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SnowedIn wrote:

Shinbone_News wrote:

JSR wrote: Wow, what an interesting article. What did I say about adapting/changing or dying earlier. AAU doesn't have to listen to MN HOckey or USA Hockey, get enough people involved and AAU could just go and do what we've been discussing/debating without any need for proposals etc...... I think you are seeign in MI because I think they have an extreme to one side of the fence in that state with their structure, hoenstly I could see this happeneing in MN because it is also an extreme case only toward a different side of the fence. Want to keep AAU out of MN, better start thinking of ways to change and adapt...... just saying....

Not sure you read the whole article. E.G.::::

We find a disturbing trend in Michigan. Too many young players have come into our sport only to leave a few years later. We’ve lost over 13,000 youth players during the past 10 years (that’s one-third). Some are the most advanced and some the least advanced.
Why are we losing so many players! I would suggest that some of the causes are; restrictive District rules, a lack of parity at almost every level, high costs, denial of and the over emphasis upon creating elite athletes and elite teams while ignoring those seeking simple recreation.

My emphasis. Yes, Minnesota should look to Michigan (and Massachusetts and New York and Illinois and Wisconsin) for an answer!!!!

AAU has emerged in MI as an alternative BECAUSE of tier 1's insidious effect on community based hockey, as a way to keep hockey local and affordable and approachable for non-elite players.

Last thing I'll say on this thread: If a Tier 1 choice means that much to you, go ahead and move (or start saving for Shattuck). Last I heard, the Interstates are open for business, even to Very Talented Hockey Parents.

Your NHLer will pay you back for all the time and $$$$ spent, I'm sure.

Good of you to cherry pick your favorite quotes but you missed a few:

Quotes on District Rules:

"we don’t plan to restrict players from participating wherever they choose."

"Clearly, there isn’t anything wrong with having Districts for the purposes of Playoffs. However, Districts shouldn’t prohibit players from participating closer to home or with their cousins, neighbors or school-mates."

"Similarly, players with extraordinary skills should be free to play at an appropriate competition level, regardless where those opportunities are centered." ------kind of like how Tier 1 is set up to have the elite play against elite regardless of boundaries. The rest can play against players of like ability in association so they can better improve against like competition-------

Quotes on Parity of Play which supports elite players playing with elite, average with average and novice with novice because nobody benefits from mixing them:

"What we should really be working towards in Michigan youth hockey is providing opportunities for all, while at the same time trying to achieve a degree of parity at each level of play. There should be a place for the advanced players to be challenged by advanced competition. There should also be a place for those just starting out, those who maybe aren’t as advanced or may merely want to play with their friends.

We all need to be challenged in order to grow. When we have teams or programs lacking in parity then our young athletes don’t grow as they should. It can be argued that many adults spend too much time trying to create elite athletes and are ignoring kids who merely wish to play. For example, Michigan is completely upside-down with far more Travel and our House programs are almost non-existent.

However, it can also be argued that the worst thing we can do to young athletes is to create a one-size-fits-all program, which forces advanced players and beginners into the same programs. Truly advanced players should be competing against others of similar ability. A system allowing extremely advanced players and teams to compete against those just beginning or severely lacking in skills helps no players. The advanced don’t progress and get cocky because they aren’t challenged. The less advanced players get frustrated because they are in way over their head. And we see players of all skill levels leaving our sport."

--------we already have association hockey to capture the tier 2 level hockey with a lot of kids in it (with the only problem being that you get cornholed with a coach for better or worse). we don't have non-districted hockey for the elite athletes of which there may only be a few give or take on each A team. That's what tier 1 does - best players no boundaries-------

A no-brainer concept, very successful all over north america and will not hurt association or highschool hockey.

NicePass wrote:Hey guys, long time lurker in MO, finally made an account to post.

Enjoyed this thread a lot. Have the same issues here that you guys do, with some parents feeling they have to spend a lot and go outside the associations to get something/more/better. Kids travelling too far and too early because everyone else does it. True, as a result you do get better talent at the tier 1 and tier 2 level (here, I can't speak for other states) but it's pricey of course in dollars and then there are hidden costs in time and potential burnout. Navigating that line between committed, responsible parent and Barry McConnell (arguments for game: 8 ). There are a lot of good players who play AA and don't do more. I don't know the answer however on what is recommended path for that kid once he gets above 15, national dev program, heading off somewhere to live with a family etc. That's such a small percentage of people I don't think about it.

I appreciate reading all your thoughts on this one. We don't have Machine or MM here, and high school hockey is not as healthy as we'd like it to be, but overall it's a good region to play hockey. You hope you can make good decisions and the kid can be as good as he wants to be and still enjoy being a kid, playing soccer, baseball and lacrosse when he can, or other activities at school. As a dad and a coach you focus on development and fun and you teach that work can augment talent, but realistically you only worry about this year and thinking of high school or beyond, a sliver of a chance at juniors or D1 college etc, is likely just a dream. Build good young men (and women) and good athletes. If they play hockey a long time and enjoy it, I'll be happy.

cheers,

O-townClown wrote:A Tier I schedule might look like:

Sept - TBD
Oct - Warrior
Nov - Bauer Invite
Dec - go to a Super Series
Jan - host a Super Series
Feb - EHF
Mar - playoffs to go to District/Nationals

Throw in a league like HPC or Tier I Elite.

How much money is Combat throwing in to whittle down those travel costs?

Rusty Blades wrote:Here's what my son's schedule is this year. U-13 Colorado Thunderbirds.

Sept-local Early Bird Tournament against 98 Bantam AA teams
Sept- Buffalo Super Series
Oct- Warrior Cup in Detroit
Nov- Bauer- Chicago
Nov- Local tournament vs 98 Bantam AA
Dec- We host Super Series
Jan- Detroit Showcas
Jan- Possible trip to Boston Super Series
Feb- Chicago Showcae
Feb- Super Series Cup if they are ranked in the top 15

The bes thing about the travel is that flights to the cities they are visiting are fairly reasonable. Just booked flights to Chicago for $142 round trip.

Quasar wrote:For those that think Tier 1 hockey cost's $20,000 to $30,000 have a look at this.. Pasted from the "Beyond The Pond" web site.

"All of Team Combat players will receive a Team Combat Pro Bag, home and away jersey's/socks, Pant Covers, home and away helmets and Team Combat Pro Knit 4 rolled gloves. All players receive discounts on Combat Merchandise."

Program cost $750.00!!!!

This is for a Minnesota based summer tournament team if I understood what I read.. Sponsors can play a big part in reducing the costs associated with hockey. I think some variation on this theme is what hockey will look like in Minnesota's future.
Lots of ice sheets, lots of talent, 1 hour travel time from anywhere in Mpls, St. Paul to most metro venues.

I'm just tired of hearing about Detroit!!

Rusty Blades wrote:Here's what my son's schedule is this year. U-13 Colorado Thunderbirds.

Sept-local Early Bird Tournament against 98 Bantam AA teams
Sept- Buffalo Super Series
Oct- Warrior Cup in Detroit
Nov- Bauer- Chicago
Nov- Local tournament vs 98 Bantam AA
Dec- We host Super Series
Jan- Detroit Showcase
Jan- Possible trip to Boston Super Series
Feb- Chicago Showcase
Feb- Super Series Cup if they are ranked in the top 15

The best thing about the travel is that flights to the cities they are visiting are fairly reasonable. Just booked flights to Chicago for $142 round trip.

Shinbone_News wrote:

Quasar wrote:For those that think Tier 1 hockey cost's $20,000 to $30,000 have a look at this.. Pasted from the "Beyond The Pond" web site.

"All of Team Combat players will receive a Team Combat Pro Bag, home and away jersey's/socks, Pant Covers, home and away helmets and Team Combat Pro Knit 4 rolled gloves. All players receive discounts on Combat Merchandise."

Program cost $750.00!!!!

This is for a Minnesota based summer tournament team if I understood what I read.. Sponsors can play a big part in reducing the costs associated with hockey. I think some variation on this theme is what hockey will look like in Minnesota's future.
Lots of ice sheets, lots of talent, 1 hour travel time from anywhere in Mpls, St. Paul to most metro venues.

I'm just tired of hearing about Detroit!!

Q, not sure what your point is -- that Tier 1 doesn't have to be expensive thanks to the possibility of unrealized advertising potential even though the teams are actually called Compuware, Russell Stover, Belle Tire??? -- but the main reason why Combat can be so cheap is because of Minnesota's not-for-profit community rinks where ice costs about $175 per hour. Compare that to Detroit, or Chicago, or LA. Not unheard of for ice to be $600 or more an hour in those places. (Incidentally, not necessarily because of supply/demand, but because the rinks are owned as for-profit businesses).

This is a huge factor that no one ever talks about.

Ice is the single biggest expense for almost every association in Minnesota, and our ice is comparatively cheap (that's why our association fees don't touch Tier 1 AAA costs. And it IS $20K per year for lots of those players and their parents. My sister in Chicago is one of them.)

old goalie85 wrote:Rusty how do you do any icefishing ??? I don't get it, my shack is less than a mile from the rink. Then again that's my "CHOICE".

Ugottobekiddingme wrote:I guess I keep asking the question towards why a clown from Florida should have any input towards MN Hockey...again why from a clown?

Ugottobekiddingme wrote:I guess I'll ask the question again, why is a clown from Florida adding input to a MN Hock Tier 1 posting that has zero relevance to his/hers outside observer observations whether amusing or bewildering to one self?

Ugottobekiddingme wrote:Terrific...time for USA hockey to take a break and let us manage hockey.

O-townClown wrote:

Ugottobekiddingme wrote:I guess I keep asking the question towards why a clown from Florida should have any input towards MN Hockey...again why from a clown?

Sorry. If you've ever asked and not gotten an answer it is because I didn't see the question. How many times have you asked?

I don't care at all what folks do in Minnesota. We have enough challenges here. As I've said many times, the issues everywhere are essentially the same and learning more about how things are governed everywhere is helpful.

To this outside observer it is somewhere between amusing and bewildering to see the viewpoints of others. "Choice" has been held up by many as a panacea. If that were the case I wouldn't have been ambushed by an angry husband and wife today! We have the most liberal rostering rules in all of North America and they still aren't happy.