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Brodziak Fan Club wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:22 pm

Green and White Fan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:00 pm I put together a rating system that strictly ranks you with how you do within your section. Your other body of work factors in, in no way. 2 points for every section win. Minus 2 points for every section loss. If you only play a team once, you get 3 points for a win. If you don't play a team in your section at least once, you get a minus 3 for each team not played. Applying that to 8AA, Elk River would have been the 1 seed, with one more point than Roseau. Moorhead would have been a 3 seed, losing to Roseau by one point because of the extra section loss to Buffalo. The rest of the teams would have fell exactly where they fell according to this mornings coaches seedings. Elk would have gotten the 1 seed by not playing 2 of the top teams in the section. Right or wrong it takes it out of the coaches hands. I would be curious to see how this would result in other sections compared to how they will be seeded. QRF is a joke as Grand Rapids, gets dinged for losing to one of the best teams in the state in Hermantown and likewise, Roseau would have gotten a big ding for losing to a top team in Warroad.

Delayedoffsides wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:06 pm

Green and White Fan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:00 pm I put together a rating system that strictly ranks you with how you do within your section. Your other body of work factors in, in no way. 2 points for every section win. Minus 2 points for every section loss. If you only play a team once, you get 3 points for a win. If you don't play a team in your section at least once, you get a minus 3 for each team not played. Applying that to 8AA, Elk River would have been the 1 seed, with one more point than Roseau. Moorhead would have been a 3 seed, losing to Roseau by one point because of the extra section loss to Buffalo. The rest of the teams would have fell exactly where they fell according to this mornings coaches seedings. Elk would have gotten the 1 seed by not playing 2 of the top teams in the section. Right or wrong it takes it out of the coaches hands. I would be curious to see how this would result in other sections compared to how they will be seeded. QRF is a joke as Grand Rapids, gets dinged for losing to one of the best teams in the state in Hermantown and likewise, Roseau would have gotten a big ding for losing to a top team in Warroad.

How did GR get dinged for losing to HT? According to most even if they won that game they weren’t going to catch Andover for the #1 seed anyway.

Green and White Fan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:00 pm I put together a rating system that strictly ranks you with how you do within your section. Your other body of work factors in, in no way. 2 points for every section win. Minus 2 points for every section loss. If you only play a team once, you get 3 points for a win. If you don't play a team in your section at least once, you get a minus 3 for each team not played. Applying that to 8AA, Elk River would have been the 1 seed, with one more point than Roseau. Moorhead would have been a 3 seed, losing to Roseau by one point because of the extra section loss to Buffalo. The rest of the teams would have fell exactly where they fell according to this mornings coaches seedings. Elk would have gotten the 1 seed by not playing 2 of the top teams in the section. Right or wrong it takes it out of the coaches hands. I would be curious to see how this would result in other sections compared to how they will be seeded. QRF is a joke as Grand Rapids, gets dinged for losing to one of the best teams in the state in Hermantown and likewise, Roseau would have gotten a big ding for losing to a top team in Warroad.

Sparlimb wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:38 pm I always see it as a one and done tournament. It doesn't matter your seed. You likely need to beat the best team in your section besides you no matter what. Every once in awhile you get lucky and there's an upset. That's why I don't care where Gentry gets placed in 4AA. If HM is a state contender, then they better be able to win that game. Period. And if they can't, then they didn't deserve to win state. Winning 6 games in a row is no joke, but someone manages it every year. And along the way they play tougher teams.

Elk River is, in no way, the #1 seed. Moorhead and Roseau are both better and will play for the section championship.

Delayedoffsides wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:06 pm

Green and White Fan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:00 pm I put together a rating system that strictly ranks you with how you do within your section. Your other body of work factors in, in no way. 2 points for every section win. Minus 2 points for every section loss. If you only play a team once, you get 3 points for a win. If you don't play a team in your section at least once, you get a minus 3 for each team not played. Applying that to 8AA, Elk River would have been the 1 seed, with one more point than Roseau. Moorhead would have been a 3 seed, losing to Roseau by one point because of the extra section loss to Buffalo. The rest of the teams would have fell exactly where they fell according to this mornings coaches seedings. Elk would have gotten the 1 seed by not playing 2 of the top teams in the section. Right or wrong it takes it out of the coaches hands. I would be curious to see how this would result in other sections compared to how they will be seeded. QRF is a joke as Grand Rapids, gets dinged for losing to one of the best teams in the state in Hermantown and likewise, Roseau would have gotten a big ding for losing to a top team in Warroad.

How did GR get dinged for losing to HT? According to most even if they won that game they weren’t going to catch Andover for the #1 seed anyway.

StanleyCup55 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:23 am

Delayedoffsides wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:06 pm

Green and White Fan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:00 pm I put together a rating system that strictly ranks you with how you do within your section. Your other body of work factors in, in no way. 2 points for every section win. Minus 2 points for every section loss. If you only play a team once, you get 3 points for a win. If you don't play a team in your section at least once, you get a minus 3 for each team not played. Applying that to 8AA, Elk River would have been the 1 seed, with one more point than Roseau. Moorhead would have been a 3 seed, losing to Roseau by one point because of the extra section loss to Buffalo. The rest of the teams would have fell exactly where they fell according to this mornings coaches seedings. Elk would have gotten the 1 seed by not playing 2 of the top teams in the section. Right or wrong it takes it out of the coaches hands. I would be curious to see how this would result in other sections compared to how they will be seeded. QRF is a joke as Grand Rapids, gets dinged for losing to one of the best teams in the state in Hermantown and likewise, Roseau would have gotten a big ding for losing to a top team in Warroad.

How did GR get dinged for losing to HT? According to most even if they won that game they weren’t going to catch Andover for the #1 seed anyway.

How on God’s green earth would Andover be seeded above GR? Rapids beat them head to head but QRF says different so they go with that? Lol. Nice system ya got there

Green and White Fan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:30 am The seedings are for sections and your body of work in the section. You should play everyone at least once.

Green and White Fan wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 8:36 am SO what you are really saying is we should do away with sections and just rank teams and send the top 8 to state??? I know many in the metro would like that. OF course you should have to play games within your section. Your goal is to win your section and get to the state tournament. To fairly rank how you stack up in your section you should have to play some section games! Where have I ever mentioned playing a team twice??

East Side Pioneer Guy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:49 pm

Green and White Fan wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 8:36 am SO what you are really saying is we should do away with sections and just rank teams and send the top 8 to state??? I know many in the metro would like that. OF course you should have to play games within your section. Your goal is to win your section and get to the state tournament. To fairly rank how you stack up in your section you should have to play some section games! Where have I ever mentioned playing a team twice??

I'm not sure where you got that; I would humbly suggest you re-read my comments.

Green and White Fan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:30 am The seedings are for sections and your body of work in the section. You should play everyone at least once.

Joe2015 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:50 am

Green and White Fan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:30 am The seedings are for sections and your body of work in the section. You should play everyone at least once.

Agreed

East Side Pioneer Guy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:28 pm

Joe2015 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:50 am

Green and White Fan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:30 am The seedings are for sections and your body of work in the section. You should play everyone at least once.

Agreed

Again I have to ask, where did this idea come from? I've never heard it before.

To my mind, a playoff is seeded based on a (fallable) predicted finish of the teams for the purpose of fairness. And when I say fairness, I mean that you want the best two teams to meet for the championship, as opposed to them meeting in an earlier round, and a lesser team not only making it to the final via an easier path.

Further, in high school play, more weight should be given to games played more recently than those played at the beginning of the season. Would anyone here seed STA ahead of Cre-tine at this point? CDH is clearly at the top of their section, even though they lost to STA twice before Christmas. The implication here is that a game played on November 30 would be weighted equally to a game played on Feb. 18. You really want to stick with that?

It was not all that long ago that there was no state tournament seeding, and it was not at all uncommon to see a couple of teams in the top 4 meet in the first round. 1979 was a really bad set up. John Marshall had a very soft bracket, with I believe Harding, Roosevelt, and another cream puff. The upper bracket was loaded with HM, the Edina Formerly Known as East, Roseau, and Grand Rapids.

So I'm going to belabor the point by again asking, should the state tournament be seeded solely based on games between the participants?

East Side Pioneer Guy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 6:59 am Later games get weighted more because we are making predictions or estimations on how well a team will perform at the section and state tournaments. It's not uncommon, at this time of year, to hear comments like, "You don't want to be playing them now," or "They're peaking at the right time." Would you rather your team go 8 - 1 in February or December? A loss in the last week of the regular season isn't always a bad thing. Kids can start to believe the hype and get big heads with a ten game winning streak, and a little ego deflation just before sections is good. But losing 3 out of your last 5 is definitely not a good sign.

Joe2015 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 8:27 am

East Side Pioneer Guy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 6:59 am Later games get weighted more because we are making predictions or estimations on how well a team will perform at the section and state tournaments. It's not uncommon, at this time of year, to hear comments like, "You don't want to be playing them now," or "They're peaking at the right time." Would you rather your team go 8 - 1 in February or December? A loss in the last week of the regular season isn't always a bad thing. Kids can start to believe the hype and get big heads with a ten game winning streak, and a little ego deflation just before sections is good. But losing 3 out of your last 5 is definitely not a good sign.

It depends what you are talking about though: if making predictions/speculating on a message board or on a podcast or talking it over with your friends on which teams will come out of a section (or win state), sure you might bring up the argument about who is playing the best

But for section seedings, it really shouldnt matter: your seed should reflect your season as a whole. Whoever had the best season start to finish should be the top seed

East Side Pioneer Guy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:04 am

Joe2015 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 8:27 am

East Side Pioneer Guy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 6:59 am Later games get weighted more because we are making predictions or estimations on how well a team will perform at the section and state tournaments. It's not uncommon, at this time of year, to hear comments like, "You don't want to be playing them now," or "They're peaking at the right time." Would you rather your team go 8 - 1 in February or December? A loss in the last week of the regular season isn't always a bad thing. Kids can start to believe the hype and get big heads with a ten game winning streak, and a little ego deflation just before sections is good. But losing 3 out of your last 5 is definitely not a good sign.

It depends what you are talking about though: if making predictions/speculating on a message board or on a podcast or talking it over with your friends on which teams will come out of a section (or win state), sure you might bring up the argument about who is playing the best

But for section seedings, it really shouldnt matter: your seed should reflect your season as a whole. Whoever had the best season start to finish should be the top seed

I'd agree with that at the professional level, but not at the youth level, where players can make huge strides over the course of a season. Football is an 8 game regular season, so judging by the entire season makes more sense. But in a sport with a 25 game season, more recent play is far more determinative.

What I'm saying is true. If you don't believe me, just ask me and I'll tell you.

If you ae judging by the entire season, would you weight that for strength of schedule?