keegan iverson and paul bittner and mac caruth

[scorekeeper]

the number from the posted article said 24% in the CHL, well holy smokes turns out it close to 30!

Your guys article was riddles with innacuracies. It's not hard information to find.

The WHL is a league with only 506 players rosters a year (22 X 23) and yet they dish out 300+ full ride scholarships every year.

2012-13 was 301
http://www.whl.ca/article/whl-awards-30 ... s-to-grads

2011-12 was 300
http://www.whl.ca/article/whl-awards-30 ... -this-year

This is not hard information to find.

Additionally, a lot of kids finish their WHL careers with 2-3 years college already completed, as WHL players are encouraged to attend college WHILE with their WHL teams and on the teams dime.

Someone paraphrased earlier that NCAA coaches encouraged their players to at least get 3 years done before going pro , as it's easier to come back and finish that 3rd year. Well, WHL coaches offer the same encouragement and WL teams offer the same opportunity.

Most 16 year olds will finish his junior year with the team. Most 17 year olds will finish their senior year with the team. 18, 19 & 20 year olds are encouraged to attend college WHILE with the team, so they can graduate with 2 or 3 years under their belt.

In this manner, WHL players can achieve full ride Masters Degrees at the expense of their team.

No one holds a gun to their heads of course, and says you MUST, but it's available for those who want it.

[Tigers33]

Pretty sure birkholz got kicked off the team for smoking pot!

2112 - you sure got quiet when gopher blog put you in your place.

I wish scorekeeper would come out and admit that neither option is better then the other. They are both great routes with different pro's and con's.

Instead he is a stubborn mule and won't shut up. Lock this up!! It's been 7 pages of the same argument over and over.

[scorekeeper]

Please enlighten me, what's the downside?

It's already been brought up plenty by myself and others here.

Really? What is it then? You don't even know what the * it is? You are a complete joke.

Your agenda is to focus all on the good and try to ignore anything that undermines your arguments.

What is it then? Be specific? What undermines my argument? You put nothing forward. You copy and paste something off a WHL website and scream THIS IS FINE PRINT. You are a joke. You don't even know why you're arguing. Give me ONE example.

For example, I bring up examples like Gropp and Jones and you've got nothing to come back with on such situations. Why?

What about Gropp and Jones? Gropp is planning on going NCAA ... ok? So what? So he can't play with Seattle and then go NCAA. That's exactly what I've been saying. The NCAA throws the ultimatum out that if he plays in the WHL then he can't play in the NCAA. That's a fact. The ultimatum comes from the NCAA - NOT the WHL.

Because it ruins your idiotic statement that somehow NCAA "forces" kids to make decisions at 15 or 16.

No. It completely confirms it. You tell me, if Gropp had played with Seattle the last 2 years, could he go play in the NCAA? Yes or No? And by who's rule?

This is exactly what I am talking about. You sit there and make broad general statements about the "downside" of the WHL and yet you can't name one.

Good thing there is a sucker born every minute. Bloggers like you need em

[scorekeeper]

I wish scorekeeper would come out and admit that neither option is better then the other. They are both great routes with different pro's and con's.

I think I've said over and over they are both great routes. As I've said, the WHL is BETTER for MOST. Here in Minnesota, the NCAA route is BETTER than other places.

I am still waiting for someone to point out a valid "downside" of the WHL path. Hell, I can name 3 or 4 things I'd like to see fixed, but with it's warts it's still head and shoulders above the NCAA path both hockey and academically.

[keepyourheadup]

graduation rates

NCAA 84%

WHL "around 30 %"

Yet the chances of making it to the NHL are 1 in 25 or was it 6.7 percent.

My take is the kids leave, flame out in the minors and never use it.

I understand that the WHL see's Minny as an under utilized asset and its pretty clear you feel its the only way to go. Me, I'll stick with the belief that both systems have there merits and downfalls. The unwillingness to acknowledge it is just silly. All things being equal I'll take the college degree in hand at 23 years old.

[The Exiled One]

it's still head and shoulders above the NCAA path both hockey and academically.

...based on the opinion of a Canadian with a kid in the WHL.

[scorekeeper]

Me, I'll stick with the belief that both systems have there merits and downfalls. The unwillingness to acknowledge it is just silly. All things being equal I'll take the college degree in hand at 23 years old.

To each his own, but I'm curious ... if your selling point for the NCAA is a partially paid for bachelors degree at age 23, why not take a fully paid for Masters degree at age 25 or 26?

I'll ask again ... what's the WHL downside?

[The Exiled One]

I'll ask again ... what's the WHL downfall?

What if my goal is to be in the NHL and have a college degree?

[scorekeeper]

I'll ask again ... what's the WHL downfall?

What if my goal is to be in the NHL and have a college degree?

You can graduate from the WHL with 3 years of completed college and begin your NHL career, no different than the NHLers that come from the NCAA - a full 57% of them without completing college. I guess you take your NHL millions and complete the 4th year when it suits you. In that regard, kids who go quick to the NHL from either path are the same.

But for the kids who aren't fortunate enough to make the NHL, the WHL offers an opportunity to achieve a Masters degree on the teams dime. No NCAA program offers that.

[The Exiled One]

I'll ask again ... what's the WHL downfall?

What if my goal is to be in the NHL and have a college degree?

You can graduate from the WHL with 3 years of completed college and begin your NHL career, no different than the NHLers that come from the NCAA - a full 57% of them without completing college. I guess you take your NHL millions and complete the 4th year when it suits you. In that regard, kids who go quick to the NHL from either path are the same.

But for the kids who aren't fortunate enough to make the NHL, the WHL offers an opportunity to achieve a Masters degree on the teams dime. No NCAA program offers that.

You didn't answer my question.

[The Exiled One]

You can graduate from the WHL with 3 years of completed college and begin your NHL career, no different than the NHLers that come from the NCAA - a full 57% of them without completing college. I guess you take your NHL millions and complete the 4th year when it suits you. In that regard, kids who go quick to the NHL from either path are the same.

But for the kids who aren't fortunate enough to make the NHL, the WHL offers an opportunity to achieve a Masters degree on the teams dime. No NCAA program offers that.

You didn't answer my question.

Maybe you need glasses, or a grade 3 reading comprehension course. What can I say ... read it again.

I'll clarify. What if my goal is to get a completely free degree and be in the NHL at the age of 23?

[scorekeeper]

On the other side, you don't get to pick your NCAA team, as you are limited to those that make you offers, or, try your luck as a walk-on.

Like I said, if you're good enough to make one of those teams.

So, you're basically advocating the corrupt WHL tradition of falsely claiming to be interested in college so that you go undrafted or drop in the draft to your desired WHL team. Nice. Way to own up to the corruption.

LOL. Two things.

1.) Families pull that ploy, not WHL teams.

2.) That's not limited to the WHL prospects. Players eligible for the USHL Draft have tricky ways of going undrafted as well so they can pick their tryouts. Not showing up for combines and faking WHL interest works just as well in the USHL.

[scorekeeper]

I'll clarify. What if my goal is to get a completely free degree and be in the NHL at the age of 23?

Well, the only way to get a completely free degree is to come to the WHL. NCAA "full rides" are virtually non-existent. In fact, 57% of NHLers that come from the NCAA don't come with a degree in hand. Most come with 2-3 years college.
http://collegehockeyinc.com/articles/al ... rly-30-nhl

I suppose if you were really motivated, you might be able to squeeze in 4 years over a 3 year span in the WHL, OR, do what some of them are doing now and expediting your high school graduation so you can complete a full 4 years of college. I know of several WHLers have done this, including Josh Hanson of the Portland Winterhawks.

So, yes, you can achieve that goal through the WHL. It's a lofty goal and would take a motivated individual but it can and has been done. In fact, you can get there as young as 21 doing that through the WHL.

[The Exiled One]

1.) Families pull that ploy, not WHL teams.

Wut?

2.) That's not limited to the WHL. Players in the USHL Draft have tricky ways of going undrafted as well so they can pick their tryouts. Not showing up for combines and faking WHL interest works just as well in the USHL.

Even if that's true, how does it make it okay?

[Lazy Scout]

Of your 5 times you claim to answer the questions, you keep coming up with different statistical percentages. What's the downside? The downside is you only have 6.7% chance of making it to the show. That is coming from your own calculations. You sure are good at throwing a bunch of numbers out there to make it look like you actually know something. Your odds are pretty high that after a couple of years you will flame out and be that 10% trying to open your own business.

After all you are in the business of betting odds aren't you?

[Lazy Scout]

Of your 5 times you claim to answer the questions, you keep coming up with different statistical percentages. What's the downside? The downside is you only have 6.7% chance of making it to the show. That is coming from your own calculations. You sure are good at throwing a bunch of numbers out there to make it look like you actually know something. Your odds are pretty high that after a couple of years you will flame out and be that 10% trying to open your own business.

After all you are in the business of betting odds aren't you?

[scorekeeper]

1.) Families pull that ploy, not WHL teams.

Wut?

2.) That's not limited to the WHL. Players in the USHL Draft have tricky ways of going undrafted as well so they can pick their tryouts. Not showing up for combines and faking WHL interest works just as well in the USHL.

Even if that's true, how does it make it okay?

I'm not saying it is or isn't ok. But what does it have to do with any team or league?

[The Exiled One]

I'll clarify. What if my goal is to get a completely free degree and be in the NHL at the age of 23?

Well, the only way to get a completely free degree is to come to the WHL. NCAA "full rides" are virtually non-existent. In fact, 57% of NHLers that come from the NCAA don't come with a degree in hand. Most come with 2-3 years college.
http://collegehockeyinc.com/articles/al ... rly-30-nhl

I suppose if you were really motivated, you might be able to squeeze in 4 years over a 3 year span in the WHL, OR, do what some of them are doing now and expediting your high school graduation so you can complete a full 4 years of college. I know of several WHLers have done this, including Chase DeLeo of the Portland Winterhawks.

So, yes, you can achieve that goal through the WHL. It's a lofty goal and would take a motivated individual but it can and has been done. In fact, you can get there as young as 21 doing that through the WHL.

So 43% of NCAA NHL players have a degree compared to a minuscule percentage of WHL players. You just resold me on the NCAA.

[scorekeeper]

Of your 5 times you claim to answer the questions, you keep coming up with different statistical percentages. What's the downside? The downside is you only have 6.7% chance of making it to the show.

Well, no. They haven't changed at all.

You are refering to the historical percentage of 16 year olds success at the NHL draft. Of players who played there 16 year old season, 67% get drafted, 20.1% play in the NHL, 6.7% make careers of it.

I'd say 20.1% is a pretty nice chance to achieve ones dream. Those that play and don't stick ggeneraly have long careers in the AHL making 9K per month or better - off in Europe making 6 figures.

I'm not sure that's a downside.

And the numbers are what the numbers are. They don't change. You are just remembering them jumbled Go back and re-read

Nice try though

[scorekeeper]

So 43% of NCAA NHL players have a degree compared to a minuscule percentage of WHL players. You just resold me on the NCAA.

If 30-33% is miniscule ... I guess. Bear in mind, the lions share have achieved the dream of playing professional hockey. If that's your downside, then I guess that's your downside.

Bear in mind that the OPPORTUNITY to graduate is available to almost all. What a player does with the opportunity is his own business. If your goal is to get a degree, you will get one. Period.

That's not everybody's goal though. Most in the WHL have the goal of playing professional hockey. Specifically, the number 1 answer on surveys is;

"To go as far as I can in Hockey" ... and most of them realize that goal.

Education is definitely a priority for some and they also achieve that goal.

In the NCAA players are forced to attend school to play hockey. WHL clubs demand excellence from their high school students and afford university opportunities, but university is not mandatory. It's not like the opportunity to graduate isn't there, people just don't all share your goals and priorities, but for those who do, the college option is available both WHILE your with the team and afterwards.

[scorekeeper]

Great kid and great story. One of the smartest kids in his age group in the USA and thriving in the WHL while knocking out elite level college courses;
http://www.oregonlive.com/hawks/index.s ... 6_has.html

And also just came off the Memorial Cup Championship game playing with Keegan Iverson, Paul Bittner and Mac Caruth

[Lazy Scout]

Of your 5 times you claim to answer the questions, you keep coming up with different statistical percentages. What's the downside? The downside is you only have 6.7% chance of making it to the show.

Well, no. They haven't changed at all.

You are refering to the historical percentage of 16 year olds success at the NHL draft. Of players who played there 16 year old season, 67% get drafted, 20.1% play in the NHL, 6.7% make careers of it.

I'd say 20.1% is a pretty nice chance to achieve ones dream. Those that play and don't stick ggeneraly have long careers in the AHL making 9K per month or better - off in Europe making 6 figures.

I'm not sure that's a downside.

And the numbers are what the numbers are. They don't change. You are just remembering them jumbled Go back and re-read

Nice try though

Please back up even just one of your stats with a reliable source. Right now you are still throwing out a bunch of BS with nothing to back it up.
You are about 98% full of BS and within that 98% and about 30% is inaccurate and only about 6.7% makes any sense. I could go on and throw out my own numbers and call it for what it is worth without any evidence. Lets agree that the WHL is in the business of developing hockey players not college graduates.

The odds that these kids make it are about the same as a royal flush? Wouldn't you agree?

If your dream is for your kid to try and make it in the NHL but end up playing European hockey for a few years, then deciding to open a business than go for it. One less kid competing for that NCAA scholarship.

[karl(east)]

Does anyone have anything to say that hasn't been said already, or has this thread run out of gas?

[east hockey]

Does anyone have anything to say that hasn't been said already, or has this thread run out of gas?

It's been running on empty for awhile.

Lee

[blueblood]

Time to lock it down....