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minnscout wrote:There is no way the top Junior Gold A teams could beat many AA HS teams. Actually they would get crushed by the majority of the HS AA teams. JGA hockey is fun and it lets kids enjoy hockey at a competitive level and stay in the game.

Completely false. The top few junior gold A teams - usually Wayzata, Edina, Tonka etc., could compete with many AA high school teams. At the top schools, often very good players, usually seniors, are let go by the varsity program. The need to keep the families of the incoming underclassmen happy, outweighs the loyalty to experienced upperclassmen. The pressure on the coaches of the elite HS programs to keep kids from leaving causes them to take younger and younger players - even before they're ready. Over the last few years, Edina, for instance, has taken a number of younger kids who barely saw the ice at varsity. The depth of high level hockey players in these programs creates very strong Junior Gold A teams. Would they be top 10? No. But in many years they'd compare favorably with teams in the top 20 of AA.

Edina JGA had 2 seniors that played Varsity last year. The top 8-10 teams would compete at a middle AA Varsity level, easily. Edina has had numerous players move on to the NAHL from their JGA squad.

SouthernMinnFan wrote:

batman wrote:Bethel Park Pennsylvania 3 Wayzata Minnesota State Champs 2
USA Hockey High School Nationals

Bethel Park is the # 8 Seed in Class AAA in Western Pa and maybe some people from the State of Hockey will have a little more respect for our hockey players and schools here in Western Pennsylvania

Congrats to Bethel Park PA !

Just in case you or anyone else wasn't aware, the "High School" teams that are playing in nationals from Minnesota are Junior Gold teams. That means they are kids that were cut from the Varsity and Junior Varsity programs but are still playing. So congrats on beating the third team from one high school in Minnesota by 1.

LOVE IT

Bluewhitefan wrote:

minnscout wrote:There is no way the top Junior Gold A teams could beat many AA HS teams. Actually they would get crushed by the majority of the HS AA teams. JGA hockey is fun and it lets kids enjoy hockey at a competitive level and stay in the game.

Completely false. The top few junior gold A teams - usually Wayzata, Edina, Tonka etc., could compete with many AA high school teams. At the top schools, often very good players, usually seniors, are let go by the varsity program. The need to keep the families of the incoming underclassmen happy, outweighs the loyalty to experienced upperclassmen. The pressure on the coaches of the elite HS programs to keep kids from leaving causes them to take younger and younger players - even before they're ready. Over the last few years, Edina, for instance, has taken a number of younger kids who barely saw the ice at varsity. The depth of high level hockey players in these programs creates very strong Junior Gold A teams. Would they be top 10? No. But in many years they'd compare favorably with teams in the top 20 of AA.

These JR Gold statements are getting out of hand. No they could not compete with AA teams because even bad AA teams have one line that would dominate every player on the Junior gold team. This is more of a correct statement so I will seperate it for whoever wants to argue it.

The top few JR Gold teams first lines could play on most AA teams 3rd lines.

Yes there are former varsity players on JR gold, but 4th line kids that coaches didn't think would help them win a State tourney over young kids. Basically they weren't going to play for them anyways might as well take a younger player. Edina has some strong skaters, but the skill level is still behind those top lines on other teams. For instance, if you took Edina's JR Gold top line, and transplanted them to lets say Rochester JM who was a solid team in Southern Minnesota but no power house, they would be third line, maybe one of them would play on the second line. If you transplanted them onto Lakeville South, there is no way any of those kids plays above the third line, but all would make the team etc. They are not bad players, but stop saying statements like JR Gold teams could be a top 20 team. Prior Lake ended the season as number 20 this year for LPH. Anyone that has watched that team play, could you imagine what those top two lines would do to a JR Gold team.

I would bet the house. Wayzata's JR Gold A team would beat Hopkin's Varsity in a best 2 out of 3 series. All I will say. I don't throw around houses that easily! GB

GoldenBear wrote:I would bet the house. Wayzata's JR Gold A team would beat Hopkin's Varsity in a best 2 out of 3 series. All I will say. I don't throw around houses that easily! GB

Strange comment GB. Are you saying these two teams are so close that they would need a 3rd game to decide who is better? If so, I don't think I would be betting the house on it.

Not sure how much JGA has changed in the past 5 - 10 years, but where I came from, JGA was made up of Jr. and Sr. that would not have made the varsity team. They played JV as 10th graders and then didn't make the varsity as Juniors, or they saw the writing on the wall and didn't bother trying out. On occasion (more so in WBL), a varsity player would get suspended or kicked off the team and then go play JGA as their only option. If I recall correctly, WBL had a player play varsity this past year who was on the JGA the previous year. I heard he cleaned up his act in order to play varsity this year.

Not every kid with varsity or JV experience that ends up on JGA gets cut. Some kids don't like the time commitment or playing every other shift. Some kids decide to play JGA over varsity.
When I was on the team we had a guy who had the talent to be a 2nd line player for Edina's varsity. Everyone knew he was talented, the varsity coaches told him, but he was a bit lazy at times and not a great attitude some days. He didn't fit the mold for that Edina team in 2013 that was deep, hardworking and gritty. Perhaps if he came around this year during a year edina was a bit thin on offensive talent he would have made it, but there are other reasons to be cut than just based on talent.
My point is there are some talented players that play JGA, kids who aren't just 4th liners. I don't know if the top JGA teams could beat AA varsity teams, I honestly don't care, I just know they have players that woudnt be on whatever Rochester school's 3rd line.

Maybe the best example I can give is when a few edina kids left to go play for duluth Denfield in 2013 and 2014.
One played two years of JV and got cut, didn't want to play JGA and became a top 4 d. He didn't score much, but he played a shutdown role. from what I heard he had a nice season.
The better example would be a kid who played one year on junior Gold B, he then went to denfield for two years where he eventually became captain and leading scorer of the team. And he never even made JV or JGA.
Now denfield isn't AA, but I would say they are comparable to any Rochester school or a middling AA team like Hopkins

SouthernMinnFan wrote:These JR Gold statements are getting out of hand. No they could not compete with AA teams because even bad AA teams have one line that would dominate every player on the Junior gold team. This is more of a correct statement so I will seperate it for whoever wants to argue it.

Just because you argue it, doesn't make it so. I've seen plenty of AA varsity teams that didn't have anyone on them that would "dominate" the best JG players from Edina, Wayzata etc. The WBL player that was the very best JGA player last year, and one of their best varsity players this year, did not dominate in games vs. the best JGA teams last year. Your statement is an extreme generalization and is not based on any actual knowledge or observation of JG games.

Bluewhitefan wrote:

SouthernMinnFan wrote:These JR Gold statements are getting out of hand. No they could not compete with AA teams because even bad AA teams have one line that would dominate every player on the Junior gold team. This is more of a correct statement so I will seperate it for whoever wants to argue it.

Just because you argue it, doesn't make it so. I've seen plenty of AA varsity teams that didn't have anyone on them that would "dominate" the best JG players from Edina, Wayzata etc. The WBL player that was the very best JGA player last year, and one of their best varsity players this year, did not dominate in games vs. the best JGA teams last year. Your statement is an extreme generalization and is not based on any actual knowledge sor observation of JG games.

I can guarantee that no one here has seen more games of both flavors for the past 20 seasons. I can tell you that absolutely Edina and Wayzata's JGA teams would beat teams like Hopkins, Forest Lake, Eastview, East Ridge etc. but we'll never know because a Varsity coach would never player them.

Pioneers_18 wrote:Just because you argue it, doesn't make it so. I've seen plenty of AA varsity teams that didn't have anyone on them that would "dominate" the best JG players from Edina, Wayzata etc.

I have no idea whether or not the best JG teams like Edina and Wayzata would beat average AA teams. But I think it's safe to say that they would fare far better if those top programs didn't "lose" so many very good players to private schools. Competition for varsity spots would be even more intense than it is already, and both their JV and JG teams would be that much stronger. In that respect the very existence of the private schools and their membership in the MSHSL helps level the playing field between the haves and the have nots.

JGA beating a top 20 AA school no chance. The speed and depth of the AA team would be to much for a JGA team to handle. I have seen both Edina and Wayzata JGA teams play this season, no chance sorry. Running time by 2nd period.

I will take Batman over Superman! GB

minnscout wrote:JGA beating a top 20 AA school no chance. The speed and depth of the AA team would be to much for a JGA team to handle. I have seen both Edina and Wayzata JGA teams play this season, no chance sorry. Running time by 2nd period.

You sound like you have a pretty good grasp on it Minnscout. How about mid level or lower level AA or top 20 A teams?

GoldenBear wrote:I will take Batman over Superman! GB

NO CHANCE.

Come on Elliott. Batman has Cat Woman and superman has Lois Lane! GB

I wonder how many angles can dance on the head of a pin?

Guys, Maybe I can clarify the data in the graph a little bit. The data was from the 2014-2015 season (nation wide). I cut out all the non-Minnesota team in the list below, so that why you will see the ranking number jump as you go down the list. During that season, the Edina & Wayzata JGA teams were the best in their particular league, and ended up being ranked roughly at 1030th out of 5,000 HS age teams across North America. The MN HS curve in the graph contains both AA & A teams, as well as ND & SD teams were lumped into the MN teams. Here is the list:

lsqrank01 wrote:Guys, Maybe I can clarify the data in the graph a little bit. The data was from the 2014-2015 season (nation wide). I cut out all the non-Minnesota team in the list below, so that why you will see the ranking number jump as you go down the list. During that season, the Edina & Wayzata JGA teams were the best in their particular league, and ended up being ranked roughly at 1030th out of 5,000 HS age teams across North America. The MN HS curve in the graph contains both AA & A teams, as well as ND & SD teams were lumped into the MN teams. Here is the list:

Code: Select all

     1  MN     HS  1000.6730                                               Edina      MnHSHL   2         AA     30  (26- 2- 2) 0.900  
     2  MN     HS  1000.0000    (MnHSHL State Champ)                  LakevilleN      MnHSHL   1         AA     31  (31- 0- 0) 1.000  
     3  MN     PS   999.6416                                  ShattuckStMaryPrep     USAPREP   1        USA     57  (34-13-10) 0.684  
     5  MN     T1   999.1104                              TeamSE(UMHSEHL)18U_AAA    USA18U3A   3        AAA     25  (15- 2- 8) 0.760  
     6  MN     HS   999.0527                                         SaintThomas      MnHSHL   3         AA     31  (26- 5- 0) 0.839  
     7  MN     HS   998.7218                                          Hermantown      MnHSHL   7          A     31  (28- 3- 0) 0.903  
     8  MN     HS   998.6354                                            ElkRiver      MnHSHL   7         AA     28  (22- 5- 1) 0.804  
    12  MN     HS   998.3287                                         EdenPrairie      MnHSHL   6         AA     30  (19-11- 0) 0.633  
    15  MN     T1   998.2416                               ShattuckStMary16U_AAA    USA16U3A   3        AAA     58  (37-11-10) 0.724  
    16  MN     T1   998.1124                              TeamNE(UMHSEHL)18U_AAA    USA18U3A   3        AAA     27  (13- 8- 6) 0.593  
    21  MN     T1   997.9496                              TeamSW(UMHSEHL)18U_AAA    USA18U3A   3        AAA     24  (14- 8- 2) 0.625  
    22  MN     HS   997.9171                                             Wayzata      MnHSHL   6         AA     27  (12-12- 3) 0.500  
    23  MN     HS   997.8155                                          HillMurray      MnHSHL   4         AA     30  (21- 9- 0) 0.700  
    26  MN     HS   997.7755                                                 BSM      MnHSHL   6         AA     27  (15-10- 2) 0.593  
    28  MN     HS   997.7178                                           PriorLake      MnHSHL   2         AA     27  (17- 9- 1) 0.648  
    31  MN     T1   997.6589                              TeamNW(UMHSEHL)18U_AAA    USA18U3A   3        AAA     27  ( 9-10- 8) 0.481  
    32  MN     HS   997.6287                                          HolyFamily      MnHSHL   6         AA     26  (17- 7- 2) 0.692  
    35  MN     HS   997.4707                                              Blaine      MnHSHL   5         AA     31  (23- 7- 1) 0.758  
    37  MN     HS   997.4028                                          Minnetonka      MnHSHL   6         AA     28  (14-12- 2) 0.536  
    39  MN     HS   997.3827                                       WhiteBearLake      MnHSHL   4         AA     27  (21- 6- 0) 0.778  
    44  MN     HS   997.3199                                           Mahtomedi      MnHSHL   4          A     31  (26- 3- 2) 0.871  
    48  MN     HS   997.2247                                          Burnsville      MnHSHL   2         AA     28  (15-11- 2) 0.571  
    58  MN     HS   997.0184                                               Breck      MnHSHL   2          A     31  (22- 9- 0) 0.710  
    63  MN     T1   996.9860                              MinnesotaBlades18U_AAA    USA18U3A   3        AAA     29  (16- 7- 6) 0.655  
    65  MN     HS   996.9513                                      Farmington(MN)      MnHSHL   1         AA     28  (19- 8- 1) 0.696  
    67  MN     HS   996.9181                                      EastGrandForks      MnHSHL   8          A     30  (26- 4- 0) 0.867  
    70  MN     HS   996.8452                                             Bemidji      MnHSHL   8         AA     30  (23- 5- 2) 0.800  
    78  MN     HS   996.6829                                          LakevilleS      MnHSHL   1         AA     27  (14-11- 2) 0.556  
    85  MN     HS   996.5764                                                 CDH      MnHSHL   3         AA     27  (16- 7- 4) 0.667  
    88  MN     T1   996.5490                           TeamNorth(UMHSEHL)18U_AAA    USA18U3A   3        AAA     27  ( 3-14-10) 0.296  
    92  MN     T1   996.4584                              MinnesotaBlades16U_AAA    USA16U3A   3        AAA     29  (21- 7- 1) 0.741  
    97  MN     HS   996.3851                                          DuluthEast      MnHSHL   7         AA     31  (16-11- 4) 0.581  
   104  MN     HS   996.2767                                              Delano      MnHSHL   2          A     28  (23- 5- 0) 0.821  
   105  MN     HS   996.2311                                         GrandRapids      MnHSHL   7         AA     27  (14-11- 2) 0.556  
   108  MN     HS   996.1970                                            Moorhead      MnHSHL   8         AA     28  (17- 9- 2) 0.643  
   110  MN     HS   996.1870                                             Hopkins      MnHSHL   6         AA     26  (12-12- 2) 0.500  
   111  MN     HS   996.1849                                          MapleGrove      MnHSHL   5         AA     27  (13-14- 0) 0.481  
   126  MN     HS   995.9780                                BloomingtonJefferson      MnHSHL   2         AA     27  (14-11- 2) 0.556  
   130  MN     HS   995.9476                                      DuluthMarshall      MnHSHL   7          A     28  (19- 6- 3) 0.732  
   156  MN     HS   995.6848                                               Anoka      MnHSHL   5         AA     27  (17- 8- 2) 0.667  
   163  MN     HS   995.5967                                            Eastview      MnHSHL   3         AA     28  (14-13- 1) 0.518  
   173  MN     HS   995.5219                                          Stillwater      MnHSHL   4         AA     28  (19- 9- 0) 0.679  
   182  MN     HS   995.4503                                            Rosemont      MnHSHL   3         AA     27  (12-15- 0) 0.444  
   186  MN     HS   995.4293                                           StMichael      MnHSHL   7         AA     26  (21- 5- 0) 0.808  
   190  MN     HS   995.4092                                           Roseville      MnHSHL   4         AA     26  (15-11- 0) 0.577  
   193  MN     HS   995.3722                                      Centennial(MN)      MnHSHL   5         AA     28  (17-10- 1) 0.625  
   199  MN     HS   995.3265                                SaintPaulAcademy(MN)      MnHSHL   4          A     28  (23- 5- 0) 0.821  
   210  MN     HS   995.2043                                       DuluthDenfeld      MnHSHL   7          A     27  (19- 8- 0) 0.704  
   220  MN     T1   995.1071              MinnesotaEliteDevelopment(Gray)16U_AAA    USA16U3A   3        AAA      3  ( 3- 0- 0) 1.000  
   226  MN     T1   995.0672                           MinnesotaMagicians18U_AAA    USA18U3A   3        AAA     20  (11- 9- 0) 0.550  
   235  MN     T1   995.0085                           MinnesotaMagicians16U_AAA    USA16U3A   3        AAA     20  ( 9- 9- 2) 0.500  
   238  MN     HS   994.9993                                          HolyAngels      MnHSHL   2         AA     26  (15-11- 0) 0.577  
   240  MN     T1   994.9840                               ShattuckStMary18U_AAA    USA18U3A   3        AAA     48  (26-14- 8) 0.625  
   254  MN     HS   994.8218                                               Orono      MnHSHL   2          A     27  (16-10- 1) 0.611  
   255  MN     HS   994.8149                                           NewPrague      MnHSHL   1          A     31  (22- 9- 0) 0.710  
   257  MN     HS   994.7996                                       StCloudApollo      MnHSHL   6          A     31  (23- 6- 2) 0.774  
   258  MN     HS   994.7866                                             Cloquet      MnHSHL   7         AA     27  (12-13- 2) 0.481  
   276  MN     HS   994.6006                                          MoundsView      MnHSHL   4         AA     27  (13-11- 3) 0.537  
   280  MN     HS   994.5612                                         Andover(MN)      MnHSHL   7         AA     26  (10-13- 3) 0.442  
   284  MN     HS   994.5397                                          Alexandria      MnHSHL   6          A     27  (22- 4- 1) 0.833  
   309  MN     HS   994.3938                                     ThiefRiverFalls      MnHSHL   8          A     28  (14-14- 0) 0.500  
   326  MN     HS   994.1993                                             Sartell      MnHSHL   6          A     26  (17- 7- 2) 0.692  
   333  MN     HS   994.1198                                             Luverne      MnHSHL   3          A     28  (23- 5- 0) 0.821  
   342  MN     HS   994.0632                                              Tartan      MnHSHL   4         AA     26  (12-13- 1) 0.481  
   352  MN     HS   993.9957                                         StCloudCath      MnHSHL   6          A     28  (15-12- 1) 0.554  
   355  MN     HS   993.9681                                             Hibbing      MnHSHL   7          A     27  (15- 9- 3) 0.611  
   371  MN     HS   993.8285                                          ForestLake      MnHSHL   7         AA     26  ( 8-17- 1) 0.327  
   385  MN     HS   993.7205                                         FergusFalls      MnHSHL   6          A     27  (18- 6- 3) 0.722  
   386  MN     HS   993.7140                                      SpringLakePark      MnHSHL   5          A     30  (16-13- 1) 0.550  
   390  MN     HS   993.6755                                             Buffalo      MnHSHL   8         AA     26  (15-11- 0) 0.577  
   395  MN     HS   993.6266                                         AppleValley      MnHSHL   3         AA     27  ( 6-19- 2) 0.259  
   397  MN     HS   993.6254                                             Warroad      MnHSHL   8          A     28  (13-13- 2) 0.500  
   402  MN     HS   993.5917                                               Eagan      MnHSHL   3         AA     26  ( 7-18- 1) 0.288  
   406  MN     HS   993.5688                                              Roseau      MnHSHL   8         AA     27  (13-13- 1) 0.500  
   414  MN     HS   993.5065                                        DetroitLakes      MnHSHL   8          A     27  (19- 6- 2) 0.741  
   415  MN     HS   993.5049                                            Woodbury      MnHSHL   3         AA     27  (10-14- 3) 0.426  
   417  MN     HS   993.4728                                           EastRidge      MnHSHL   3         AA     26  ( 8-15- 3) 0.365  
   432  MN     HS   993.2766                                         SouthStPaul      MnHSHL   4          A     27  (15-12- 0) 0.556  
   436  MN     HS   993.2583                                               Osseo      MnHSHL   5         AA     26  (13-12- 1) 0.519  
   452  MN     HS   993.1887                                           Blake(MN)      MnHSHL   2          A     27  ( 9-17- 1) 0.352  
   461  MN     HS   993.1309                                            Hastings      MnHSHL   3         AA     26  ( 8-16- 2) 0.346  
   479  MN     HS   992.9908                                       RochesterLord      MnHSHL   1          A     27  ( 6-19- 2) 0.259  
   489  MN     HS   992.9142                                          Chanhassan      MnHSHL   2         AA     26  ( 7-14- 5) 0.365  
   503  MN     HS   992.8624                                           Crookston      MnHSHL   8          A     27  (13-13- 1) 0.500  
   510  MN     T1   992.8257                       MinnesotaNorthernWings18U_AAA    USA18U3A   3        AAA     15  ( 4-11- 0) 0.267  
   520  MN     HS   992.7571                                       RochesterMayo      MnHSHL   1         AA     26  (16- 9- 1) 0.635  
   522  MN     HS   992.7467                                  BloomingtonKennedy      MnHSHL   2          A     26  (17- 9- 0) 0.654  
   525  MN     HS   992.7092                                              Rogers      MnHSHL   5         AA     26  (10-15- 1) 0.404  
   543  MN     HS   992.5905                                        ChamplinPark      MnHSHL   5         AA     26  ( 7-18- 1) 0.288  
   551  MN     HS   992.5305                                         MankatoWest      MnHSHL   1          A     27  (18- 7- 2) 0.704  
   569  MN     T1   992.4616                        MetroSoutheast(MEDPL)16U_AAA    USA16U3A   3        AAA     21  (14- 7- 0) 0.667  
   575  MN     HS   992.4417                                       RochesterCENT      MnHSHL   1         AA     27  (15- 8- 4) 0.630  
   598  MN     HS   992.3517                                         TotinoGrace      MnHSHL   4          A     26  ( 8-17- 1) 0.327  
   609  MN     HS   992.2917                                       StPaulJohnson      MnHSHL   4          A     27  (16- 9- 2) 0.630  
   618  MN     HS   992.2415                                     ArmstrongCooper      MnHSHL   6         AA     26  ( 9-16- 1) 0.365  
   631  MN     HS   992.1889                                              NewUlm      MnHSHL   3          A     30  (18-10- 2) 0.633  
   633  MN     HS   992.1783                                            Brainard      MnHSHL   8         AA     27  ( 9-17- 1) 0.352  
   637  MN     HS   992.1714                                           AlbertLea      MnHSHL   1          A     27  (12-15- 0) 0.444  
   644  MN     HS   992.1315                                          MHHAunited      MnHSHL   4          A     26  (16- 9- 1) 0.635  
   668  MN     HS   992.0530                                      Northfield(MN)      MnHSHL   1          A     28  (16-10- 2) 0.607  
   675  MN     HS   992.0255                                          Hutchinson      MnHSHL   3          A     26  (15-10- 1) 0.596  
   679  MN     HS   992.0159                                             Kittson      MnHSHL   8          A     26  (17- 9- 0) 0.654  
   713  MN     T1   991.8954                    MinnesotaEliteDevelopment16U_AAA    USA16U3A   3        AAA      5  ( 1- 4- 0) 0.200  
   730  MN     HS   991.7929                                           MplsNovas      MnHSHL   2          A     27  (14-12- 1) 0.537  
   755  MN     HS   991.6660                                         StLouisPark      MnHSHL   2          A     27  ( 9-15- 3) 0.389  
   771  MN     HS   991.5786                                         RochesterJM      MnHSHL   1         AA     26  (13-13- 0) 0.500  
   778  MN     HS   991.5415                                           Faribault      MnHSHL   1          A     28  (19- 8- 1) 0.696  
   788  MN     HS   991.5142                                            Virginia      MnHSHL   7          A     27  ( 9-18- 0) 0.333  
   791  MN     T1   991.4972                       MinnesotaNorthernWings16U_AAA    USA16U3A   3        AAA     19  ( 3-16- 0) 0.158  
   797  MN     HS   991.4784                                          RiverLakes      MnHSHL   8         AA     26  (12-12- 2) 0.500  
   804  MN     T1   991.4443                         GreaterMnWest(MEDPL)16U_AAA    USA16U3A   3        AAA     24  (10- 8- 6) 0.542  
   813  MN     T1   991.4199                        MetroNortheast(MEDPL)16U_AAA    USA16U3A   3        AAA     26  (12- 6- 8) 0.615  
   820  MN     HS   991.4020                                            Irondale      MnHSHL   4         AA     26  ( 4-20- 2) 0.192  
   849  MN     T1   991.2706                          MinnesotaRevolution18U_AAA    USA18U3A   3        AAA     50  ( 6-44- 0) 0.120  
   852  MN     HS   991.2675                                            Owatonna      MnHSHL   1         AA     26  (11-13- 2) 0.462  
   853  MN     HS   991.2607                                              Simley      MnHSHL   4          A     27  (11-13- 3) 0.463  
   868  MN     T1   991.2056                    GreaterMnNortheast(MEDPL)16U_AAA    USA16U3A   3        AAA     22  ( 9- 9- 4) 0.500  
   874  MN     HS   991.1854                                         StCloudTech      MnHSHL   8         AA     26  ( 6-18- 2) 0.269  
   902  MN     HS   991.0770                                             StPeter      MnHSHL   1          A     27  (19- 8- 0) 0.704  
   917  MN     HS   991.0178                                             Eveleth      MnHSHL   7          A     26  (11-13- 2) 0.462  
   920  MN     HS   990.9857                                            Greenway      MnHSHL   7          A     26  (11-15- 0) 0.423  
   925  MN     T2   990.9658                                ShattuckStMary18U_AA    USA18U2A   2         AA     63  (31-24- 8) 0.556  
   940  MN     HS   990.8939                                            Shakopee      MnHSHL   2         AA     26  ( 2-22- 2) 0.115  
   950  MN     T1   990.8617                        MetroSouthwest(MEDPL)16U_AAA    USA16U3A   3        AAA     24  (11-11- 2) 0.500  
   970  MN     T1   990.7874                        MetroNorthwest(MEDPL)16U_AAA    USA16U3A   3        AAA     23  ( 7- 9- 7) 0.457  
   979  MN     HS   990.7585                                         MankatoEast      MnHSHL   1          A     26  (12-14- 0) 0.462  
   994  MN     HS   990.7159                                              ParkCG      MnHSHL   3         AA     26  ( 2-23- 1) 0.096  
   997  MN     HS   990.7019                                          SaukRapids      MnHSHL   6          A     27  (10-15- 2) 0.407  
  1019  MN     HS   990.6226                                       MoundWestonka      MnHSHL   2          A     26  ( 8-17- 1) 0.327  
  1031  MN     T2   990.5929                                         Wayzata_JGA   MnJrGoldA   1          A     33  (27- 3- 3) 0.864  
  1032  MN     HS   990.5916                                                 LDC      MnHSHL   3          A     26  ( 9-15- 2) 0.385  
  1034  MN     T2   990.5878                                           Edina_JGA   MnJrGoldA   1          A     44  (35- 8- 1) 0.807  
  1039  MN     HS   990.5742                                             RedWing      MnHSHL   1          A     27  ( 8-18- 1) 0.315  
  1080  MN     T2   990.4183                                    Edina(White)_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     27  (27- 0- 0) 1.000  
  1083  MN     HS   990.4139                                             Waconia      MnHSHL   2          A     27  ( 7-17- 3) 0.315  
  1084  MN     HS   990.4119                                          CoonRapids      MnHSHL   5         AA     26  ( 4-21- 1) 0.173  
  1089  MN     HS   990.3961                                        ChisagoLakes      MnHSHL   5          A     28  (10-16- 2) 0.393  
  1098  MN     T1   990.3772                        GreaterMnSouth(MEDPL)16U_AAA    USA16U3A   3        AAA     21  ( 9-11- 1) 0.452  
  1101  MN     HS   990.3719                                           StFrancis      MnHSHL   7         AA     27  ( 5-21- 1) 0.204  
  1108  MN     HS   990.3364                                         LittleFalls      MnHSHL   6          A     27  (13-13- 1) 0.500  
  1114  MN     HS   990.3179                                                MAML      MnHSHL   8         AA     27  (10-17- 0) 0.370  
  1120  MN     HS   990.2971                                          ParkRapids      MnHSHL   8          A     27  (12-14- 1) 0.463  
  1186  MN     HS   989.9982                                             Proctor      MnHSHL   5          A     27  (10-17- 0) 0.370  
  1228  MN     HS   989.7993                                       Princeton(MN)      MnHSHL   5          A     27  (12-13- 2) 0.481  
  1240  MN     HS   989.7776                                              Chaska      MnHSHL   2          A     26  (12-14- 0) 0.462  
  1245  MN     HS   989.7593                                            Marshall      MnHSHL   3          A     27  (16-10- 1) 0.611  
  1273  MN     HS   989.6547                                         NorthStPaul      MnHSHL   4         AA     26  ( 4-22- 0) 0.154  
  1275  MN     HS   989.6427                                           LaCresant      MnHSHL   1          A     26  (19- 7- 0) 0.731  
  1289  MN     T1   989.5826                        GreaterMnNorth(MEDPL)16U_AAA    USA16U3A   3        AAA     22  ( 5-13- 4) 0.318  
  1315  MN     T2   989.5006                                   WhiteBearLake_JGA   MnJrGoldA   1          A     41  (21-14- 6) 0.585  
  1316  MN     HS   989.4989                                              Sibley      MnHSHL   4          A     27  ( 9-18- 0) 0.333  
  1395  MN     HS   989.1688                                           LakeWoods      MnHSHL   8          A     26  (10-16- 0) 0.385  
  1399  MN     T2   989.1558                                      Minnetonka_JGA   MnJrGoldA   1          A     37  (22-10- 5) 0.662  
  1415  MN     T2   989.0954                                     StLouisPark_JGA   MnJrGoldA   1          A     30  (20- 7- 3) 0.717  
  1418  MN     HS   989.0907                                              IFALLS      MnHSHL   7          A     26  ( 4-22- 0) 0.154  
  1438  MN     HS   988.9760                                        RedLakeFalls      MnHSHL   8          A     26  (13-12- 1) 0.519  
  1448  MN     T2   988.9050                                       Lakeville_JGA   MnJrGoldA   1          A     33  (19-10- 4) 0.636  
  1460  MN     HS   988.8852                                       Cambridge(MN)      MnHSHL   7         AA     25  (10-15- 0) 0.400  
  1501  MN     HS   988.7109                                          Providence      MnHSHL   5          A     27  ( 7-19- 1) 0.278  
  1508  MN     HS   988.6486                                          NorthShore      MnHSHL   7          A     26  (14-12- 0) 0.538  
  1532  MN     T2   988.5640                                   Wayzata(Blue)_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     28  (25- 2- 1) 0.911  
  1545  MN     HS   988.5013                                              Austin      MnHSHL   1          A     26  ( 3-21- 2) 0.154  
  1559  MN     T1   988.4601                             MnMetroSr(MEDPL)16U_AAA    USA16U3A   3        AAA      9  ( 1- 4- 4) 0.333  
  1562  MN     T2   988.4513                                      Stillwater_JGA   MnJrGoldA   1          A     32  (15-13- 4) 0.531  
  1564  MN     T2   988.4363                                     EdenPrairie_JGA   MnJrGoldA   1          A     27  (11-13- 3) 0.463  
  1592  MN     HS   988.3170                                             Willmar      MnHSHL   3          A     27  ( 6-21- 0) 0.222  
  1653  MN     HS   988.0638                                        StPaulComoPk      MnHSHL   4          A     26  (16-10- 0) 0.615  
  1701  MN     HS   987.9179                                              Winona      MnHSHL   1          A     26  ( 4-22- 0) 0.154  
  1716  MN     HS   987.8837                                                Mora      MnHSHL   5          A     26  (13-12- 1) 0.519  
  1783  MN     T2   987.6658                                   Wayzata(Gold)_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     30  (21- 8- 1) 0.717  
  1802  MN     HS   987.5740                                              Waseca      MnHSHL   1          A     26  (13-12- 1) 0.519  
  1805  MN     T2   987.5612                                       Rosemount_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     31  (25- 5- 1) 0.823  
  1837  MN     T2   987.4717                                      Stillwater_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     28  (20- 6- 2) 0.750  
  1840  MN     T2   987.4647                                    Edina(Green)_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     30  (21- 9- 0) 0.700  
  1842  MN     T2   987.4609                                St.ThomasAcademy_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     28  (20- 6- 2) 0.750  
  1844  MN     T2   987.4558                                          Blaine_JGA   MnJrGoldA   1          A     33  (13-17- 3) 0.439  
  1848  MN     HS   987.4393                                       NorthernLakes      MnHSHL   6          A     27  (10-16- 1) 0.389  
  1849  MN     T2   987.4391                              Chaska/Chan(Black)_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     29  (21- 4- 4) 0.793  
  1866  MN     T2   987.3875                                        Moorhead_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          A     11  ( 9- 2- 0) 0.818  
  1867  MN     T2   987.3809                           Bloomington/Jefferson_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     26  (17- 6- 3) 0.712  
  1928  MN     T2   987.1239                                        Woodbury_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     28  (19- 5- 4) 0.750  
  1933  MN     T2   987.1158                                          Tartan_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     24  (16- 5- 3) 0.729  
  1946  MN     T2   987.0732                                      Centennial_JGA   MnJrGoldA   1          A     40  (10-28- 2) 0.275  
  2022  MN     T2   986.8157                                 Edgcumbe(Green)_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     27  (17- 9- 1) 0.648  
  2040  MN     T2   986.7697                                      Minnetonka_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     28  (18- 8- 2) 0.679  
  2079  MN     T1   986.6129                          MinnesotaRevolution16U_AAA    USA16U3A   3        AAA     27  ( 8-19- 0) 0.296  
  2080  MN     HS   986.6116                                         DodgeCounty      MnHSHL   1         AA     28  ( 7-21- 0) 0.250  
  2087  MN     T2   986.5873                                 OsseoMapleGrove_JGA   MnJrGoldA   1          A     28  ( 7-19- 2) 0.286  
  2096  MN     T2   986.5502                                       Roseville_JGA   MnJrGoldA   1          A     27  ( 6-18- 3) 0.278  
  2113  MN     HS   986.4668                                          RedwoodVal      MnHSHL   3          A     25  (10-15- 0) 0.400  
  2173  MN     T2   986.2974                          St.Michael/Albertville_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     28  (13-10- 5) 0.554  
  2255  MN     HS   985.9897                                              Morris      MnHSHL   3          A     27  (10-17- 0) 0.370  
  2287  MN     T2   985.8851                                         EP(Red)_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     25  (12-10- 3) 0.540  
  2297  MN     T2   985.8317                                PriorLake/Savage_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     25  (12-10- 3) 0.540  
  2312  MN     HS   985.7952                                        LegacyChrist      MnHSHL   5          A     26  (12-14- 0) 0.462  
  2330  MN     HS   985.6986                                          PrairieCtr      MnHSHL   6          A     26  ( 5-20- 1) 0.212  
  2336  MN     T2   985.6883                            WhiteBearLake(White)_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     27  (13-11- 3) 0.537  
  2359  MN     T2   985.5683                                          Blaine_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     27  (13-14- 0) 0.481  
  2376  MN     HS   985.5039                                              Wadena      MnHSHL   6          A     26  ( 7-19- 0) 0.269  
  2431  MN     T2   985.2736                                           Eagan_JGA   MnJrGoldA   1          A     30  ( 6-23- 1) 0.217  
  2448  MN     T2   985.1948                                      ForestLake_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     25  (13-10- 2) 0.560  
  2461  MN     HS   985.1623                                            PineCity      MnHSHL   5          A     27  (11-16- 0) 0.407  
  2469  MN     T2   985.1255                               Burnsville(Black)_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     27  (13-12- 2) 0.519  
  2489  MN     T2   985.0306                                        ElkRiver_JGA   MnJrGoldA   1          A     31  ( 7-24- 0) 0.226  
  2599  MN     T2   984.5756                            WhiteBearLake(Black)_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     24  (12-12- 0) 0.500  
  2657  MN     T2   984.3163                                Burnsville(Gold)_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     24  ( 9-11- 4) 0.458  
  2658  MN     HS   984.3144                                             BigLake      MnHSHL   8         AA     26  ( 5-21- 0) 0.192  
  2722  MN     T2   984.1094                               Chaska/Chan(Gold)_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     24  ( 6-13- 5) 0.354  
  2723  MN     HS   984.0928                                              Windom      MnHSHL   3          A     26  ( 7-19- 0) 0.269  
  2742  MN     T2   983.9843                                       EP(Black)_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     23  (10-10- 3) 0.500  
  2752  MN     T2   983.9240                                      WessysBoys_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     39  ( 9-17-13) 0.397  
  2816  MN     T2   983.6902                                         Sartell_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     24  ( 6-17- 1) 0.271  
  2841  MN     HS   983.5433                                           MooseLake      MnHSHL   5          A     26  ( 8-18- 0) 0.308  
  2880  MN     HS   983.3239                                      StPaulHiLandPk      MnHSHL   4          A     25  ( 5-20- 0) 0.200  
  2883  MN     HS   983.3056                                        Breckenridge      MnHSHL   6          A     21  ( 3-18- 0) 0.143  
  2888  MN     T2   983.2538                                          Duluth_JGA   MnJrGoldA   1          A     10  ( 1- 9- 0) 0.100  
  2889  MN     T2   983.2491                                          Delano_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     24  ( 6-14- 4) 0.333  
  2893  MN     HS   983.2357                                            Fairmont      MnHSHL   3          A     24  ( 5-17- 2) 0.250  
  2918  MN     T2   983.1197                                       Armstrong_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     24  ( 8-14- 2) 0.375  
  2921  MN     T2   983.0835                                Roseville(Black)_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     24  ( 7-13- 4) 0.375  
  2998  MN     T2   982.6722                                           Eagan_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     24  ( 7-16- 1) 0.313  
  3013  MN     T2   982.6094                                       Mahtomedi_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     24  ( 6-14- 4) 0.333  
  3016  MN     HS   982.5913                                                 Ely      MnHSHL   7          A     21  ( 4-17- 0) 0.190  
  3020  MN     T2   982.5546                                 Lakeville(Gold)_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     24  ( 4-19- 1) 0.188  
  3046  MN     HS   982.4163                                           Richfield      MnHSHL   2          A     25  ( 2-23- 0) 0.080  
  3048  MN     T2   982.3912                                             OMG_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     24  ( 6-15- 3) 0.313  
  3052  MN     T2   982.3776                                    ChisagoLakes_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     23  ( 6-16- 1) 0.283  
  3087  MN     T2   982.1158                                          Rogers_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     24  ( 2-21- 1) 0.104  
  3105  MN     T2   981.9867                                        Hastings_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     24  ( 4-19- 1) 0.188  
  3110  MN     HS   981.9526                                         NorthBranch      MnHSHL   5          A     26  ( 5-21- 0) 0.192  
  3145  MN     HS   981.6848                                              Bagley      MnHSHL   8          A     20  ( 2-18- 0) 0.100  
  3207  MN     T2   981.1727                                Lakeville(Black)_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     23  ( 2-20- 1) 0.109  
  3214  MN     T2   981.1125                                  Edgcumbe(Gold)_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     24  ( 5-18- 1) 0.229  
  3245  MN     T2   980.8564                                     GrandRapids_JGA   MnJrGoldA   1          A      5  ( 0- 5- 0) 0.000  
  3343  MN     HS   979.8917                                         Worthington      MnHSHL   3          A     23  ( 2-20- 1) 0.109  
  3360  MN     T2   979.7213                               Roseville(Silver)_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     24  ( 2-22- 0) 0.083  
  3414  MN     T2   979.0521                                         Buffalo_JGB   MnJrGoldB   1          B     24  ( 2-21- 1) 0.104  

So... they fell JUST below powerhouses like Park (CG), and Shakopee - who each put up 2 varsity wins...

Would anyone seriously believe that the Shattuck 16U squad was the 15th best team in the country, but the 18U program was only at a 240 ranking. Statistical analysis only carries any weight when you are comparing apples to apples. Comparing JRGA to AAA, to MSHSL, to JGB, etc. across the board is just goofy. Very few teams from any league/level play significant games against teams from "other" such leagues.

Statistical analysis like this is completely meaningless. It is only valid if the teams actually play against each other. Statisticians will put in factors when there is no cross play and is completely arbitrary. It is a waste of space.

Some of these Jr. Gold posts are ridiculous. There is absolutely zero chance a Jr. Gold "A" team would come close to beating a Top 50 AA team. Zero. None. Sure - the first line of a Jr. Gold "A" team could skate with the second and third lines, but beyond that it wouldn't even be close.

OK, I know we will NEVER be able to answer this debate in final fashion since teams from these two categories will never play each other. And that's why I compared it to arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, a theological debate from long ago that can never be settled.

However, we can avoid being ridiculous in our positions on the topic.

HSHockeyFan08 wrote:Some of these Jr. Gold posts are ridiculous. There is absolutely zero chance a Jr. Gold "A" team would come close to beating a Top 50 AA team. Zero. None. Sure - the first line of a Jr. Gold "A" team could skate with the second and third lines, but beyond that it wouldn't even be close.

Like this. Zero chance that the #30-45 skaters from Edina or Wayzata could ever come close to beating the 40th AA team in the State????? These kids were not that far off of the varisty ranks. They have skated with the varsity kids for years in youth hockey, summer hockey, camps, etc. Some of them playing JGA would have made varsity but for a young hot-shot 9th grader or two. It varies year to year but some seasons the difference between the kids who made varsity and the kids who were last cut is razor thin at tryouts.

I can guarantee you that the top lines of Edina and Wayzata JGA would be playing top line minutes at half the AA varsity teams in the state. Same with top d-pairs and goalies. The top players on the Edina JGA have all won state titles at PW and Bantam, while beating the guys who are now on those other varsity teams. I know I watched an Edina JGA goalie win a Bantam AA title over DE a few years back. And 3 others from that Edina bantam team are now playing USHL and NTDP, while some are on JGA.

HSHockeyFan08 wrote:Some of these Jr. Gold posts are ridiculous. There is absolutely zero chance a Jr. Gold "A" team would come close to beating a Top 50 AA team. Zero. None. Sure - the first line of a Jr. Gold "A" team could skate with the second and third lines, but beyond that it wouldn't even be close.

You are an idiot. Top 50? There are years they'd beat the top 25. Sorry, but you absolutely do not know what you're talking about.

Bigcat99 wrote:

lsqrank01 wrote: [/code]

So... they fell JUST below powerhouses like Park (CG), and Shakopee - who each put up 2 varsity wins...

Would anyone seriously believe that the Shattuck 16U squad was the 15th best team in the country, but the 18U program was only at a 240 ranking. Statistical analysis only carries any weight when you are comparing apples to apples. Comparing JRGA to AAA, to MSHSL, to JGB, etc. across the board is just goofy. Very few teams from any league/level play significant games against teams from "other" such leagues.

I think you are misreading or misunderstanding that the Schattuck 18U team that is ranked #240 is their second team. Schattuck's Prep team that is ranked third in the poll is their top 18U team... so yea having knowledge of all of Schattuck's teams their 16U team is easily significantly better than their second 18U team FWIW... I do agree with the sentiment that it's hard to rank these teams against eachother when there is virtually no crossover play.

[quote="Bluewhitefan"][quote="HSHockeyFan08"]Some of these Jr. Gold posts are ridiculous. There is absolutely zero chance a Jr. Gold "A" team would come close to beating a Top 50 AA team. Zero. None. Sure - the first line of a Jr. Gold "A" team could skate with the second and third lines, but beyond that it wouldn't even be close.[/quote]

You are an idiot. Top 50? There are years they'd beat the top 25. Sorry, but you absolutely do not know what you're talking about.[/quote]

Not a chance. Like I said - due to the lack of depth on a Jr. Gold "A" roster they would not beat a Top 50 team. The first line would be able to compete against the AA teams second and third lines, but beyond that it wouldn't be close.