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Wild4hockey wrote:This is more of a comment about the economy as a whole, but given the cafe readership this is just as good of a thread as starting a new one. I read an article yesterday that said the World economy and specifically the U.S. could be positioned to experience one of the five worst financial crisis in modern history. How do you feel about this? Is the government and Federal Reserve taking the appropriate steps to prevent this or is the sub-prime mess to wide reaching and destined to have very damaging effects to our economy no matter what the Fiscal and Monetary response is?

I moved all my money to safe investments today...I think that says how I feel.
And I wish I would have done it this past fall.
I went thru the 1987 and 2000 market dives and I'm not doing it again.
Today even with the 3/4 point drop in interest rate, the markets are down 1.3% for the dow and 2.1% for Nasdaq...so far, and after the dow being down 465 pts at one point today.What will tomorrow bring when they see the plan to stabilize or stimulate is not working. It's time to play it safe for a while for me, and find the right time to jump back in later.

Can't Never Tried wrote: I moved all my money to safe investments today...I think that says how I feel.

I am not moving any of my $
It will all be staying in the mattress and in the mason jars buried in the backyard

Im letting mine ride.

Ignore the sheep mentality (read CNT) and stay in for the long term. The majority of Americans hear "buy low, sell high", but in practice they "buy high, sell low". Look back the past 80-90 years and you would see many periods where when going got tough, folks bailed out only to say, "If only I would have stayed in, or purchased more....". Remember to be a long-term investor in a short-term, sound bite world. That is, in fact, if you are a truly a long-term investor(definitely over 5yrs, closer to . Screw the rebate idea - that just puts us further in the red. This to shall pass.

AY

What is this "money" you guys keep referring to?

Is that anything like the stuff that makes it's way into my wallet every couple of weeks, only to be stolen by Mrs. Govs within minutes?

AngusYoung wrote:Ignore the sheep mentality (read CNT) and stay in for the long term. The majority of Americans hear "buy low, sell high", but in practice they "buy high, sell low". Look back the past 80-90 years and you would see many periods where when going got tough, folks bailed out only to say, "If only I would have stayed in, or purchased more....". Remember to be a long-term investor in a short-term, sound bite world. That is, in fact, if you are a truly a long-term investor(definitely over 5yrs, closer to . Screw the rebate idea - that just puts us further in the red. This to shall pass.

AY

I agree with AY to a point.

However, the buy and hold philosphy can kill you if you think you can pick individual stocks. Take your profits now. They asked a prominent financial figure once how he made money in the stock market and his response was "I sold too soon".

IRA's, 401Ks , etc absolutely. Throw your money in , as much as you can, and forget about it.

AngusYoung wrote:Ignore the sheep mentality (read CNT) and stay in for the long term. The majority of Americans hear "buy low, sell high", but in practice they "buy high, sell low". Look back the past 80-90 years and you would see many periods where when going got tough, folks bailed out only to say, "If only I would have stayed in, or purchased more....". Remember to be a long-term investor in a short-term, sound bite world. That is, in fact, if you are a truly a long-term investor(definitely over 5yrs, closer to . Screw the rebate idea - that just puts us further in the red. This to shall pass.

AY

Yes, I did stay in both times Angus, and even with aggressive investing it took way to long to get "all square", it's not about getting out for ever, it's knowing that you can put your money in safe harbor for a while until this mortgage thing works its way out, watch this market plummet and then buy back in cheap without suffering the loss.
Sheep my axe that's what all the brokers want you to do, you stay in while they get out... oh that's right they're not selling, the market is just going down for a magical reason.
Enjoy your losses AY, I'll be buying that stock back your holding for a lot less in six to 9 months and a lot more shares.

packerboy wrote:

AngusYoung wrote:Ignore the sheep mentality (read CNT) and stay in for the long term. The majority of Americans hear "buy low, sell high", but in practice they "buy high, sell low". Look back the past 80-90 years and you would see many periods where when going got tough, folks bailed out only to say, "If only I would have stayed in, or purchased more....". Remember to be a long-term investor in a short-term, sound bite world. That is, in fact, if you are a truly a long-term investor(definitely over 5yrs, closer to . Screw the rebate idea - that just puts us further in the red. This to shall pass.

AY

I agree with AY to a point.

However, the buy and hold philosphy can kill you if you think you can pick individual stocks. Take your profits now. They asked a prominent financial figure once how he made money in the stock market and his response was "I sold too soon".

IRA's, 401Ks , etc absolutely. Throw your money in , as much as you can, and forget about it.

As far as 401Ks keep putting in no doubt, the match you get is worth it alone.
But even in these accounts, most have the ability to move their money within the funds available to them, and all have safe accounts you can utilize short term.

I personally believe that individuals who think they can pick stocks are fooling themselves.

I also think it is foolish to try and time the market.

Take a look at this chart for example:

INTC

A great company but you better know when to buy and when to sell.

CNT - Let us all know when the correct time is to "jump back in". You must be a great market timer. How do you know when you get back in another "crisis" won't develop and stocks plummet further? There is a major difference between savers and investors - not right or wrong just different mentality.

AY

AngusYoung wrote:CNT - Let us all know when the correct time is to "jump back in". You must be a great market timer. How do you know when you get back in another "crisis" won't develop and stocks plummet further? There is a major difference between savers and investors - not right or wrong just different mentality.

AY

I didn't tell anyone to get out, I won't to get back in either, and we are talking about high risk investments being moved to safer money in a volatile market, not getting out of investing..if that's foolish, then foolish it is....
I have learned this... that money in the market goes away a lot faster then it comes back.



Did your heart flutter a bit when it dipped 465 today Angus?

It did?

AY

packerboy wrote:I personally believe that individuals who think they can pick stocks are fooling themselves.

I also think it is foolish to try and time the market.

Take a look at this chart for example:

INTC

A great company but you better know when to buy and when to sell.

Well it depends on how you define "individuals" because Warren Buffet is pretty damn good at picking companies i.e. stocks. He is more the exception, than the rule so I find no fault in your argument. I remember a few years back they put monkey, a dart board and professional traders in a competition. I won't tell you who won, but I am guessing you can figure it out.

Wild4hockey wrote:

packerboy wrote:I personally believe that individuals who think they can pick stocks are fooling themselves.

I also think it is foolish to try and time the market.

Take a look at this chart for example:

INTC

A great company but you better know when to buy and when to sell.

Well it depends on how you define "individuals" because Warren Buffet is pretty damn good at picking companies i.e. stocks. He is more the exception, than the rule so I find no fault in your argument. I remember a few years back they put monkey, a dart board and professional traders in a comptetion. I won't tell you who won, but I am guessing you can figure it out.

That is exactly why the key is Time IN the market not timing the market

Wild4,

Buffet picks a lot of losers.

But he has the resources to buy a lot of stocks so it works out. Most individuals dont.

I agree with BIAFP but not as it relates to individual stocks. Intel was trading at $20 , 10 years ago. Its now at $18. In between it has hit 70.
If you own that stock, time in does you no good but timing can.

packerboy wrote:Wild4,

Buffet picks a lot of losers.

But he has the resources to buy a lot of stocks so it works out. Most individuals dont.

I agree with BIAFP but not as it relates to individual stocks. Intel was trading at $20 , 10 years ago. Its now at $18. In between it has hit 70.
If you own that stock, time in does you no good but timing can.

If you bought 100 shares of Intel in 1992 at $15 per share your cost was $1500. If you held it until today at $19 with the splits you would have 3200 shares or $60,800 and that is not including reinvesting the dividends. I guess buy and hold is a really bad idea

BIAFP wrote:

packerboy wrote:Wild4,

Buffet picks a lot of losers.

But he has the resources to buy a lot of stocks so it works out. Most individuals dont.

I agree with BIAFP but not as it relates to individual stocks. Intel was trading at $20 , 10 years ago. Its now at $18. In between it has hit 70.
If you own that stock, time in does you no good but timing can.

If you bought 100 shares of Intel in 1992 at $15 per share your cost was $1500. If you held it until today at $19 with the splits you would have 3200 shares or $60,800 and that is not including reinvesting the dividends. I guess buy and hold is a really bad idea

Aaaahh, what if you bought it at $70. Somebody did.

packerboy wrote:

BIAFP wrote:

packerboy wrote:Wild4,

Buffet picks a lot of losers.

But he has the resources to buy a lot of stocks so it works out. Most individuals dont.

I agree with BIAFP but not as it relates to individual stocks. Intel was trading at $20 , 10 years ago. Its now at $18. In between it has hit 70.
If you own that stock, time in does you no good but timing can.

If you bought 100 shares of Intel in 1992 at $15 per share your cost was $1500. If you held it until today at $19 with the splits you would have 3200 shares or $60,800 and that is not including reinvesting the dividends. I guess buy and hold is a really bad idea

Aaaahh, what if you bought it at $70. Somebody did.

You would have to ask CNT I suppose

BIAFP wrote:

packerboy wrote:

BIAFP wrote:
If you bought 100 shares of Intel in 1992 at $15 per share your cost was $1500. If you held it until today at $19 with the splits you would have 3200 shares or $60,800 and that is not including reinvesting the dividends. I guess buy and hold is a really bad idea

Aaaahh, what if you bought it at $70. Somebody did.

You would have to ask CNT I suppose

Sorry I bought GM and 3M 20 years ago

That GM stock will make nice wallpaper pretty soon!

CNT may have also went through the 2007/2008 market dive, and he doesn't even know it,......yet. Wasn't the market much higher last fall? If this is a bottom, and the market goes up from here, in 6 to 9 months he will be buying back higher,....or keeping the "safer money".

I think only the broker gets rich when we try to move money around.

The banks are in trouble with the mortgage problem, and the economy doesn't appear to be growing at the same rate (but it is growing) that it has in the last few years, not going to deny it. However, in listening to the media, it seems vaguely familiar to the "economic crisis" prior to the 1992 election. If that is the case, maybe CNT has guessed right. Bottom line,......it is a guess.

Knowlzee wrote:CNT may have also went through the 2007/2008 market dive, and he doesn't even know it,......yet. Wasn't the market much higher last fall? If this is a bottom, and the market goes up from here, in 6 to 9 months he will be buying back higher,....or keeping the "safer money".

I think only the broker gets rich when we try to move money around.

The banks are in trouble with the mortgage problem, and the economy doesn't appear to be growing at the same rate (but it is growing) that it has in the last few years, not going to deny it. However, in listening to the media, it seems vaguely familiar to the "economic crisis" prior to the 1992 election. If that is the case, maybe CNT has guessed right. Bottom line,......it is a guess.

Yep, or what you call a gut feeling, after having been punched in it enough.
And yes it's down from last fall, but again today so far down another 270 pts.
First time in 25 years I felt the urge to pull back....I hope it pays off.

Oh sure I felt the urge in 87 but that was after I lost 40% of my value

Whens this rebate supposed to happen,when will we get it in our hands?

PASTRAPIDSFAN wrote:Whens this rebate supposed to happen,when will we get it in our hands?

Should start the payouts in the 1st Qtr. of the year. Payments will start based on amount paid in(most first, least last) as it should be

BIAFP wrote:

PASTRAPIDSFAN wrote:Whens this rebate supposed to happen,when will we get it in our hands?

Should start the payouts in the 1st Qtr. of the year. Payments will start based on amount paid in(most first, least last) as it should be

Absolutely. Thank you "W", for everything.

"The decisions we make in Washington have a direct impact on the people in our country, obviously." --George W. Bush, New Albany, Ind., Nov. 13, 2007