HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

jackstraw wrote:The NHL is dying out? Since I first became aware of hockey at a young age, hockey has become a truly international sport. How many hockey games are played every night? How many instances of contact in all those games? How many serious injuries? I have watched 100's of games (1000's?) and have only seen a few serious injuries. I think you are over reacting just a tad.

Their numbers are declining. I've read rumors of the NHL pulling out of southern cities and contracting teams. They have gooned it up so bad it has become borderline unwatchable. Not only are they a distant #4 in the major sports, they will become #5 behind NASCAR within a few years.

They are also losing players to European leagues and that trend will continue as salaries in Europe are becoming close enough to keep European talent at home. Guess what? MUCH less checking and goon hockey over there.

There are way too many hits from behind. I see at least one per game, and I say the same thing every time " that was just stupid " Maybe there is no intent to hurt the player, but its a gamble every time. Another thing I have noticed is whoever's team did the hit will say he turned at the last second. This does happen once in a while, but blatant hits from behind are ridiculus. Aother stupid thing I hear is that the player has to learn to protect himself better, Yeah right, protect yourself from cheap shots. I love the physical part of the game. Checking belongs in hockey, and always will, but hitting for the sake of hitting especially when someone is in a vulnerable position just isn't necessary.

WB6162,

You literally have no idea what you are talking about in any of your comments. I bet you loved Slap Shot 2. Hitting is part of the game. If you don't like it, then play a different sport. PERIOD.....Oh and by the way I am no bigger than 5"8 and am saying this, and hitting is not apart of my game

No way! Its hockey, not golf! Its part of the game!

I agree that hitting is part of the game and should remain. The players start to learn checking in PeeWees, and by high school all varsity and JV players should be able to absorb a LEGAL check. And as has been mentioned by a couple of others, doing away with checking would put Minnesota high school players at a big disadvantage for advancement to higher levels.

That said, I have no tolerance whatsoever for blatant, illegal checks from behind, or any kind of hits to the head (like the hit on Nick Leddy that put him out for a third of his freshman year at the U). I think the penalties for these infractions should be much stiffer, as in multi-game suspensions. And not just when the player at the receiving end suffers a serious injury. There is often a fine line between a player getting up right away, uninjured, and a career-ending, illegal hit.

I also HATE late checks. By 'late' I mean running a player well after he has gotten rid of the puck. Some like to call it "finishing a check" but this has gotten out of hand. Why isn't this at least called interference, as the player no longer has the puck? For blatant late hits, I wish there was a penalty like there is in football, like when a player is already down or out of bounds. The same should apply to hits well after the whistle is blown, like you often see after scrambles in front of the net.

So in summary checking - including HARD checking - should remain at the high school level, but there are changes that could be made to reduce the number of serious injuries while at the same time rewarding hockey skill and fast play.

But here's a question. If there's no checking in high school, how are college coaches going to teach 20 year old kids how to hit?
Kids learn more when they are young. If they are taught how to hit correctly at the PeeWee and Bantam levels, then they reduce the goons who are running around "head hunting"

I just got around to read this topic. Wow. You know what you're getting into when you lace it up. Play another sport. Play golf or roller hockey or whatever floats your boat. If they take away checking from Minnesota High School Hockey, I am moving to Canada.

WB6162 wrote:Some business associates and myself were discussing the Woodbury injury this morning and the subject of eliminating all checking came up. What do you folks think about that? Someone here made a good point that HS hockey would be a great sport without the checking, it would showcase the pure skaters and passers and shooters much more and the goalies would be much better prepared for the next level because the shots would be much higher as would the scoring.

If a kid has the skills to advance to the next level, then the checking starts (college and pros) and physically a 19 year old kid is much better suited to the hits than a 14-17 year old.

Maybe it's time.

I give you the fact that hockey is a tough sport. By tough I mean physically tough, not as physical as football, but it is physical. Would you believe that basketball players recieve comparable numbers of injuries as hockey players??? Think about it: two teams of teenagers in a game of hockey skating around fully decked out in protective gear vs. two teams of teenagers in a heated game of basketball running around in .....what? shorts and a tee shirt???? on a hard floor.... injuries are very unfortunate, and accidents happen. I am positive that some Minnesotan died in a car accident in the past week, should we all quit driving because some people are idiots(ie people who were purple for a living) behind the wheel??
As far as checking's place in hockey. It definitely has a place. When done correctly, checking enhances the game. Big hits, or a team just plain playing more physical at a point in the game, oftentimes swings the momentum. This said, I would like to know the last time anyone has seen a propler hip check.... not for awhile I'm sure and if I'm wrong, it was a long time since the one before that.

As far as ridding it from the game, never will happen, its the nature of the beast.

WB6162 wrote:Some business associates and myself were discussing the Woodbury injury this morning

When was this? Is there footage? I dont mind the checking in this sport, it just kinda adds a sorta advantage to the bigger not as fast players to give a variable to the faster skaters. Im either way on this, checking adds intensity not doubt, but without it the game moves a lot faster.

The only reason you even started this is because somebody from your hometown got hurt. I bet if it was the other way around you would have no problem with hitting in hockey.

I give you the fact that hockey is a tough sport. By tough I mean physically tough, not as physical as football, but it is physical. Would you believe that basketball players recieve comparable numbers of injuries as hockey players??? Think about it: two teams of teenagers in a game of hockey skating around fully decked out in protective gear vs. two teams of teenagers in a heated game of basketball running around in .....what? shorts and a tee shirt???? on a hard floor.... injuries are very unfortunate, and accidents happen. I am positive that some Minnesotan died in a car accident in the past week, should we all quit driving because some people are idiots(ie people who were purple for a living) behind the wheel??
As far as checking's place in hockey. It definitely has a place. When done correctly, checking enhances the game. Big hits, or a team just plain playing more physical at a point in the game, oftentimes swings the momentum. This said, I would like to know the last time anyone has seen a propler hip check.... not for awhile I'm sure and if I'm wrong, it was a long time since the one before that.

As far as ridding it from the game, never will happen, its the nature of the beast.

I agree, checking should be legal, and even if they ever get rid of checking, people will still do it. If checking is a penalty, then people will not check someone softly. If they are going to take a penalty, there going to do damage.
Slashing, hooking, tripping, etc. are all penalties and yet you still see it happen. Also, a checking penalty would be a discretionary call. It would be different among all officials as to what they think is a body check and what they think is just light contact.

Never is a long time.

*When I grew up there were no face masks, I never would have thought that would change, then 1 year they were mandated.
*Professionals didn't wear helmets, they were for sissies. Now many have visors and there's talk of those becoming mandatory.
*Sticks were wood and had a maximum length and that prevented 6'6" 250 lb defensemen from playing.
*Checking from behind was legal and there were less injuries because, much like diving into the shallow end of a pool, you never put yourself in position to get hit from behind, now you have kids doing it and worse turning their backs to draw a penalty.
*blue line was icing, no two line passes were allowed, goalies could handle the puck anywhere, shootouts were not a way to settle a hockey game, etc. etc.

Never is a long time, the game evolves. My guess is someday they'll do away with checking to make hockey more appealing to the masses. You watch an Olympic game or an NHL All Star game and you rarely see a check thrown and nobody says that's bad for hockey.

mghockey18 wrote:It's part of the game. If you can't handle it, then go play a different sport. Grow a pair

Agreed.

goldy313 wrote: Never is a long time, the game evolves.

This is true, but I don't see them making checking illegal for a long time

mghockey18, if you think the sport is today what it was 20 years ago, you're wrong. The sport has slowly moved away from the rules to this goon, "check first" approach where high school is more entertaining than professional. The only professional sport where players prefer to stay abroad.

bender09, you have to have maybe watching one game if you haven't seen intentional checking from behind. Reference comment one, 14-19 year old kids don't think about the consequences of their actions. It's cool (to them and peers) to get a big hit and just as cool (for whatever reason) if they don't see it coming. It isn't called OFTEN, so really, we can't blame them.

MNHockeyFan, I agree with you completely. The checking takes away from the game. If they called late checking, we'd see a week where games were all 3 on 3 and then things would change...for the better.

Does anyone else think it is crazy that hits are a POSITIVE stat in fantasy hockey? I started playing and thought it would be negative but was told it shows aggression, leadership, etc, etc. How dumb.

I think goldy313 made an interesting point about "you never put yourself in position to get hit from behind" about the past. That can go both ways.

Anyone else think it's ridiculous that you can do things on the ice and either get a no call or 2 minute penalty that if you did in the parking lot after the game you'd get arrested for or maybe kill/paralyze someone? You push someone into the boards from behind, no call, and get carried off in an ambulance, you feel bad, part of the game, you finish it. You push someone, they fall down, hit their head and get carried off, you get years in prison. Drastic, yes, but the point is made. "Playing a sport" they can be violent. Great.

No one ever wants to see a kid get hurt but checks are not only to seperate someone from the puck, they are also to intimidate. If you don't think so, you are kidding yourself and if you don't like it, don't play. Even clean hits aren't appreciated by the receiver, so they do serve a purpose.

Why would hits ever be a bad thing HSHockeywatcher, as a stat?

Dirty players and hits intended to injure have no place in the game and we need to find a way to police that. That being said, hits intended to flatten and embarrass are not dirty hits.

Unfortunately to many taking checking out of hockey would be like taking your driver out of your golf bag. The great players don't need it but to keep the game interesting you have to have it. I am sure they exist but I don't recall many of our "great" hockey players being heralded for their great checking ability. In fact I would hypothosize that they became great because they were in the game for a substantial length of time due to the fact that they avoided that aspect of the game.

scoreboard33, it's a bad stat, imo, because of how it is used now. If all hits were clean, it would be a good stat. But like many have said, "RARELY does a hit do anything for a team." Sure, it may intimidate, like you say, but if the team is one who gets intimidated simply by being hit a couple times, then you've won already. Like I've said, hits as written in rules are fine. Most hits, however, happen when they aren't supposed to.

I lived in the TC for the short period of time Jordan Schroeder was at St Thomas and got to see him play for the NTDP against SCSU where he scored the team's only two goals. His 8th grade year he was probably a top 5 forward in state, his freshman a top 5 player, and sophomore the best player in state hands down. I have one memory of a check locked in my mind and it was at Aldrich on a guy twice his size as the guy was going to the bench. Aside from that, hockeyfanatic99 is dead on about him; he's a great enough player to not need checking. Not only is he fast to the point he avoiding them, he doesn't need to make one...and if he does, he's taking himself out of the play.

If a defender pokes a puck away, they can pass it to a teammate. If they check a player to get the puck, most times they have taken themself out of the play and someone else has to get the puck.

Eliminate checking from high school hockey? Yeah, and I think they should all wear dresses and skirts when they play too. What a joke. Are you metrosexuals looking for all men to be de-balled? Enough is enough of this BS! The game of hockey is a rough and tough sport and if you can't handle it then go play soccer. Checking is a great part of the game. A proper body check delivered at the right time of any game can turn the momentum of that game. Oh sure, skating and passing are all nice but if your a puss and you can't take the hitting in the corners then your game will suffer as it should. Eliminate checking and you will ruin the game!!

Here here Puck81...

Checking is part of the fabric of the game, yes, the head hunting has to stop, but a good check to take the man off the puck is a necessity, whether its in the corner when a team/player is dominating the puck in cycle, or at mid ice when a Dman takes a forward off the puck... In the game of puck control, change of position is critical to the team with less of the puck, checking is warranted and required in our game...

Watcher: The "Jordan Schroeder" example has proven ill timed... As a Gopher season ticker holder, I have watched Jordan (playing soft and without passion lately) and his teammates, and playing the body more would greatly improve the Gophers success on the ice... playing soft, and watching the game, rather than participating in every facet, including body checking, translates into losses at the end of the game...

I would add this, we as coaches and parents have to do a better job of teaching the correct checking techniques when the kids are young... the head hunting we see at the Bantam & High School level has to stop now, too many kids are getting hurt, both checker & checkee...

Body checking has to be and should be a part of our great game of hockey.

Some of the best players don't hit, but many do and sometimes poke checks aren't as effective because a check also takes the other guys of the play.

Lots of good players hit. From the NHL dow

Look at Alex Ovechkin, Malkin, Thornton, Corey Parry, Ryan Getzlaf, Jarome Iginla, Dustin Penner, Phaneuf, Chara, Pronger, Regehr, Eric Johnson, Jack Johnson...

Look at how many hits the Edina team last year had. Leddy is willing to bang bodies. Oshie hit, Niskanen hit, Pat White hit...

Just because Schroeder doesn't hit doesn't mean that all good players don't hit.

This idea about great players not hitting, then using Jordan Schroeder as an example of a great player who may hit is ridiculous...... How are them Gophers doing??????? not a good example.

Checking is an important part of the game the hitting just for a hit is not,coaches at all levels need to do a better job of not only teaching how to check, but also how take one in all parts of the rink to protect yourself and your opponent.

The officials need to do a better job of enforcing the rules already in place especially at the high school level. At the high school level the officials need to call the game as it is supposed to be not which what the coaches or administrators want it called. The best example of this is the State HS tournament; how many times have you seen the hit,late or head first to the boards, the game stopped because of the injury caused and at the most the player received was a minor if any at all.

The BS has to stop, play the game, play hard, protect yourself and your opponent, it is not necessary to spend the rest of your life in a wheel chair.

Hockey is a team. He is a great player on a not so great team. Was top 15 in the nation in points last year.

Like always, missing the point. You can't show me where I said they shouldn't hit at all. I don't think that. But they shouldn't have a hit first mentality.

The thread was about getting rid of checking. Most of us agree that's not a good idea. I agree. But most of us also agree there's too much checking. Good, we can move on.

anyone have any video of the hit?