Wise Old Man wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:10 pm7TIMECHAMPS wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:55 am Agreed GR. I will add that if we are going to close schools and activities we at least have to be honest with ourselves about the reasons for doing it. We are 4 months in now and there hasn’t been a single school aged kid that has died in MN. Are we closing schools for their safety and out of their best interest? Or are we asking them to make sacrifices for the elderly? My opinion is that kids are the ones bearing the brunt of the side effects of this. They’re sacrificing their education, their social lives/experiences (which is very important at those ages), and are likely the ones that actually have to deal with this monster debt that we are accumulating. Statistically speaking the bus ride to school bears a higher chance of death than Covid for most kids. So it really isn’t fair to try justify any of these decisions with statements like “we are doing this for the safety of the kids.” At least be honest about what the reasons are.
First, to OldManRiver... I’m sorry, so the Buffalo principle didn’t state it exactly the way YOU think she should’ve but, when you, Goldy, grindian, and 7Times, have to actually put YOUR fannies and livelihoods on the actual line from a decision-making standpoint, we’ll see how YOU react. You guys are freaking unbelievable. How about trying to walk a day in a person’s shoes before you criticize them. As she/he said, extracurriculars — as beneficial as we know they are — ARE A PRIVILEGE and NOT A RIGHT! Remember, they are sitting in rooms listening to the best medical experts in our state and, even nationally, in educating themselves in regards to making the best decisions possible.
And yes 7Times, no one under 19 has died. Thank freaking God. Maybe, just MAYBE that’s due to the way our state’s leadership has reacted to the situation. Did you ever think of that?!? And yes, one of the most significant reasons we are considering closing schools/not having activities IS to help protect the elderly/immune compromised. No one in a position of authority who has said we need to seriously consider this, has said anything differently. And, there are a significant number of younger and healthy people — in my definition that’s 18-60 — that have been infected, had significant symptoms, and in all likelihood will have lifelong disabilities/issues with various organs/systems of body function. THIS ISNT JUST ABOUT THE DEATHS...It’s amazing how when one of us brings that specific point up, none of you geniuses ever responds to it.
Next to Goldy... I can promise you that — and you can ask Elliot this as well — as someone deeply involved at the youth level, if the MSHSL doesn’t play, it’s literally a 99% chance Minnesota Hockey doesn’t either. That’s just a fact. Again, It’s really interesting that those of you that think playing or participating in any type of recreational/amateur sport or other activity is worth the lives of who knows how many people — yes, the vast majority being elderly but, a now increasing number of younger people — especially when literally everyone of those potentially thousands of deaths (yes, potentially thousands) is absolutely and completely preventable. Again I ask any of you in this camp, PLEASE provide me the ACTUAL FREAKING NUMBER of preventable/“acceptable” deaths that you believe justifies playing sports or doing activities that will very likely increase spread AND lead to more preventable deaths? C’mon, if you REALLY believe in your position, then provide the damn number. Because THAT IS the ONLY data point that matters in this discussion/debate. All of the other things that kids will miss out on — as unfortunate as they are — do NOT justify whatever activity it is if that participation leads to preventable deaths. We’re not talking about shutting things down “forever” as a large number of “got to open it up” people claim. Literally every expert in infectious disease and vaccines is saying we will like have a number of — not just one but, a number of — effective vaccines that are widely distributed by early 2021. 6-8 months doesn’t meet my or most people’s definitions of “forever”.
In a previous post, I provided an example of what happened at a two day hockey camp in Ashland. 13 confirmed infections (a mix of players and parents) plus — and this was a week ago — 11 more symptomatic waiting on results. Which, also caused to different baseball leagues in two different states to suspend play for at least a week. Just one attempt at an indoor team sports event. One attempt. Now, from a risk assessment standpoint is having this type of even with zero restrictions — no mask requirements, no limits on people in the rink (it is Wisconsin so...) the same as doing something similar, but with masks required to be worn by players and coaches in and out of the rink and, no parents allowed inside? No, completely different. But, that’s probably the maximum amount of activity we can safely do without significantly increasing the risk of spread.
And really 7Times, please tell me you’re not this freaking dense. NO, we aren’t closing schools to only protect kids. 1/3 of our teachers are over 50/have underlying health issues that make them far more susceptible to severe symptoms. Now, if you try and tell me that they should just stay home, then you can also tell me where you’re getting all of the necessary replacements. Especially when the vast majority of current subs are in their 60s. Further along the whole ridiculousness of the “are we shutting down schools to protect kids” question — no, we’re also shutting down schools to try and limit the number of elderly who live with their grandkids — you know, those who you guys even admit are at significant risk from getting sick and dying.
As for your “monster debt” comment. A couple things... One, it sure would be nice to have that $23 trilllion In tax cuts we have the top 1% and corporations that they didn’t need. You know, the tax cut that would “pay for itself”. The one that literally almost no one in the actual middle class received anything significant from? And, that had no measurable impact on improving the economy from the last two years of the Obama administration? THAT tax cut. Number two, and I’ve laid this out previously, interest rates for the government are literally almost at zero. Meaning, we aren’t paying hardly any interest on the current pandemic spending which makes cut far easier to pay those monies back. And again, we could very easily do what other western democracies have done and just paid everyone at least $3K a month until a vaccine, halted all loan payments on cars, houses, and college debt until we had a vaccine. We could’ve easily done that thru next June with no problem.
Tell it like it is WOM!!
And find me one substitute teacher that would want to go into a school for 1 day to sit in 6 classes with 30 students each, where anyone of them might be carrying the virus. Good luck with that one!
Wake up people and get your head out of the sand. It's a pandemic and sacrifices will need to be made to get through it. Sacrifices by all.