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$15 to get in???
that tells me this "Tourney" is simply a money maker.

outside_observer wrote:$15 to get in???
that tells me this "Tourney" is simply a money maker.

I wonder if any of the "top end" players have ever turned this down? and do they get a red flag for doing so. Because I've seen alot of practice and stuff ALL after their high school spring sports for not much so far. Just wondering.

No one turns this opportunity down unless they are sick or injured.

Who from d2 do u think could have made the team that played bantam a but were too old to play

Who cares? They were too old!!

[quote="Hoops"][quote="Jimbo99"][quote="Hoops"]

At 1 minute shifts each forward got 11 shifts vs in a HS game w/ 3 lines you would get 17 shifts...a 50% reduction. Not complaining but that was a dissappointing little tourney to watch.[/quote]


I would agree with Hoops. I like watching my son and some of his friends play...But this tourney was a waste of money.

Is the advance "16" tourney money better well spent?

Iknow.....All kids develop at different ages....The roster will change dramatically next year. (my kid kid included).

Just wondering if it is more has a more realistic high level tournament feel?

Hoops wrote:

outside_observer wrote:$15 to get in???
that tells me this "Tourney" is simply a money maker.

I wonder if any of the "top end" players have ever turned this down? and do they get a red flag for doing so. Because I've seen alot of practice and stuff ALL after their high school spring sports for not much so far. Just wondering.

It sounds as if you are judging this age level as if they are high school level players. Eventhough some have played HS and a few had very productive freshman years, the overall talent pool has just finished up their final year of bantams. These are some 240 14 to 15 yr olds. With that as your talent pool, your top 25% kids will give you more of a HS feel to the game, your middle 50% kids will be able to play with the top group but will be adjusting and the last 25% of the kids will be a bit over their head. The overall feel to the games will not give the feel of two quality HS teams going at it. But I will say that some of these teams; D2, D3, D8, D10 could have beaten the bottom 4 teams or so in the Lake this season. Next year the bar will be raised again. All of the kids will have at least one year of HS under their belt. Kids will have grown, and once you get to the final 54 you will see some pretty good hockey. When they get to be 17 many of the final 54 will be entertaining opportunities to further their hockey careers after HS. It is all a progression taking it one step at a time.

panther5 wrote:

Hoops wrote:

outside_observer wrote:$15 to get in???
that tells me this "Tourney" is simply a money maker.

I wonder if any of the "top end" players have ever turned this down? and do they get a red flag for doing so. Because I've seen alot of practice and stuff ALL after their high school spring sports for not much so far. Just wondering.

It sounds as if you are judging this age level as if they are high school level players. Eventhough some have played HS and a few had very productive freshman years, the overall talent pool has just finished up their final year of bantams. These are some 240 14 to 15 yr olds. With that as your talent pool, your top 25% kids will give you more of a HS feel to the game, your middle 50% kids will be able to play with the top group but will be adjusting and the last 25% of the kids will be a bit over their head. The overall feel to the games will not give the feel of two quality HS teams going at it. But I will say that some of these teams; D2, D3, D8, D10 could have beaten the bottom 4 teams or so in the Lake this season. Next year the bar will be raised again. All of the kids will have at least one year of HS under their belt. Kids will have grown, and once you get to the final 54 you will see some pretty good hockey. When they get to be 17 many of the final 54 will be entertaining opportunities to further their hockey careers after HS. It is all a progression taking it one step at a time.

Not skating 4 lines could they have...maybe my expectations were to high...but this tourney certainly didn't have any special feeling to it..

Anyone on how 12 did know they lost first game dont know about the rest?
Any possible kids moving on?

panther5 wrote: D2, D3, D8, D10 could have beaten the bottom 4 teams or so in the Lake this season.

All of these teams had one or two fantastic freshman high school players.

rbkhockey4life wrote:Any possible kids moving on?

One-hundred and two players will move on the the next festival in St. Cloud, there are too many kids that have a chance of moving on to list them all or even say the names of a few, right now its all about the evaluators' opinions. I'm positive that you will see many well known names, along with others that are still trying to make a name for themselves and get noticed.

102!! wow i thought it was less got to be some hard choices to make!!

does anyone have the scores for the Round Robin. If not, does anyone know how districts 1,4,11 and 16 ranked at the end or the tourny.
Last year some top players came out of the red pool

keepmeoutofit wrote:does anyone have the scores for the Round Robin. If not, does anyone know how districts 1,4,11 and 16 ranked at the end or the tourny.
Last year some top players came out of the red pool

I believe they finished 16, 11, 1, and 4. Was there the whole weekend. Some very good hockey on the bracket side. Thought D8 had the best talent overall even though they didn't win the tournament. D2 had more depth.
Some interesting conversations with parents from some pool teams. I know all the focus is on the top-end talent of this tournament and rightly so, but consider this. Some of these kids who were good enough to play in this tournament only play hockey maybe 4 months of the year, get 20-25 games, and only practice twice a week. Must be very good athletes to pull that off IMO. If those kids put any kind of training program together to get better over the off season (one dad told me this will be the first year his son will work on hockey throughout the spring, summer, and fall while he plays baseball and football) it will be interesting to see how they improve for next year.

What bantam A team doesn't start until Thanksgiving, is only practicing twice a week, and only playing 20 games?

Hoops wrote:

panther5 wrote:

Hoops wrote: I wonder if any of the "top end" players have ever turned this down? and do they get a red flag for doing so. Because I've seen alot of practice and stuff ALL after their high school spring sports for not much so far. Just wondering.

It sounds as if you are judging this age level as if they are high school level players. Eventhough some have played HS and a few had very productive freshman years, the overall talent pool has just finished up their final year of bantams. These are some 240 14 to 15 yr olds. With that as your talent pool, your top 25% kids will give you more of a HS feel to the game, your middle 50% kids will be able to play with the top group but will be adjusting and the last 25% of the kids will be a bit over their head. The overall feel to the games will not give the feel of two quality HS teams going at it. But I will say that some of these teams; D2, D3, D8, D10 could have beaten the bottom 4 teams or so in the Lake this season. Next year the bar will be raised again. All of the kids will have at least one year of HS under their belt. Kids will have grown, and once you get to the final 54 you will see some pretty good hockey. When they get to be 17 many of the final 54 will be entertaining opportunities to further their hockey careers after HS. It is all a progression taking it one step at a time.

Not skating 4 lines could they have...maybe my expectations were to high...but this tourney certainly didn't have any special feeling to it..

Its not a tourney.
It is a festival.
The idea is to observe the players and with any luck choose the 100+ to move on to the next level.
It is somewhat develpmental but mostly to identify.

The tourney revenue covers costs along with the tryout and registration fee. Minn Hockey does not make money and since it does not factor admin expense into the calculation technically it loses money.

If you are lookning for high end tournaments go to the HS state, or Final Five, or Frozen four or if you are looking for excitement and joy try the bantam or peewee state tourneys.

This is a USA Hockey program to identify players, modified by MH to provide some degree of development and fun.

InigoMontoya wrote:What bantam A team doesn't start until Thanksgiving, is only practicing twice a week, and only playing 20 games?

Roseau did not have their team picked until Thanksgiving or a little later.
Thief River Falls about the same time.
Of course they play a little more than 20 games and get more ice time than 2 practices per week. Bemidji, Crookston, East Grand Forks, LOW, Warroad were picked around November 10th.
The big difference is they get 3 to 4 practices per week.

InigoMontoya wrote:What bantam A team doesn't start until Thanksgiving, is only practicing twice a week, and only playing 20 games?

Well I can tell you that in Brainerd they finished tryout Nov 11th. Played a game the next weekend, ( week before thanksgiving i believe) and only played 38 games all year including districts, VFW district and VFW State.

We start hockey when football & soccer ends in October. The Ice Leaves first week in March when Baseball starts. (5 months of ice)
Kids had a tough decision to make when the seeding tournament conflicted with a baseball tournament. They played hockey but was it the right thing to do ?
A small community can not afford to have athletes specialize in one sport to have a successful athletic program.

InigoMontoya wrote:What bantam A team doesn't start until Thanksgiving, is only practicing twice a week, and only playing 20 games?

I realize most start about the same time....technically. A lot of programs offer fall sessions to get ready for the season. However, your missing the point....VERY FEW programs that have success only touch the ice 3 times per week over a 4 month period and produce pretty good players. Take the Bemidji example. 38 games...does that include scrimmages? How many practices per week?, do they have ice available for skating, clinics, fall sessions prior to tryouts? What about spring, summer, hockey.

Again, the point I was trying to make is there were some kids who played this past weekend that may in fact have 100+ fewer ice touches per year than many of the kids who were there. That's all.

Roseau did not have their team picked until Thanksgiving or a little later.

I'm not sure why this continues to get paraded out for those of us that choose not to live farther north than Montreal insinuating that kids in Rosseau don't touch the ice between Easter and Halloween.

your missing the point.

I'm not missing the point. I get that some kids don't have to work as hard as other kids. I was simply interested in the background story. There are several (maybe even many) programs that have chosen the 4 month, 2 practice, 20 game route, however, I haven't heard many (any) success stories coming from those programs. I'm interested in hearing one.

InigoMontoya wrote:

Roseau did not have their team picked until Thanksgiving or a little later.

I'm not sure why this continues to get paraded out for those of us that choose not to live farther north than Montreal insinuating that kids in Rosseau don't touch the ice between Easter and Halloween.

your missing the point.

I'm not missing the point. I get that some kids don't have to work as hard as other kids. I was simply interested in the background story. There are several (maybe even many) programs that have chosen the 4 month, 2 practice, 20 game route, however, I haven't heard many (any) success stories coming from those programs. I'm interested in hearing one.

I am not insinuating anything.
You asked a question, and I am giving you answers.
Because of various conflicts and money issues; ice is not always available for northern teams. That does not mean that parents do not make sacrifices and travel with their players to where ice is available. And as stated 'in season' ice is available for northern teams to get more than 2 'touches' per week.

It was aksed as part of a question, where are teams not picked until Thanksgiving.
This last year, Thief River Falls And Roseau (one s).

Fairly simple.
No 'implications or insinuations', no 'better than thou', no 'pity me'.
Just an answer to a question.

And in reference to Montreal, in general Montreal is north of Minneapolis, but depending on what suburb of Minneapolis/Montreal you are comparing, a metro area person may very well live 'north' of Montreal.

Not really a right or wrong, just different. I spoke with a northern parent at the Advanced 15 Festival that was really impressed with the strength and depth of the metro District teams. I was too. The four districts in the semifinals, 2, 8, 10 & 3 are all metro.

The kid up north has good distractions. They own an ATV, motorcycle, fish, hunt, wakeboard, play baseball and football and whatever else you can imagine a kid with those options at their finger tips would do. A metro kid might do the same if he lived in the nort.

Many metro kids don't have the same type of good distractions so they spend more time on the ice and in the driveway working on their game. These top kids are very impressive hockey players for such a young age. Actual genetic athletic ability can trump hours spent by a player with fewer natural athletic abilities as they grow older. For a Squirt, sheer hours can build a player. A stud high school player, with less on ice experience, can squish a Harry Potter type player that spent 100s of hours on the ice as a youth player. But, most every strong player is spending a lot of time on the ice so those examples aren't as frequent as they used to be. The path for the raw skilled youth player is more difficult today because the overall quality of all players has gone up so much. Kind of difficult to come out of the woodwork now a days.

observer wrote:Not really a right or wrong, just different. I spoke with a northern parent at the Advanced 15 Festival that was really impressed with the strength and depth of the metro District teams. I was too. The four districts in the semifinals, 2, 8, 10 & 3 are all metro.

The kid up north has good distractions. They own an ATV, motorcycle, fish, hunt, wakeboard, play baseball and football and whatever else you can imagine a kid with those options at their finger tips would do. A metro kid might do the same if he lived in the nort.

Many metro kids don't have the same type of good distractions so they spend more time on the ice and in the driveway working on their game. These top kids are very impressive hockey players for such a young age. Actual genetic athletic ability can trump hours spent by a player with fewer natural athletic abilities as they grow older. For a Squirt, sheer hours can build a player. A stud high school player, with less on ice experience, can squish a Harry Potter type player that spent 100s of hours on the ice as a youth player. But, most every strong player is spending a lot of time on the ice so those examples aren't as frequent as they used to be. The path for the raw skilled youth player is more difficult today because the overall quality of all players has gone up so much. Kind of difficult to come out of the woodwork now a days.

I agree.
And having watched this game (and other games) for many years the two constants are resources and tradition. For a long time northern hockey players had resources in the venue of cold weather (earlier and later outdoor ice) which helped build tradition. Resources in the form of numbers and money are now in the metro area. Tradition exists in many places in the north and in a host of places in the metro area (I am not excluding western or southern MN, just making a contrast). One resource that the north has compared to the metro area is indorr ice availability to 3 of players. These things allow the very small northern associations to ocnitnue to stay competitive with the metro area.
Of course there are exceptions every year and every place (and yes I know there are plaenty of small, 'poor', associations in the metro, too).

You asked a question, and I am giving you answers.

Technically the question was when they start not when they're picked, though I've not been up there, so I'll have to take your word if you say they step right into a tryout scrimmage with 8 months of rust on their skates.

No 'implications or insinuations', no 'better than thou', no 'pity me'.

Neither "better" nor "pity" had crossed my mind; "sandbagger" is the phrase I was thinking.

Not really a right or wrong, just different. I spoke with a northern parent at the Advanced 15 Festival that was really impressed with the strength and depth of the metro District teams. I was too. The four districts in the semifinals, 2, 8, 10 & 3 are all metro.

The kid up north has good distractions. They own an ATV, motorcycle, fish, hunt, wakeboard, play baseball and football and whatever else you can imagine a kid with those options at their finger tips would do. A metro kid might do the same if he lived in the nort.

Many metro kids don't have the same type of good distractions so they spend more time on the ice and in the driveway working on their game. These top kids are very impressive hockey players for such a young age. Actual genetic athletic ability can trump hours spent by a player with fewer natural athletic abilities as they grow older. For a Squirt, sheer hours can build a player. A stud high school player, with less on ice experience, can squish a Harry Potter type player that spent 100s of hours on the ice as a youth player. But, most every strong player is spending a lot of time on the ice so those examples aren't as frequent as they used to be. The path for the raw skilled youth player is more difficult today because the overall quality of all players has gone up so much. Kind of difficult to come out of the woodwork now a days.

I'm going to remain skeptical that kids up north spend the summer holdin hands and skimmin stones; nobody shoots 10,000 shots in the driveway, nobody stickhandles 3 times a week.

I also think it's humorous to state that because there are more than 2,000 people in a 30 mile radius kids in the metro obviously have nothing to do. Those of us that did not grow up in a tent found plenty to occupy us as kids; these days the options to our kids are sometimes downright frightening.

In addition, many smart folks have written in disagreement with your theory that a born athlete will 'trump' a hard worker.

My original question was in regards to the players that had apparently "come out of the woodwork"; you seem to dispell your own theory.