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Deck Slide wrote:

BlueLineSpecial wrote:Who cares if he quits? The WAY he quit is the problem.

"Life is about facing adversity and finding a way through it" blah blah blah

Is life about any of that? Are there any consequences whatsoever these days? Take a look at the number of jobs the average person quits/leaves for greener pastures during their life. Take a look at the percentage of divorce rates (quitting marriage). People quit things all the time for any number of reasons. Do what makes you happy. If you are miserable playing hockey, by all frickin means, quit. You'll just be a drag on your team if your heart isn't in it anyway.

Again, the problem is not quitting. Its the way this kid did it, which was selfish, arrogant, detrimental to his team, disrepectful to his team, etc.

Apparently no one taught you the value of Loyality and being a team player! I am sorry but i raise my children much different than you and quitting is not option! I dont care how uncomfortable or how hard life gets from it. They made a committment to a TEAM at the begining of the year when they signed up and they knew the positives and negatives that will come along with it. They will see a way through it and become better people from it. And by the way No employeer likes a job hopper!!

Thanks Tony Robbins

bestpopcorn wrote:

Apparently no one taught you the value of Loyality and being a team player! I am sorry but i raise my children much different than you and quitting is not option! I dont care how uncomfortable or how hard life gets from it. They made a committment to a TEAM at the begining of the year when they signed up and they knew the positives and negatives that will come along with it. They will see a way through it and become better people from it. And by the way No employeer likes a job hopper!!

Does being forced to complete a 5 month task teach a child to not be a quitter? Is that really what he learns?

How are they being forced?? They signed up for it!!

Tony Robbins

Deck Slide wrote:

BlueLineSpecial wrote:Who cares if he quits? The WAY he quit is the problem.

"Life is about facing adversity and finding a way through it" blah blah blah

Is life about any of that? Are there any consequences whatsoever these days? Take a look at the number of jobs the average person quits/leaves for greener pastures during their life. Take a look at the percentage of divorce rates (quitting marriage). People quit things all the time for any number of reasons. Do what makes you happy. If you are miserable playing hockey, by all frickin means, quit. You'll just be a drag on your team if your heart isn't in it anyway.

Again, the problem is not quitting. Its the way this kid did it, which was selfish, arrogant, detrimental to his team, disrepectful to his team, etc.

Apparently no one taught you the value of Loyality and being a team player! I am sorry but i raise my children much different than you and quitting is not option! I dont care how uncomfortable or how hard life gets from it. They made a committment to a TEAM at the begining of the year when they signed up and they knew the positives and negatives that will come along with it. They will see a way through it and become better people from it. And by the way No employeer likes a job hopper!!

It is quotes like this that show the dysfunction of the "never quit for any reason" mentality. Career experts say to never stay in the same job for more than 7 years; you should always be looking to improve your situation, and this requires quitting every so often. If you hate your job, should you stay just so you won't be a "quitter"? Or should you look to increase your happiness by going for a better option?

I agree that adversity can build character, but not always; sometimes it is just a better idea to walk away, and to take away this option from your kids is a recipe for future dysfunction. Just because your grandfather thought this was the way to live doesn't mean you have to have the same philosophy. Adaptability and fluidity are facts of life, remaining static in a dynamic world might make for good sound bytes but it has limited application in reality.

Deck Slide wrote:

bestpopcorn wrote:

Apparently no one taught you the value of Loyality and being a team player! I am sorry but i raise my children much different than you and quitting is not option! I dont care how uncomfortable or how hard life gets from it. They made a committment to a TEAM at the begining of the year when they signed up and they knew the positives and negatives that will come along with it. They will see a way through it and become better people from it. And by the way No employeer likes a job hopper!!

Does being forced to complete a 5 month task teach a child to not be a quitter? Is that really what he learns?

How are they being forced?? They signed up for it!!

Tony Robbins

Nice . Listen, I get what you are trying to say but there are infinite good reasons to quit something. I quit my job 8 years ago to start my own business. That worked out pretty well. If I had loyalty to my employer I wouldn't be anywhere close to where I am now.

Staying on topic, I completely agree that how this kid went about quitting was not good. Wait til the season is over, quit in private, discuss your failings with your team. Of course there are better ways to do it. But at the end of the day if he is absolutely miserable and feels like he has no way out, then you gotta do what you gotta do. Life is too short to do something that you hate, regardless of circumstance.

Look, it's two different things to quit a job versus quitting on your sports team. While we could argue that in both cases you quitting a team, with a job it's commonly understood that you are an "at will" employee meaning you can be fired for cause or quit at your desire. As a member of a sports team, you are expected to support your team through the length of the season.
I'm not trying say that you should never quit your team because I can think of numerous examples of when that makes sense to me but the situation, in my mind, needs to be pretty dire to abandon you team.

Juggernaut wrote:Look, it's two different things to quit a job versus quitting on your sports team. While we could argue that in both cases you quitting a team, with a job it's commonly understood that you are an "at will" employee meaning you can be fired for cause or quit at your desire. As a member of a sports team, you are expected to support your team through the length of the season.
I'm not trying say that you should never quit your team because I can think of numerous examples of when that makes sense to me but the situation, in my mind, needs to be pretty dire to abandon you team.

Unless you go to Vancouver

Well that would be a valid reason

Juggernaut wrote:Well that would be a valid reason

Loyalty is a two-way street. Coaches/teams/players/parents want loyalty then start showing a little and perhaps things will change. Set the example for these KIDS.

How many posts have I read in the last year on this forum about seniors being cut in favor of younger players with arguably the same talent level?

Now you have a kid getting kicked off his team for visiting a junior team he may play for down the line?

Come on

I understand your point but every kid gets his shot at tryouts to prove he belongs. On the flip side, coaches should consider the loyalty that a senior player has shown to a team and carry additional players. In that case. The coach needs to make sure the senior player understands his role on the team. In my perfect world, noboDy gets cut but there is no guarantee of any ice time.

Juggernaut wrote:I understand your point but every kid gets his shot at tryouts to prove he belongs. On the flip side, coaches should consider the loyalty that a senior player has shown to a team and carry additional players. In that case. The coach needs to make sure the senior player understands his role on the team. In my perfect world, noboDy gets cut but there is no guarantee of any ice time.

Agree, and I've made it clear that what he did was wrong and I would be mortified if my kid did this. But again, unflinching loyalty to people who show little is not much better. This is pervasive is sports. How many college coaches swear up and up in interviews, to recruits, to their team, to the school AD, to anyone that will listen that they 'aren't going anywhere' right before they jump ship? Yet these kids have to show absolute blind loyalty to these people? What a joke.

The deeply held belief in loyalty to team that is so pervasive in sports is the reason for the MSHSL transfer rules.

bestpopcorn wrote:

Apparently no one taught you the value of Loyality and being a team player! I am sorry but i raise my children much different than you and quitting is not option! I dont care how uncomfortable or how hard life gets from it. They made a committment to a TEAM at the begining of the year when they signed up and they knew the positives and negatives that will come along with it. They will see a way through it and become better people from it. And by the way No employeer likes a job hopper!!

Does being forced to complete a 5 month task teach a child to not be a quitter? Is that really what he learns?

If it's a 5 month task I would say the kid is only going out to please his parents. Most problems occur from late to mid-Jan when coaches have evaluated their team and made decisions on lines, d pairs and goalie for the playoffs. Never said there aren't extreme cases, but my kids finished the season in any sport they went out for and then made a decsion if they wanted to continue or not.

bestpopcorn wrote:The deeply held belief in loyalty to team that is so pervasive in sports is the reason for the MSHSL transfer rules.

Teaching kids (they are not young adults unless 18 the rest are kids) to live up to their word and not giving up is a life lesson parents need to teach youth so they do not go around blaming others and have a victim mentality.

We all know when you quit once it gets easier and easier to be a quitter and yes that does carry over to many aspects of life.

With all of it said, I do not believe it is reasonable for a coach, program or community to expect anyone to be more loyal to them then they are to the players.

Irregardless when or if you leave you take the high road regardless of how others have acted. Otherwise you just brought yourself down to the very level you are complaining about.

bestpopcorn wrote:The deeply held belief in loyalty to team that is so pervasive in sports is the reason for the MSHSL transfer rules.

Speaking of MSHSL rules- the kids 10 days suspension from school but if a player violates chemical policy it is 2 weeks from the sport but still stays in school. This is more severe? Farmington based the suspension on their own- seems like they might be opening them self up here from the parents- even if they are challenging

This isn't about the goalie incident. That's been covered plenty.

What really comes out in this thread is how so many of you cannot see beyond hockey. It is obviously the highest priority for many of you. That holier than thou attitude of those who would "never allow" their kid to be a quitter is obscene.

It should never be that one should "never quit" or "not see a comittment through." It should be that you never begin something without the INTENTION to see it through. The fact is, stuff happens. Life can be unpredictable and complex. Conflicts occur. Everyone's priorities are different.

Absolutely, if you can finish? - finish. But if whatever else in your life (that you believe is more important) is suffering unacceptably, then quit, with regrets.

The time commitments for HS hockey can be extreme. You can argue that the "kid should know that" but it doesn't matter. HS is different. Coaches are different. Other activities have huge time comittments too - band, art, math league, NHS, a job, an ill family member, a second sport, school work in general.

People do what they have to do. Wish them luck and get on with your own life.

cooper26 wrote:This isn't about the goalie incident. That's been covered plenty.

What really comes out in this thread is how so many of you cannot see beyond hockey. It is obviously the highest priority for many of you. That holier than thou attitude of those who would "never allow" their kid to be a quitter is obscene.

It should never be that one should "never quit" or "not see a comittment through." It should be that you never begin something without the INTENTION to see it through. The fact is, stuff happens. Life can be unpredictable and complex. Conflicts occur. Everyone's priorities are different.

Absolutely, if you can finish? - finish. But if whatever else in your life (that you believe is more important) is suffering unacceptably, then quit, with regrets.

The time commitments for HS hockey can be extreme. You can argue that the "kid should know that" but it doesn't matter. HS is different. Coaches are different. Other activities have huge time comittments too - band, art, math league, NHS, a job, an ill family member, a second sport, school work in general.

People do what they have to do. Wish them luck and get on with your own life.

Ding Ding ... thank you.

I say use the same rule as you would when you parachute out of an airplane. Decide to quit before you jump!

cooper26 wrote:This isn't about the goalie incident. That's been covered plenty.

What really comes out in this thread is how so many of you cannot see beyond hockey. It is obviously the highest priority for many of you. That holier than thou attitude of those who would "never allow" their kid to be a quitter is obscene.

It should never be that one should "never quit" or "not see a comittment through." It should be that you never begin something without the INTENTION to see it through. The fact is, stuff happens. Life can be unpredictable and complex. Conflicts occur. Everyone's priorities are different.

Absolutely, if you can finish? - finish. But if whatever else in your life (that you believe is more important) is suffering unacceptably, then quit, with regrets.

The time commitments for HS hockey can be extreme. You can argue that the "kid should know that" but it doesn't matter. HS is different. Coaches are different. Other activities have huge time comittments too - band, art, math league, NHS, a job, an ill family member, a second sport, school work in general.

People do what they have to do. Wish them luck and get on with your own life.

Well said.
Some seem to have a hard time putting this into proper perspective. This incident did not cause more than negligible harm to anyone. Farmington is not having a stellar year. They are not going anywhere. Bring up a JV goalie and move forward. The coaches will retain their jobs. This student will go beyond high school and be unaffected. (Sorry, not buying the ridiculous assertations that future employers will find this clip and not hire him.) It was a hockey game, a regular season game. Farmington will move on to sectionals regardless of the loss, and they will have to beat some good teams to make a dent moving forward.
The sky is not falling. This story will be forgotten by the majority of us in no time. If anything comes from this, it is that perhaps the coaches will learn something about dealing with their players. Again, however, I would not expect anything earth-shattering.
10 years from now, this will be a great story at the Farmington high school reunion. That's about it. Settle down, everyone.

When it's no longer fun then it's time to quit.
I don't think it's any more complex than that.

These are kids who have often times been playing since they were 4 or 5, many of them probably just because they're parents have made them. Eventually they get to a point where other things are more important than hockey.

We try to pigeon hole kids into adult decisions and adult behaviors when they're not adults, some legally may qualify but they're not emotionally or mentally until they're in their early 20's.

Hoping it's ok to post this here - thought folks would be interested. Farmington goalie posted on twitter @ an hr ago he has an interview set up Fri, Feb 15:

"austin krause ‏@rider_600
Interview tomorrow with fox 9 news
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More'

Just what this plug wanted, more attention... what a joke

SEpuck wrote:Just what this plug wanted, more attention... what a joke

You don't have to watch it. And if you have a complaint, take it up with Ch. 9. What in the world would be wrong with giving this kid a forum other than Twitter? There could be much more here than meets your eye.

Fun thread.

I just got to thinking about the title of the thread, "when is it OK to quit?"

Isn't that a funny question to ask regarding a game?

I know I would HATE it if my kid quit. I am really going to miss it when it's over. Praying for hockey loving grand kids.

cooper26 wrote:This isn't about the goalie incident. That's been covered plenty.

What really comes out in this thread is how so many of you cannot see beyond hockey. It is obviously the highest priority for many of you. That holier than thou attitude of those who would "never allow" their kid to be a quitter is obscene.

It should never be that one should "never quit" or "not see a comittment through." It should be that you never begin something without the INTENTION to see it through. The fact is, stuff happens. Life can be unpredictable and complex. Conflicts occur. Everyone's priorities are different.

Absolutely, if you can finish? - finish. But if whatever else in your life (that you believe is more important) is suffering unacceptably, then quit, with regrets.

The time commitments for HS hockey can be extreme. You can argue that the "kid should know that" but it doesn't matter. HS is different. Coaches are different. Other activities have huge time comittments too - band, art, math league, NHS, a job, an ill family member, a second sport, school work in general.

People do what they have to do. Wish them luck and get on with your own life.

Great post..... Best one of the whole thread.

I don't think there are too many kids that have to go through the adversity that Jabby from BSM has gone through. And since I saw him out on Pokegama Lake in a howling blizzard supporting his team, I would say that it is almost never okay to quit.