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notahockeyguy wrote:The mshsl does not care how good you are. They are all about participation. Their model is based on geography and nothing else. They don't care how good you are or who you are. BSM is in section 5 or 6 for almost all sports and that is where they belong geography wise according to the model

Well as I attempted to point out the current alignments are not based strictly on geography. If this is all that matters then the model is flawed. We'll just have to see what happens for next year.

MNHockeyFan wrote:If one of the goals for the State Tourney is to showcase the state's best talent, why not take advantage of the semi-annual sections re-alignment to help accomplish this?

I think that this is possibly a flaw in the position of those who'd like to see re-alignment. While the MSHSL would like to see the state's best talent at the state tourney, its not THE goal or (I'm guessing) even a one of the over-riding concerns when section re-alignment discussions come around.

If you're unhappy with 4 of the top teams in the state in the same section, what you're really after is seeding the playoffs, not re-alignment. I seriously doubt that the MSHSL is ready to take on a 16 team (top 2 in each section) tourney involving a subjective seeding process. (And remember that we're talking about both boys and girls and multiple tournaments; hockey, basketball, football, etc.)

Besides, even with the top 2 from each section going to state, someone's going to move to expand the tournament to 32 teams because they feel their section's 3rd and 4th teams should be in the top 16.

I'd say that the goal of the state tournament is to crown a state champion. The goal of section alignment is more likley to concern the logistics of playoffs, not predicting who's going to have the best teams and ensuring them a trip to state.

Good points. The power in sections change every year as kids graduate, go to TB, transfer, get injured, quit, etc. - so realigning teams for next year based on old teams won't work. There will always be sections with better perceived depth - there are 6+ entities doing rankings that are all over the place.

This year section 6 may (OR MAY NOT) turn out to be the 900 lb. gorilla. When the games start to really count, and if section 6 doesn't win state - or even get to the championship game - then it may turn out that some other section was really the toughest. Unless your pretty confident the state championship will be decided in section 6 play-offs?

Section 6 is hands down the toughest section. NO other section comes close. #1, 2, 4, and 10 in LPHs current rankings all come from this section. Section 5 might be close.

Section 5 is pretty tough... Eagan, CDH, AHA and Burnsville all have a great shot at making it to State!

Example: Edina, Wayzata, BSM and EP all won their X-mas tourneys.

IMO: Section 6 semi finals will be tougher than the state tourney semi finals.

Another example: Last year EP won section 6 beating Edina 3-2 in a close game at the semis and Wayzata 2-0 (I believe) in the finals. EP then went on to beat Stillwater 6-1, Cloquet 3-1 and Coon Rapids 6-1.

Which ever team comes out of section 6 will be the favorite to win state. Let's not forget about Hopkins. They are really coming on as a team and they could get the #5 seed in section 6.

SEMetro wrote:Good points. The power in sections change every year as kids graduate, go to TB, transfer, get injured, quit, etc. - so realigning teams for next year based on old teams won't work. There will always be sections with better perceived depth - there are 6+ entities doing rankings that are all over the place.

Actually as the season's progressed the rankings for the Top 10 have become remarkably consistent with each other. The major execption has been the Pioneer Press which seems to march to a different drummer, as has been noted elsewhere on this board. The semi-annual sectional review process is plenty adequate to keep the sections competitive with one another, even accounting for the player changes on the individual teams, but from what I'm reading here achieving balance is not the objective. I'm not arguing that it should be the only objective, or even the primary consideration for that matter, but it does present an opportunity for achieving some measure of balance without having to make wholesale changes.

SEMetro wrote:This year section 6 may (OR MAY NOT) turn out to be the 900 lb. gorilla. When the games start to really count, and if section 6 doesn't win state - or even get to the championship game - then it may turn out that some other section was really the toughest. Unless your pretty confident the state championship will be decided in section 6 play-offs?

It's hard to argue that any other section is even comparable to Section 6. Based on the results over the entire season, it's not even close. Year to date Eden Prairie, Edina and BSM are a combined 57-3-4, and last year the combined record was something very similar. What's the record of the three best teams in any other section and how does it stack up?

The records for the teams you mentioned this year are partially (not completely) a reflection of the fact that they (BSM, Edina, EP) are from different conferences. They do not beat up on each other twice a year.

In any event - hard to argue for realignment if it turns out that the top team wasn't from Section 6 to begin with. Section 6 gets a chance to prove (or disprove) your theory in St. Paul.

SEMetro wrote:The records for the teams you mentioned this year are partially (not completely) a reflection of the fact that they (BSM, Edina, EP) are from different conferences. They do not beat up on each other twice a year.

Not too valid of an argument. Take a look at the other mostly Metro sections:

2AA - Roseville (#3 overall) is the section's top rated team and is a member of the Suburban East. The next highest rated is Hill Murray of the Classic Suburban.

3AA - Highest rated Stillwater (# 7 overall) is in the Suburban East, followed by Centennial of the NW Suburban.

4AA - Coon Rapids (#9 overall) and North Metro are tops here and both belong to the NW Suburban, but North Metro is a distant 2nd and arguably CR should win against them anyway. And 3rd is Armstong of the Classic Lake.

5AA - Holy Angels (#5 overall) of the Missota has the clear edge here, and their chief section rivals Burnville and Eagan are in the Lake Conference; followed by CDH of the Suburban East.

So the point is that the records of these section leaders are not being terribly tarnished due to their closest section competitors being members of the same conference. It's really not much different than the situation in Section 6.

SEMetro wrote:In any event - hard to argue for realignment if it turns out that the top team wasn't from Section 6 to begin with. Section 6 gets a chance to prove (or disprove) your theory in St. Paul.

With the possible exception of Section 1 (sorry, Section 1 fans), you are right that any of the current leaders of the other sections has a shot at capturing the state title. But one thing is for certain: the road getting their will be a helluva lot easier than it is for any of the teams in Section 6, where four of the top ten teams (40%!) are all from the same section.

I am sure someone has Wayzata in the top 10, but they are 1-4-1 in their last 6 games - and 4th in their conference (of 5 teams). But like I said, everyone has a poll.

SEMetro wrote:I am sure someone has Wayzata in the top 10, but they are 1-4-1 in their last 6 games - and 4th in their conference (of 5 teams). But like I said, everyone has a poll.

No question they've struggled a bit lately, but they've played a really tough schedule - according to KRACH their SOS has been THE toughest in the state, which probably explains why they still deserve Top 10 Class AA ranking consideration:

KRACH - No. 10
QRF - No. 5
LPH - No. 10
Star Tribune - No. 10

Not only has their schedule already been tough, but they still have to play Eden Prairie (tonight) and Edina, plus Armstong which has been very tough at times also. With only 5 teams in the conference, the Classic Lake teams can make their overall schedule as easy or as difficult as they want, and Wayzata obviously chose difficult.

http://www.startribune.com/526/story/964451.html

Edina, Eden Prairie girls continue smooth sailing
The state's two best girls' hockey teams just happen to be in the same section.
From Staff Reports
Last update: January 27, 2007 – 10:59 PM

The state's two best girls' hockey teams just happen to be in the same section.
Senior forward Brittney Evans celebrated her birthday with a pure hat trick and one assist, leading Class 2A, No. 2 Edina (19-0-3) to a 6-1 victory over Hopkins in the Classic Lake on Saturday at Braemar Arena.

Eden Prairie, the state's top-ranked team and also in Section 6, extended its winning streak to 53 games with a 3-0 shutout of Lakeville South in the Lake.

Rachel Blader scored the only goal that Eagles netminder Maddie Burke needed midway through the second period. The Eagles outshot Lakeville South 63-9. Eighth-grader Chelsea Laden made 60 saves.

The winning streak is the second-longest in state history. South St. Paul (2001-03) owns the record with 62 consecutive victories

EDINA WILL GIVE EP EVERYTHING THEY CAN HANDLE & VERY GOOD CHANCE OF SENDING THEM HOME!!

BCGHockey wrote:EDINA WILL GIVE EP EVERYTHING THEY CAN HANDLE & VERY GOOD CHANCE OF SENDING THEM HOME!!

I don't disagree - but only IF they meet in the section finals.

ghshockeyfan wrote:http://www.startribune.com/526/story/964451.html

Edina, Eden Prairie girls continue smooth sailing
The state's two best girls' hockey teams just happen to be in the same section.
From Staff Reports
Last update: January 27, 2007 – 10:59 PM

The state's two best girls' hockey teams just happen to be in the same section.
Senior forward Brittney Evans celebrated her birthday with a pure hat trick and one assist, leading Class 2A, No. 2 Edina (19-0-3) to a 6-1 victory over Hopkins in the Classic Lake on Saturday at Braemar Arena.

For what it's worth, Edina beat Minnetonka, not Hopkins on Saturday...

MNHockeyFan wrote:

BCGHockey wrote:EDINA WILL GIVE EP EVERYTHING THEY CAN HANDLE & VERY GOOD CHANCE OF SENDING THEM HOME!!

I don't disagree - but only IF they meet in the section finals.

Your right! They would have to get past Benilde first. But if they do I think their momentum will carry them past E.P. and possibly a state championship!

Looks like the big green is gaining favor! They are closing the gap between themselves and the cake eaters to the west.

BCGHockey wrote:Looks like the big green is gaining favor! They are closing the gap between themselves and the cake eaters to the west.

Truth be told, all of the top 4 teams in the section - EP, Edina, BSM and Wayzata - are all cake eaters to some degree. But I think everyone would agree that Edina holds the "all time cake eaters trophy", and they won't surrender it without a fight!

With EP roster are they trying to spread the cake eater wealth?

gopher9 wrote:Your right! They [Edina] would have to get past Benilde first. But if they do I think their momentum will carry them past E.P. and possibly a state championship!

And EP will first have to get past probably Wayzata or Hopkins in the semi's, which by no means is a sure thing either. And nobody should look past their first round opponents.

If you intend to go to any of the semi-final Section 6 games, I would suggest getting to Parade early, as the place will be rockin'!

So will this win by Wayzata lock up the # 4 seed? The way it sits right now: #1 ep, #2 edina, #3 BSM, #4 wayzata, & #5 Hopkins?

I figure it's about that time to start asking about seeding... I'd be curious to see how people see this section being seeded...

KRACH says:

(But you may need to adjust for head-to-head results??? - I haven't followed that close enough to know...)

1 Eden Prairie 2376.036
2 Edina 616.892
3 Benilde-St. Margarets 333.892
4 Wayzata 151.000
5 Hopkins 74.924
6 Minnetonka 21.534
7 Prior Lake 16.924
8 Chaska 11.374
9 Bloom. Jefferson 10.262

The Hopkins Wayzeta seeding will be interesting. Hopkins is 5-2-1 in section play, Way is 2-5-1. Hopkins is 1-0-1 against Wayzeta in head to head. In the end it only determines who is the home team at the game at Parade.

xk1 wrote:The Hopkins Wayzeta seeding will be interesting. Hopkins is 5-2-1 in section play, Way is 2-5-1. Hopkins is 1-0-1 against Wayzeta in head to head. In the end it only determines who is the home team at the game at Parade.

Great point.

My guess is they had a seeding meeting today, does anyone know the outcome?

xk1 wrote:My guess is they had a seeding meeting today, does anyone know the outcome?

Not yet up on the web site as of 8:45 am this morning. Many of the other sections are posted.

My guess is they haven't met yet. Wayzata still has a game to play tonight (according to MaxPreps) , don't know if that has any bearing on the seeding.