel has ever made. But at least Livan wins a game now and then. In fact, four of his nine wins are against teams in first place.

So let's bestow this honor on a pitcher who raked in the biggest free-agent pitcher contract of the winter ($48 million for four years), who hasn't beaten an American League team since April 17 (0-10 in 13 starts), who is supposed to be a ground-ball specialist, but has still allowed his opponents to slug .491 against him in a pitchers' park, who helped get his manager and GM fired, who even directed a thinly veiled public rip at Ichiro Suzuki. True, there are still 3½ long years left on Carlos Silva's contract. But he has sure positioned himself to rank as one of the massive free-agent busts of all time."

Govs93 wrote: So let's bestow this honor on a pitcher who raked in the biggest free-agent pitcher contract of the winter ($48 million for four years), who hasn't beaten an American League team since April 17 (0-10 in 13 starts), who is supposed to be a ground-ball specialist, but has still allowed his opponents to slug .491 against him in a pitchers' park, who helped get his manager and GM fired, who even directed a thinly veiled public rip at Ichiro Suzuki. True, there are still 3½ long years left on Carlos Silva's contract. But he has sure positioned himself to rank as one of the massive free-agent busts of all time."[/i]

Talk about a no brainer

Santana:

4 IP, 6 H, 5 ER, 3 BB, 2 HR



Breathtaking.

Govs93 wrote:Santana:

4 IP, 6 H, 5 ER, 3 BB, 2 HR

Breathtaking.

Know when to hold 'em

Know when to fold 'em...

The Factor reports that Livantana's first start out of the break resulted in a solid performnce against a good hitting team. Another convincing Twins win.

The Mets are apparently resting the 8-7 Johan Who out of the break. It probably wont matter what he does as the Twins scored 14.

We are almost at game 100 and The Factor is at 0.

For 100 games we have been fair and balanced even if , at times, it appears we are fairly imbalanced.

If this continues, all of those in the liberal media who ripped the Twins for the Who trade will be outed for what they really are......Pinheads.

Stay tuned to The Factor as we develop Talking Points in the No Spin Zone.

An remeber, please check your Spin at the door.

Johan Who did pitch after the break.

July 17th against the Reds: Shortest outing as a Met, 4 in, 5 earned runs
but they came back to win 10-8.

Not sure if that fact will factor into the Factor

packerboy wrote:The Factor reports that Livantana's first start out of the break resulted in a solid performnce against a good hitting team. Another convincing Twins win.

The Mets are apparently resting the 8-7 Johan Who out of the break. It probably wont matter what he does as the Twins scored 14.

We are almost at game 100 and The Factor is at 0.

For 100 games we have been fair and balanced even if , at times, it appears we are fairly imbalanced.

If this continues, all of those in the liberal media who ripped the Twins for the Who trade will be outed for what they really are......Pinheads.

Stay tuned to The Factor as we develop Talking Points in the No Spin Zone.

An remeber, please check your Spin at the door.

Thank you OGEE. The Factor needs to get its facts straight.

But you are correct. It makes no difference. The Twins hitters would have bailed the 100 million dollar man out just as the Mets did. A few weeks ago, the former GMtana told the media "I cant do everything".

So, here is a Talking Point for you: But Who..... can you do anything?


I suppose we could Spin it and say "Well, the Twins would not have scored so many if Who had pitched so poorly" but we will leave that kind of spinning to ER and others who are not as fair nor as balanced as The Factor.

Stay tuned as The Factor continues to thoroughly and precisley gather all the facts and information necessary to maintain The No Spin Zone.

Lets see, the 100 million dollar man is not doing it on the mound..........
How is his bat been doing so far?

100 games into the season- 0 RBI

Shortstops-2
Johan-0

Does Giraffe ring a bell?

The Factor will give Govs The Last Word on this Talking Point.

OGEE OGELTHORPE wrote:Lets see, the 100 million dollar man is not doing it on the mound..........
How is his bat been doing so far?

100 games into the season- 0 RBI

Shortstops-2
Johan-0

Does Giraffe ring a bell?

The Factor will give Govs The Last Word on this Talking Point.

I say it all gets thrown out because Chris has disappeared and teams are clearly afraid to pitch to Johan. He's the new Barry Bonds.

Govs93 wrote:
I say it all gets thrown out because Chris has disappeared and teams are clearly afraid to pitch to Johan. He's the new Barry Bonds.

The Factor is willing to give Govs the last word however, it cannot allow Spin, the likes of which is posted above.

Shame on you Govs and try to remember, this is a No Spin Zone

Spin schmin.

It's the only reasonable explanation. Has to be.



Right?



Guys?



Hello?




Ah screw it...

Hello again and welcome to The Factor.

We go to -1 as Livantana was knocked around early as his squad struggled to score until late in a rare loss when he starts. Johan Who was solid.

Its been a Reality Check lately for our Twins as they struggle on the road.

Hopefully some home cookin will help Livan find his form vs the Sox.

No Spin. Its -1 and we continue our fair and balanced analysis.

Hey, We Report, You Decide here in the No Spin Zone.

Livantana was not good vs the Sox and Who pitched a one run CG vs the Cards.

Some Talking Points are that the Twins did nothing offensively last night anyway so what's the difference. Also, Who would have probably given up 3or4 in 7inn vs the Sox. After the game, he would have told the media "I cant do everything".

But in its never ending Crusade to be fair and balanced, The Factor must move to -2.

Its been a Reality Check lately with Livan but its now August and The Factor is only at -2.

Its a team game and thats ...No Spin

See you next time on The Factor and hey, if you want to Spin it , take it elsewhere.

I've enjoyed the Livantana name as much as anyone but the reality is he hasn't been "antanaing" lately. The factor will be a -10 by the end of September, but that isn't what matters. What matters is the factor was all square as of early July. Livantana's efforts through April and May bought this team some valuable time. Thankfully Livan was "antanaing" when Boof was soiling up the rotation, Baker was hurt, and Liriano was slow, wild, and hittable.

I don't know Livantana's future worth but I think his role as the caboose of this rotation just might be enough to keep the Vikings out of the news until late September.

Long live the factor and the legend of Livantana.

packerboy wrote:Livantana was not good vs the Sox and Who pitched a one run CG vs the Cards.

Some Talking Points are that the Twins did nothing offensively last night anyway so what's the difference. Also, Who would have probably given up 3or4 in 7inn vs the Sox. After the game, he would have told the media "I cant do everything".

But in its never ending Crusade to be fair and balanced, The Factor must move to -2.

Its been a Reality Check lately with Livan but its now August and The Factor is only at -2.

Its a team game and thats ...No Spin

See you next time on The Factor and hey, if you want to Spin it , take it elsewhere.

And now you are actually doing it right...

Irishmans Shanty wrote:
Long live the factor and the legend of Livantana.

The thread title and premise are still valid, just the names been changed to Liriantana.

Interesting.


But the point has been made in spite of ERs heavy trafficing of Spin and other such things.

Neut, I cant do the Lirianotana thing because he was here anyways and his return to the rotation was just a matter of time. It would not be Fair and Balanced

The Factor never expected to be as low as -2 in August.

The purpose of The Factor was to take a look, in a non scientific kind of way, at what the effect of losing Sanatana would be by comparing the results of his outings to that of Livan's.

We used Livan because he was picked up due to Johans departure and inserted in Johans spot in the rotation.

I suppose we could pick up on Blackburn as somebody who would not be here but for Santanas departure but.............forget it.

But here are some Talking Points as we close out this discussion.

There is no way the Twins ever get their moneys worth by signing Santana. Its a bad buy. There is no value in it.

They are in 1st place with out him.

One starting ace can make a difference, as Liriano showed yesterday, but to spend that much money on one player who plays in 35 games is ludicrous for the Twins.

The Twins have been very successful doing it their way over the last 7 years. They lose Santana and Hunter and nobody gave them a chance. The Pinheads in the national media ripped them for allowing those 2 players to leave.

But Billy Smith, you sir are a Patriot.

With that , The Factor will have to find some other topic to opine about.

In the meantime, there is No Spin allowed here.

Adios to The Factor, and Livan.

But what if the Twins missed the playoffs by 1 game?
Would it have been worth the money to keep Whotana for two more wins and make the playoffs?

Hopefully the Twins don't have to ponder those questions.