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Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:56 pm
by bloody bar down
Backcheck1 wrote:You hit the nail on the head. Some coaches have the bias to influence the ratings. Many of these coaches were the regular season coach for the players they are promoting. You mean to tell me that a player did not even have to show up to make the St. Cloud group!! I believe this because I know of a player that only played two of the three games last weekend and impressed the evaluator so much with his one goal that he made it to St. Cloud. Tell me why Conner Chambers, one of the more productive varsity freshman did not make the St. Cloud group. Minnesota Hockey needs to clean up its act with the select 15’s. We know how many don’t make it to the 16’s and I think it tells a story of how the 15’s are run. Before you attack me I don’t have a kid in this program.
Maybe he didn't make it because he didn't deserve to be picked. Just because you are a productive freshman at the powerhouse of Pequot Lakes does not mean anything. Connor is a nice player. But had he been at a bigger school with some depth he would not have played varsity hockey.
Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:05 pm
by muckandgrind
bloody bar down wrote:Backcheck1 wrote:You hit the nail on the head. Some coaches have the bias to influence the ratings. Many of these coaches were the regular season coach for the players they are promoting. You mean to tell me that a player did not even have to show up to make the St. Cloud group!! I believe this because I know of a player that only played two of the three games last weekend and impressed the evaluator so much with his one goal that he made it to St. Cloud. Tell me why Conner Chambers, one of the more productive varsity freshman did not make the St. Cloud group. Minnesota Hockey needs to clean up its act with the select 15’s. We know how many don’t make it to the 16’s and I think it tells a story of how the 15’s are run. Before you attack me I don’t have a kid in this program.
Maybe he didn't make it because he didn't deserve to be picked. Just because you are a productive freshman at the powerhouse of Pequot Lakes does not mean anything. Connor is a nice player. But had he been at a bigger school with some depth he would not have played varsity hockey.
Agreed. There will always be good players left out of St Cloud....What really bothers me is seeing posters say that "more deserving" players were not selected....how do THEY know who is more or less deserving? Have they seen every single one of the 102 boys play?
EVERY kid going to St. Cloud is a good player. There are no "bad" or "below average" player in the bunch. And I'm not trying to be "touchy-feely" here, either. I'm serious. Ever player has played hockey at a high level and impressed the coaches and scouts enough to get the invite. Good for them. For those that didn't make and think that "life is unfair" - you just learned a great lesson and take that to heart.
Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:11 pm
by Gems
Agreed. There will always be good players left out of St Cloud....What really bothers me is seeing posters say that "more deserving" players were not selected....how do THEY know who is more or less deserving? Have they seen every single one of the 102 boys play?
EVERY kid going to St. Cloud is a good player. There are no "bad" or "below average" player in the bunch. And I'm not trying to be "touchy-feely" here, either. I'm serious. Ever player has played hockey at a high level and impressed the coaches and scouts enough to get the invite. Good for them. For those that didn't make and think that "life is unfair" - you just learned a great lesson and take that to heart.[/quote]
Couldn't agree with you more...nice job.
Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:16 pm
by scienceguy
Chambers has been productive player not just in a small school, but with LSS, the Iceman and in last years walleye cup w/the combined iceman/LSS team. He had the most points on the D15 team last weekend. He was much more productive than Majerle who played varsity at Little Falls, because they couldn't field a Bantam A team. . He got screwed by the coach who wanted his grandson to advance.
muckandgrind wrote:bloody bar down wrote:Backcheck1 wrote:You hit the nail on the head. Some coaches have the bias to influence the ratings. Many of these coaches were the regular season coach for the players they are promoting. You mean to tell me that a player did not even have to show up to make the St. Cloud group!! I believe this because I know of a player that only played two of the three games last weekend and impressed the evaluator so much with his one goal that he made it to St. Cloud. Tell me why Conner Chambers, one of the more productive varsity freshman did not make the St. Cloud group. Minnesota Hockey needs to clean up its act with the select 15’s. We know how many don’t make it to the 16’s and I think it tells a story of how the 15’s are run. Before you attack me I don’t have a kid in this program.
Maybe he didn't make it because he didn't deserve to be picked. Just because you are a productive freshman at the powerhouse of Pequot Lakes does not mean anything. Connor is a nice player. But had he been at a bigger school with some depth he would not have played varsity hockey.
Agreed. There will always be good players left out of St Cloud....What really bothers me is seeing posters say that "more deserving" players were not selected....how do THEY know who is more or less deserving? Have they seen every single one of the 102 boys play?
EVERY kid going to St. Cloud is a good player. There are no "bad" or "below average" player in the bunch. And I'm not trying to be "touchy-feely" here, either. I'm serious. Ever player has played hockey at a high level and impressed the coaches and scouts enough to get the invite. Good for them. For those that didn't make and think that "life is unfair" - you just learned a great lesson and take that to heart.
Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:59 pm
by Jimbo99
scienceguy wrote:. He got screwed by the coach who wanted his grandson to advance.
And ya know what? Even IF that is what actually occurred, __IT happens too. At all levels, in all tryouts, every year. Be frustrated. Be disapointed. Even be angry for a while. But don't tear down the whole program or the rest of the kids who are participating.
The posters above are correct. All of those picked are deserving. There is no vast conspiracy. For the most part, there are just different opinions. It's a decent program run by a decent group of people doing their best.
Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 8:08 pm
by puckpride
Bloody Bar down- you have the class of a pig that soils himself! A 14 or 15 year old kids get his heart ripped out for not making St CLoud - he sees all his friends and teamates make it and then he has to listen to you say he wouldn't make a good highschool team! WHy would you do that to him??
Muckingrind- you agreed with him- I am ashamed and and feel bad that you can call out 14 year old on line and say this. You have been on here a lot and your comments are tarnished from here on. TERRIBLE
Feel free to anoymously brag about your kid or complain about refs or dumb parents or even Minnesota Made - but dont do what you did to an individual kid- he is hurt enough.
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 7:37 am
by muckandgrind
puckpride wrote:Bloody Bar down- you have the class of a pig that soils himself! A 14 or 15 year old kids get his heart ripped out for not making St CLoud - he sees all his friends and teamates make it and then he has to listen to you say he wouldn't make a good highschool team! WHy would you do that to him??
Muckingrind- you agreed with him- I am ashamed and and feel bad that you can call out 14 year old on line and say this. You have been on here a lot and your comments are tarnished from here on. TERRIBLE
Feel free to anoymously brag about your kid or complain about refs or dumb parents or even Minnesota Made - but dont do what you did to an individual kid- he is hurt enough.
You read me COMPLETELY wrong. I wasn't "calling out" a 14 year old kid....I'm not even saying that this kid isn't a great player. What I'm saying is that for people to say this kid "deserved" to go over someone else are out of line. My point was that there will always be good players who don't make it to St. Cloud. That's not an indictment on them, as players, or the players who did make it.
*EDIT* Now that I re-read my original post, I can see how you think I was piling on that player. ..by the fact I said "agreed". That wasn't my intent. The rest of my post states my feelings on this pretty clearly, though. I wasn't intending to rip on the kid at all, merely point out that LOT'S of good players don't make it to St. Cloud.
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 8:12 am
by old goalie85
Don't have a kid in this hunt. We had three from forest lake altogether.[15,16,17] From talking to some of the F.L. kids they all stated that if you are from Forest Lake you have to be twice as good as the kids from White Bear. Now this is out of the mouths of the kids not made up by some disgruntled parent. They went on to say that it is common knowledge about this situation at the 15 level. All three kids also would have liked to move on, but are enjoying baseball and can't wait to play all those all-stars from WBL next year. I took a look at White Bear's bantam record last year and expected to see a team that went undefeated with all that talent, not the case. I can understand Edina,East SSm, Ep, having multiple kids make it. But not six or eight kids from White Bear every year.
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 8:43 am
by bloody bar down
puckpride wrote:Bloody Bar down- you have the class of a pig that soils himself! A 14 or 15 year old kids get his heart ripped out for not making St CLoud - he sees all his friends and teamates make it and then he has to listen to you say he wouldn't make a good highschool team! WHy would you do that to him??
Muckingrind- you agreed with him- I am ashamed and and feel bad that you can call out 14 year old on line and say this. You have been on here a lot and your comments are tarnished from here on. TERRIBLE
Feel free to anoymously brag about your kid or complain about refs or dumb parents or even Minnesota Made - but dont do what you did to an individual kid- he is hurt enough.
Not my intent to rip on the kid at all. I should have made my point a little differently. There are many kids who do not make it that feel that they should. My point is that it does at times come down to where you play, who you have played against, and what you have done on that weekend. It does not always come down to who had the most points on a team. IS he dissapopinted? I am certain that he is. Will he take it as fuel to get better? I hope so. No one will know until it is all over. Many kids get better, many pack it in.
Reagrding the high school team comment, it was not directed at the player, though it seems at the surface it was. I apologize for that. More over it was directed at the poster who claimed that the player was one of the most productive freshman in the state. That can be debated all day long as it is opinion. If it is based on points, which it may have been then it is a possibility. But we all know that there is more to it than points. Fasching from AV is a productive freshman in a tough conference, in a tougher overall class of schools ( AA).
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:46 am
by SuperStar
I am curious to know what the turnover % of players from year to year are for these Select teams. For example does anyone know from previous years how many of the same kids were on the 15, 16's and 17's or how many new players made it from year to year...
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:09 am
by O-townClown
old goalie85 wrote:From talking to some of the F.L. kids they all stated that if you are from Forest Lake you have to be twice as good as the kids from White Bear. Now this is out of the mouths of the kids not made up by some disgruntled parent.
Very interesting. I keep thinking it has to be very difficult to instill a true drive in kids from Edina or wherever. This "chip" may help the kids that get passed over in the long run.
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:02 pm
by mghockey18
SuperStar wrote:I am curious to know what the turnover % of players from year to year are for these Select teams. For example does anyone know from previous years how many of the same kids were on the 15, 16's and 17's or how many new players made it from year to year...
There are about 5-8 kids that make it all the way through 15's, 16's, and 17's. Depends on the year.
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:01 pm
by puckpride
Thanks for clarifing Blood bar down and muckngrind- I know alot our kids read these and wanted to have those lines cleared up. I believe your intentions were right.
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 8:49 am
by greybeard58
Superstar,
From what I have heard coming out of some Mn Hockey meetings, there is approximately a 50% turnover from the 15's to 16's and 50% from 16's to 17's. I used to go to both festivals and would keep the programs from the previous years to make a comparison and it was fairly close to those percentages.
Since the 16's are run by High school coaches it is a little tougher for a second year bantam who is trying at the 16 level.
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:02 am
by SuperStar
GB and MGhock - Thanks for that info. 50% isn't a bad chance for the "sleepers" or the players that got passed over. Should be very interesting next year... How is a young 95 or a 2nd year bantam have a chance to even get nominated next year...
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:20 am
by OnFrozenPond
SuperStar wrote:GB and MGhock - Thanks for that info. 50% isn't a bad chance for the "sleepers" or the players that got passed over. Should be very interesting next year... How is a young 95 or a 2nd year bantam have a chance to even get nominated next year...
The HS coach would have to nominate them for 16's. This year our coach asked for the names of possible 94's on the Bantam team to nominate for 16's and made his selections from there. Most if not all were invited to the initial tryout. One made the section team.
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:41 am
by Nobodyonya
greybeard58 wrote:Superstar,
From what I have heard coming out of some Mn Hockey meetings, there is approximately a 50% turnover from the 15's to 16's and 50% from 16's to 17's. I used to go to both festivals and would keep the programs from the previous years to make a comparison and it was fairly close to those percentages.
Since the 16's are run by High school coaches it is a little tougher for a second year bantam who is trying at the 16 level.
Agreed. Just as tough for a young '95 1st year Bantam (8th grade) vs. a '95 2nd year Bantam/HS player (9th grade) to advance in the 15's selection.
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:37 am
by SuperStar
Would it make sense from 9th-12th grade to do it by class..? Freshman, Soph, ect....
Or would you run into the same ol' problem... a 95 next year as a 9th grader would have a advantage over a 96 9th grader - possible maturity, size, ect..But atleast they are in the same grade at school..
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:59 am
by Nobodyonya
SuperStar wrote:Would it make sense from 9th-12th grade to do it by class..? Freshman, Soph, ect....
Or would you run into the same ol' problem... a 95 next year as a 9th grader would have a advantage over a 96 9th grader - possible maturity, size, ect..But atleast they are in the same grade at school..
I think anyway you look at it's gonna be the same result. The younger players need to work that much harder to attain there goals.
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 1:08 pm
by keepmeoutofit
one of the nice things about Minnesota July cutoff for hockey is that younger kids that have played through the regular season in bantams or highschool are the older ones in the Advanced tryouts.
As for the second year bantams competing for select 16s. The kids that have been playing high school hockey may have an advantage if they played well but if they have had a rough season the coaches may have a hard time forgeting that at tryouts.
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:25 pm
by Gems
Nobodyonya wrote:greybeard58 wrote:Superstar,
From what I have heard coming out of some Mn Hockey meetings, there is approximately a 50% turnover from the 15's to 16's and 50% from 16's to 17's. I used to go to both festivals and would keep the programs from the previous years to make a comparison and it was fairly close to those percentages.
Since the 16's are run by High school coaches it is a little tougher for a second year bantam who is trying at the 16 level.
Agreed. Just as tough for a young '95 1st year Bantam (8th grade) vs. a '95 2nd year Bantam/HS player (9th grade) to advance in the 15's selection.
Is there a way to find out the birth years of players headed to St. Cloud to see the difference in the cut off date? I would be curious to see 2nd year players and 1st year players...is it 50/50? 60/40? 70/30? What is the normal ratio?
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:36 pm
by greybeard58
Gems,
You would have to contact Mn Hockey to get that information. The festival manager might have it, but I am not to sure if they will let that info out, maybe birth dates with no names and there might be a charge to recover the costs of the time it would take to put the information together.
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:22 pm
by Night Train
I'm pretty sure that Frederick provided that info. by designating the after July 1s with asterisks.
I will also add, since the question regarding percentage of returners has been asked, of the 8 D that went to NY as MN Advance 15s last year (94s) only 1 is returning this year as a 16. Almost total turnover.
Hockey Hub posted the information regarding Advanced 16 and 17 under the All Star Events tab.
http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/
The Minnesota Hockey site posted the final rosters for 16s and 17s invited to the National Camp.
http://www.minnesotahockey.org/
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:54 pm
by Gems
[quote="Night Train"]I'm pretty sure that Frederick provided that info. by designating the after July 1s with asterisks.
I will also add, since the question regarding percentage of returners has been asked, of the 8 D that went to NY as MN Advance 15s last year (94s) only 1 is returning this year as a 16. Almost total turnover.
So 17% (I counted 18 1st years) are 1st year players going to St. Cloud according to Frederick61...how does that compare to years prior? Normal? High? Low?...Fasching is a 1st year? Wow...
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 4:33 pm
by muckandgrind
Gems wrote:Night Train wrote:I'm pretty sure that Frederick provided that info. by designating the after July 1s with asterisks.
I will also add, since the question regarding percentage of returners has been asked, of the 8 D that went to NY as MN Advance 15s last year (94s) only 1 is returning this year as a 16. Almost total turnover.
So 17% (I counted 18 1st years) are 1st year players going to St. Cloud according to Frederick61...how does that compare to years prior? Normal? High? Low?...Fasching is a 1st year? Wow...
He's a first year "eligible bantam"....but played up at Bantams last year and this year played Varsity.