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The Exiled One wrote:

O-townClown wrote:I haven't been reading close enough to scrutinize the math, but I think you are missing a ton of kids that are NCAA players.

The number isn't:

Commits as of now/Players rostered in a year

It is:

Commits today and also years forward/Players rostered in a year

It takes some time to determine what happens to that player pool of 700+ kids. You can't measure it accurately today.

I agree that there are kids currently without scholies that will eventually earn scholies omitted from that number, but the same holds true for the 138 USHL players without scholies. In other words, it doesn't work as a stand alone metric, but it still works as a comparative metric.

Just to be clear, I still think the NAHL is a fine league, and there is definitely some overlap with the USHL on an individual player basis, but the league on whole is clearly not on the same level. Good league though.

I think a good way to figure out NAHL vs USHL is going through each D1 rooster..I will do that in the next couple days and find out who's is from where and what league..Should give us a good starting point..It will be tedious, but I am down for it.

SuperStar wrote:I think a good way to figure out NAHL vs USHL is going through each D1 rooster..I will do that in the next couple days and find out who's is from where and what league..Should give us a good starting point..It will be tedious, but I am down for it.

I applaud the effort. Part of the trick will be accounting for migration from one league to the other. Many NAHL players commit THEN play in the USHL. A fewer number of USHL players commit THEN play in the NAHL.

If you really wanted to gain intelligence from the research, you'd create a graph comparing trend lines of the two leagues. Both have been sending increasing numbers of prospects to D1 at the expense of MNHSL, EJHL (now USPHL), and Ontario junior leagues.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

The Exiled One wrote:

SuperStar wrote:I think a good way to figure out NAHL vs USHL is going through each D1 rooster..I will do that in the next couple days and find out who's is from where and what league..Should give us a good starting point..It will be tedious, but I am down for it.

I applaud the effort. Part of the trick will be accounting for migration from one league to the other. Many NAHL players commit THEN play in the USHL. A fewer number of USHL players commit THEN play in the NAHL.

If you really wanted to gain intelligence from the research, you'd create a graph comparing trend lines of the two leagues. Both have been sending increasing numbers of prospects to D1 at the expense of MNHSL, EJHL (now USPHL), and Ontario junior leagues.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Exlied - Thanks - But graphing and charting are way over my head..! But I will see what I can do, even though it would be a snapshot of just last years roosters without knowing who transferred from where or what league, ect..If I came up with a basic stat - maybe others can tween it or clean it up more than I could...But I will see how this first list goes

Okay, after a couple days of trying to get info and count these guys one by one from the roosters, here is what I came up. I am sure I am off a few here and there, cause my eyes are playing tricks on me from looking at the laptop so long.

But anyways - This is the site I used to find each teams site:

http://www.americanhockeycenter.com/col ... -teams.htm

Junior Leagues that players last played on prior to going into D1 - info taken from this last year 13-14 roosters. Total of 1,263 listed.

USHL - 517
NAHL - 218
EJHL - Eastern Junior Hockey League - 132
BCHL -British Columbia Hockey League - 130
HS/Academies/Midgets - 106
OJHL - Ontario Junior Hockey League - 70
AJHL - Alberta Junior Hockey League- 65
CCHL - Central Canada Hockey League- 25
Leagues like the Manitoba Junior League, USPHL, SJHL, CJHL, Europe clubs, MNJHL, NEPSAC and others round out the remaining spots

The USHL still leads by a wide margin, but it is also so difficult to track how many guys played in the NAHL prior to going to the USHL, then on to college.

But the NAHL has and is making great leaps and bounds forward every year

HS/Academies category is players that list High School or Midgets or some kind of Academy. IVY league schools have a lot of guys from Academies like - Dexter, Deerfield, Avon, St. Sebastian's, Delbarton's, ect - I forget how these places are run - something with a extra year of High End Prep to get into Yale, Harvard, Brown and other IVY's...

SuperStar wrote:
HS/Academies category is players that list High School or Midgets or some kind of Academy. IVY league schools have a lot of guys from Academies like - Dexter, Deerfield, Avon, St. Sebastian's, Delbarton's, ect - I forget how these places are run - something with a extra year of High End Prep to get into Yale, Harvard, Brown and other IVY's...

While it's an option at some of them, I don't think the extra year option is very common. It's more of a safety net who kids who don't make it into elite universities the first time through the application process, and want another shot at it. Though I suppose not getting a D-I hockey offer might also qualify as a reason for doing it.

The best of them could compete with MN's best, though--there's some talent on these teams that can jump right into D-I hockey. Incidentally, I looked up Delbarton's schedule (I went to college with a lot of Delbarton kids, and some of them played hockey), and it has a trip to MN in mid-January; they got blasted by Shattuck but had one goal games with STA and Breck, a loss and a win. These games aren't on STA and Breck's actual schedules...were they scrimmages or something?

karl(east) wrote:

SuperStar wrote:
HS/Academies category is players that list High School or Midgets or some kind of Academy. IVY league schools have a lot of guys from Academies like - Dexter, Deerfield, Avon, St. Sebastian's, Delbarton's, ect - I forget how these places are run - something with a extra year of High End Prep to get into Yale, Harvard, Brown and other IVY's...

While it's an option at some of them, I don't think the extra year option is very common. It's more of a safety net who kids who don't make it into elite universities the first time through the application process, and want another shot at it. Though I suppose not getting a D-I hockey offer might also qualify as a reason for doing it.

The best of them could compete with MN's best, though--there's some talent on these teams that can jump right into D-I hockey. Incidentally, I looked up Delbarton's schedule (I went to college with a lot of Delbarton kids, and some of them played hockey), and it has a trip to MN in mid-January; they got blasted by Shattuck but had one goal games with STA and Breck, a loss and a win. These games aren't on STA and Breck's actual schedules...were they scrimmages or something?

I am really not sure what those games were about or if the counted in some way. I did find this thread from 2011 about this:

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... bf069a4e07

SuperStar wrote:Okay, after a couple days of trying to get info and count these guys one by one from the roosters, here is what I came up. I am sure I am off a few here and there, cause my eyes are playing tricks on me from looking at the laptop so long.

But anyways - This is the site I used to find each teams site:

http://www.americanhockeycenter.com/col ... -teams.htm

Junior Leagues that players last played on prior to going into D1 - info taken from this last year 13-14 roosters. Total of 1,263 listed.

USHL - 517
NAHL - 218
EJHL - Eastern Junior Hockey League - 132
BCHL -British Columbia Hockey League - 130
HS/Academies/Midgets - 106
OJHL - Ontario Junior Hockey League - 70
AJHL - Alberta Junior Hockey League- 65
CCHL - Central Canada Hockey League- 25
Leagues like the Manitoba Junior League, USPHL, SJHL, CJHL, Europe clubs, MNJHL, NEPSAC and others round out the remaining spots

The USHL still leads by a wide margin, but it is also so difficult to track how many guys played in the NAHL prior to going to the USHL, then on to college.

But the NAHL has and is making great leaps and bounds forward every year

HS/Academies category is players that list High School or Midgets or some kind of Academy. IVY league schools have a lot of guys from Academies like - Dexter, Deerfield, Avon, St. Sebastian's, Delbarton's, ect - I forget how these places are run - something with a extra year of High End Prep to get into Yale, Harvard, Brown and other IVY's...

Another component not taken into account is that many USHL players already have scholarships before they even play in the USHL. You look at the early rounds of the drafts and most of the kids are already committed to D1 programs. Rarely are NAHL players committed before playing in the NAHL.

Instead of looking at which is better, I look at it as a great time to be a young hockey player. Great options to play if your an early bloomer as well as a late bloomer, mix in Major Juniors for those who want.

It's a great day to be a youth hockey player, of course they will have to put the work in, but the days of needing to be an early maturing 17-19 yr old to be noticed have opened up to serving both the early/late bloomers in many different places/leagues