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Final/OT

Farmington: 3
Holy Angels: 2

rainier wrote:

HShockeywatcher wrote:

stpaul wrote:at Polar Arena in NSP
Hill-Murray 8, North St. Paul 4
shots 58-23

What is up with HM allowing numerous goals to lower CSC teams? They have allowed more goals to NSP and Mahtomedi than any other team in the state this year...

Considering it was 8-2 going into the third, I imagine HM's 3rd and 4th lines saw A LOT of ice time. Any respectable coach lets off the gas a little when overwhelming an inferior opponent.

If you consider 20 shots in the 3rd letting off the gas a bit. The 4th line saw some action, but not a lot. The 8th goal was Becker from Lavalle, and French.

GreekChurch wrote:

rainier wrote:

HShockeywatcher wrote: What is up with HM allowing numerous goals to lower CSC teams? They have allowed more goals to NSP and Mahtomedi than any other team in the state this year...

Considering it was 8-2 going into the third, I imagine HM's 3rd and 4th lines saw A LOT of ice time. Any respectable coach lets off the gas a little when overwhelming an inferior opponent.

If you consider 20 shots in the 3rd letting off the gas a bit. The 4th line saw some action, but not a lot. The 8th goal was Becker from Lavalle, and French.

Letting off the gas and not playing defense are two very different things. Which is mainly my question. They have one of the best goalies in the state and some very talented defensemen from top to bottom. Seems odd is all.

Game against Mahtomedi, it was 4-3 Zephs going into the 3rd.

HShockeywatcher wrote:

GreekChurch wrote:

rainier wrote: Considering it was 8-2 going into the third, I imagine HM's 3rd and 4th lines saw A LOT of ice time. Any respectable coach lets off the gas a little when overwhelming an inferior opponent.

If you consider 20 shots in the 3rd letting off the gas a bit. The 4th line saw some action, but not a lot. The 8th goal was Becker from Lavalle, and French.

Letting off the gas and not playing defense are two very different things. Which is mainly my question. They have one of the best goalies in the state and some very talented defensemen from top to bottom. Seems odd is all.

Game against Mahtomedi, it was 4-3 Zephs going into the 3rd.

I have to agree, Dugas did not look sharp tonight - the 1st North Goal was shorthanded, and the 2nd was either shorthanded or right as the penalty ended. The third was a snipe, but I thought the 4th was soft. I think playing them twice a year has something to do with it, maybe being a little flat, especially after beating North 6 -0 in the first game.

HM is 17-2-1, considered one of the best teams in the state, have played a pretty decent schedule and done well, and people are talking about them giving up a few goals against "weaker" teams? Games that they won going away? Gee, can't imagine teenage kids not being at their peak performance every game. Maybe they will bring their "A" game against Richfield tomorrow and beat them by 2 touchdowns and the complaint will be, "Why didn't they just back off a little"?

I'm not saying HM pulled back the reigns against Mahtomedi or NSP, I'm just saying it is funny that people are commenting about a couple of games where they won by 4 goals.

HShockeywatcher wrote:

stpaul wrote:at Polar Arena in NSP
Hill-Murray 8, North St. Paul 4
shots 58-23

What is up with HM allowing numerous goals to lower CSC teams? They have allowed more goals to NSP and Mahtomedi than any other team in the state this year...

Does it really matter? If the game gets lopsided, the intensity drops, and its VERY easy and VERY common for kids to lose focus a bit. Besides, there is more to hockey than goals allowed... especially in a blowout game.

I can't help but notice your infatuation with this one aspect of the game after reading about how so many teams allowed too many goals week in and week out in your class A rankings. Its not the tell-all, end-all stat you think it is - in fact, a lot of the time (especially in this case), its pretty much irrelevant. Some teams try to win 6-2 or 7-3 instead of 2-1 or 1-0 and in doing so will sacrifice a little defense in return for more offense.

This post seems to just be a sorry (and unsuccessful) attempt to to take a shot at your alma mater's chief conference rival.

Last night was a typical Hill-Murray - North game. The 2 schools are only 2 miles apart. North thinks of it as a huge game. I doubt the HM kids give it much thought. Sadly North under Jerry Diebel do not play with much discipline. North got behind quickly 3-0 and the sticks and elbows come up. There were 10 penalties in the 2nd period while HM scored 5 times. A 3-2 lead turned into 8-2 pretty fast. Half of the 3rd period was running time. Still HM put 20 shots on goal. North did get 2 goals - one with only 15 seconds left to make the score look better. I wouldn't have any concern about Dugas or HM's defense. They just held STA to one goal and a much better Tartan offense to one goal in the last 2 games. North has some very good players - the Oliver twins, Meister and their goalies. Polar Arena still needs some heat. It's cold in there.

Pioneerprideguy wrote:HM is 17-2-1, considered one of the best teams in the state, have played a pretty decent schedule and done well, and people are talking about them giving up a few goals against "weaker" teams? Games that they won going away? Gee, can't imagine teenage kids not being at their peak performance every game. Maybe they will bring their "A" game against Richfield tomorrow and beat them by 2 touchdowns and the complaint will be, "Why didn't they just back off a little"?

I'm not saying HM pulled back the reigns against Mahtomedi or NSP, I'm just saying it is funny that people are commenting about a couple of games where they won by 4 goals.

Maybe if Hill and their fans didn’t put themselves on the highest pedestal possible the people wouldn’t get such joy watching them panic and coming up with excuses from they’re fans/parents. Yes kids have their ups and downs but with the talent they get in there, their downs shouldn’t be that noticeable.

[quote="Pioneerprideguy"]HM is 17-2-1, considered one of the best teams in the state, have played a pretty decent schedule and done well, and people are talking about them giving up a few goals against "weaker" teams? Games that they won going away? Gee, can't imagine teenage kids not being at their peak performance every game. Maybe they will bring their "A" game against Richfield tomorrow and beat them by 2 touchdowns and the complaint will be, "Why didn't they just back off a little"?

I'm not saying HM pulled back the reigns against Mahtomedi or NSP, I'm just saying it is funny that people are commenting about a couple of games where they won by 4 goals. [/quote]


I wouldn't worry about HM they have a very solid team all around. With no other real elite teams in 4AA this particular season, it is VERY unlikely they will not get to state and have as good a chance as anyone to play Saturday night.

PuckRanger wrote:

HShockeywatcher wrote:

stpaul wrote:at Polar Arena in NSP
Hill-Murray 8, North St. Paul 4
shots 58-23

What is up with HM allowing numerous goals to lower CSC teams? They have allowed more goals to NSP and Mahtomedi than any other team in the state this year...

Does it really matter? If the game gets lopsided, the intensity drops, and its VERY easy and VERY common for kids to lose focus a bit. Besides, there is more to hockey than goals allowed... especially in a blowout game.

I can't help but notice your infatuation with this one aspect of the game after reading about how so many teams allowed too many goals week in and week out in your class A rankings. Its not the tell-all, end-all stat you think it is - in fact, a lot of the time (especially in this case), its pretty much irrelevant. Some teams try to win 6-2 or 7-3 instead of 2-1 or 1-0 and in doing so will sacrifice a little defense in return for more offense.

This post seems to just be a sorry (and unsuccessful) attempt to to take a shot at your alma mater's chief conference rival.

Not taking a shot at anyone. Hill Murray is a very good team. I'm simply asking the question as I see the stats. stpaul gave a pretty good explanation of his analysis. rivalry games are pivotal and matter.

This doesn't explain the other 4 GA to Mahtomedi.
I don't really care, but none of the other "top" teams in A or AA have collapsed like this in the same way in more than one game.

I have no ill will against Hill in any way. Just making an observation. I make them regularly about teams based on what I see. My apologies.

PuckRanger wrote:

HShockeywatcher wrote:

stpaul wrote:at Polar Arena in NSP
Hill-Murray 8, North St. Paul 4
shots 58-23

What is up with HM allowing numerous goals to lower CSC teams? They have allowed more goals to NSP and Mahtomedi than any other team in the state this year...

Does it really matter? If the game gets lopsided, the intensity drops, and its VERY easy and VERY common for kids to lose focus a bit. Besides, there is more to hockey than goals allowed... especially in a blowout game.

I can't help but notice your infatuation with this one aspect of the game after reading about how so many teams allowed too many goals week in and week out in your class A rankings. Its not the tell-all, end-all stat you think it is - in fact, a lot of the time (especially in this case), its pretty much irrelevant. Some teams try to win 6-2 or 7-3 instead of 2-1 or 1-0 and in doing so will sacrifice a little defense in return for more offense.

This post seems to just be a sorry (and unsuccessful) attempt to to take a shot at your alma mater's chief conference rival.

HShockeywatcher wrote:

PuckRanger wrote:

HShockeywatcher wrote: What is up with HM allowing numerous goals to lower CSC teams? They have allowed more goals to NSP and Mahtomedi than any other team in the state this year...

Does it really matter? If the game gets lopsided, the intensity drops, and its VERY easy and VERY common for kids to lose focus a bit. Besides, there is more to hockey than goals allowed... especially in a blowout game.

I can't help but notice your infatuation with this one aspect of the game after reading about how so many teams allowed too many goals week in and week out in your class A rankings. Its not the tell-all, end-all stat you think it is - in fact, a lot of the time (especially in this case), its pretty much irrelevant. Some teams try to win 6-2 or 7-3 instead of 2-1 or 1-0 and in doing so will sacrifice a little defense in return for more offense.

This post seems to just be a sorry (and unsuccessful) attempt to to take a shot at your alma mater's chief conference rival.

Not taking a shot at anyone. Hill Murray is a very good team. I'm simply asking the question as I see the stats. stpaul gave a pretty good explanation of his analysis. rivalry games are pivotal and matter.

This doesn't explain the other 4 GA to Mahtomedi.
I don't really care, but none of the other "top" teams in A or AA have collapsed like this in the same way in more than one game.

I have no ill will against Hill in any way. Just making an observation. I make them regularly about teams based on what I see. My apologies.

There was no collapse, lol. And you are grossly mistaken that games like this don't happen to the other top teams:

Duluth East has lost to two different A teams this year, and beat Anoka (3-16-1) and Lakeville South (8-12-0) by 4-2 scores.

Benilde has clearly had their ups and downs this year, punctuated by a 7-1 blowout loss to Wayzata. I don't see any of those on HMs record.

Edina has also struggled at times this year. They've had a number of 1 goal wins against average and good, but certainly not great, teams. They gave up 6 goals to the same Holy Angels team that got beat 11-1 by BSM.

Minnetonka got blown out by BSM, tied an average Moorhead team, and lost to a below .500 Stillwater team.

Wayzata was shut out 3-0 against Edina, I don't see anything like that happening on HMs record. They nipped Rosemount (7-13-0) by a 3-2 score and only beat Osseo (3-14-2) by a goal.

Eagan technically tied single A team Hermantown, and if I recall were down something like 5-1 in that game. They have beaten the average Lakeville South and North teams by a goal each.

So you're incorrect; ALL the top teams have a game here and there that isn't indicative of their overall talent or what they are capable of. Different circumstances come in to play in games: illness, bus legs, a rivalry game, a hot goalie, etc...

The above teams are all very good and have a chance at winning the whole thing. The point is that in high school games, stuff happens.

BlueLineSpecial wrote:There was no collapse, lol. And you are grossly mistaken that games like this don't happen to the other top teams:

Duluth East has lost to two different A teams this year, and beat Anoka (3-16-1) and Lakeville South (8-12-0) by 4-2 scores.

Benilde has clearly had their ups and downs this year, punctuated by a 7-1 blowout loss to Wayzata. I don't see any of those on HMs record.

Edina has also struggled at times this year. They've had a number of 1 goal wins against average and good, but certainly not great, teams. They gave up 6 goals to the same Holy Angels team that got beat 11-1 by BSM.

Minnetonka got blown out by BSM, tied an average Moorhead team, and lost to a below .500 Stillwater team.

So you're incorrect; ALL the top teams have a game here and there that isn't indicative of their overall talent or what they are capable of. Different circumstances come in to play in games: illness, bus legs, a rivalry game, a hot goalie, etc...

The above teams are all very good and have a chance at winning the whole thing. The point is that in high school games, stuff happens.

When did I say "there was a collapse?" If I did, I was likely wrong. My comment wasn't about having games that were close on the scoreboard, it was about allowing many goals against a lower team. Which few top teams have done this year and few do regularly.

If you want to pretend that losing to a top AA team like Wayzata is at all the same discussion as allowing 4 goals to a team not in top third of teams in the state, go ahead, but that doesn't make it so.

The top 6 teams (generally accepted as the top tier ) have allowed more than 3 goals against to teams outside the top 10 in AA 4 times this year; East to Denfeld (5-4 loss), BSM to HF (7-5 win) and HM to NSP and Maht (both 8-4 wins).

My apologies for making an observation and asking a question. It will likely happen again though