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kniven wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:06 pm Hermantown vs Duluth East would instantly become the very best rivalry in the state (and it wouldn’t be close).

rainier2 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:47 pm

Yoopskater wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:26 am If the court of public opinion says that Hermantown needs to move up because of incoming transfers, then every team that accepts transfers should move up. Otherwise you are just penalizing success.

The transfers are only the tiniest tip of the iceberg. Hermantown needs to move up because:

2016-beat AA champ Wayzata
2017-beat AA champ GR
2018-played AA champ Tonka tough in 5-3 loss
2019-tied undefeated AA favorite Tonka

They play and compete well at AA all throughout youth hockey.

They play a AA-heavy HS schedule.

Have gone to state 9 years in a row, including 8 straight A title games, and have 3 A titles in the last 11 years, which would have been several more had a certain metro private not been sandbagging at an even higher level. They have nothing left to accomplish in Class A.

They are a suburban school in a metro area who gets plenty of open enrollees and transfers.

The grand patriarch of their program (Plante) complained publicly on a yearly basis about how metro teams that get kids from all over shouldn't be in Class A beating up on small community teams. Many hawk fans and parents said the same thing.

Mark Parrish, Lou Nanne, and Mike McGraw have all stated on TV that Hermantown should move up to AA.

Hermantown's current head coach has stated publicly that they should be in AA.

The players deserve the opportunity to compete against teams of their same caliber in the postseason, not just during regular season and in youth hockey.

Moving to AA is a promotion, not a penalty.

GopherHockey wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:27 pm

rainier2 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:47 pm

Yoopskater wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:26 am If the court of public opinion says that Hermantown needs to move up because of incoming transfers, then every team that accepts transfers should move up. Otherwise you are just penalizing success.

The transfers are only the tiniest tip of the iceberg. Hermantown needs to move up because:

2016-beat AA champ Wayzata
2017-beat AA champ GR
2018-played AA champ Tonka tough in 5-3 loss
2019-tied undefeated AA favorite Tonka

They play and compete well at AA all throughout youth hockey.

They play a AA-heavy HS schedule.

Have gone to state 9 years in a row, including 8 straight A title games, and have 3 A titles in the last 11 years, which would have been several more had a certain metro private not been sandbagging at an even higher level. They have nothing left to accomplish in Class A.

They are a suburban school in a metro area who gets plenty of open enrollees and transfers.

The grand patriarch of their program (Plante) complained publicly on a yearly basis about how metro teams that get kids from all over shouldn't be in Class A beating up on small community teams. Many hawk fans and parents said the same thing.

Mark Parrish, Lou Nanne, and Mike McGraw have all stated on TV that Hermantown should move up to AA.

Hermantown's current head coach has stated publicly that they should be in AA.

The players deserve the opportunity to compete against teams of their same caliber in the postseason, not just during regular season and in youth hockey.

Moving to AA is a promotion, not a penalty.

That’s funny. Hermantown pissing and moaning for all those years they couldn’t get past the Cadets or Breck and now they’re no different than they were back then. Not sure how many times Plante was $&@$ing they should move up and then his team although he’s no longer there never had the stones to move up. Embarrassing

hockey59 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:15 pm Attended HT vs Greenway tonight...and with all due respect to Greenway, just a boring game. 4-0 final and it really wasn’t even that close. Greenway is a good Single A team, in all phases of their game. The problem is Hermantown is a good AA team, in all phases of their game. ANYBODY who thinks it’s kosher for Hermantown to remain in Single A after this season concludes is simply DELUSIONAL. Any team that’s defeated the AA Champion (Wayzata in 16, GR in 17) lost to Tonka in 18 & now tied Tonka in 19...has no business playing post season single a hockey PERIOD...END OF STORY.

kniven wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:09 pm As long as AA schools keep Hermantown on their many regular season schedules the Hawks can stay in A because they can. They are winning in A and AA during the regular season, they go to the state tournament every year, hockey players and their parents, all across northern Minnesota, want to play hockey for Hermantown, they are consistently sending hockey players to D1, and the kids and parents are having a blast. Unless the MSHSL police come to Hermantown to arrest them, they are living the dream.

StanleyCup55 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:07 am

kniven wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:09 pm As long as AA schools keep Hermantown on their many regular season schedules the Hawks can stay in A because they can. They are winning in A and AA during the regular season, they go to the state tournament every year, hockey players and their parents, all across northern Minnesota, want to play hockey for Hermantown, they are consistently sending hockey players to D1, and the kids and parents are having a blast. Unless the MSHSL police come to Hermantown to arrest them, they are living the dream.

Good for the parents and kids. I would actually like to see a competitive Class A tournament but instead you get 10-0 blowouts all day Wednesday. How is that a state tournament? The Class A tourney blows and here’s one reason why.

I remember watching Litchfield when they made it a few years ago. Prior to their quarterfinal game the tv did a great story on them and how they overcame odds to make it to state and the whole town rallied around them. I think it was their first trip to state. Tons of excitement and the town shut down that Wednesday and had a great fan base. Great story.

Then, they got blown out 11-3 by Hermantown in the quarterfinal game. I’m not the type that feels bad for Litchfield but I am the type that sees how that is complete BS for a state tournament and needs to be addressed. It would be great if we could have some good games to watch on Wednesday instead of a bunch of mismatches.

StanleyCup55 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:07 am

kniven wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:09 pm As long as AA schools keep Hermantown on their many regular season schedules the Hawks can stay in A because they can. They are winning in A and AA during the regular season, they go to the state tournament every year, hockey players and their parents, all across northern Minnesota, want to play hockey for Hermantown, they are consistently sending hockey players to D1, and the kids and parents are having a blast. Unless the MSHSL police come to Hermantown to arrest them, they are living the dream.

Good for the parents and kids. I would actually like to see a competitive Class A tournament but instead you get 10-0 blowouts all day Wednesday. How is that a state tournament? The Class A tourney blows and here’s one reason why.

I remember watching Litchfield when they made it a few years ago. Prior to their quarterfinal game the tv did a great story on them and how they overcame odds to make it to state and the whole town rallied around them. I think it was their first trip to state. Tons of excitement and the town shut down that Wednesday and had a great fan base. Great story.

Then, they got blown out 11-3 by Hermantown in the quarterfinal game. I’m not the type that feels bad for Litchfield but I am the type that sees how that is complete BS for a state tournament and needs to be addressed. It would be great if we could have some good games to watch on Wednesday instead of a bunch of mismatches.

Mite-dad wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:54 am

StanleyCup55 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:07 am

kniven wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:09 pm As long as AA schools keep Hermantown on their many regular season schedules the Hawks can stay in A because they can. They are winning in A and AA during the regular season, they go to the state tournament every year, hockey players and their parents, all across northern Minnesota, want to play hockey for Hermantown, they are consistently sending hockey players to D1, and the kids and parents are having a blast. Unless the MSHSL police come to Hermantown to arrest them, they are living the dream.

Good for the parents and kids. I would actually like to see a competitive Class A tournament but instead you get 10-0 blowouts all day Wednesday. How is that a state tournament? The Class A tourney blows and here’s one reason why.

I remember watching Litchfield when they made it a few years ago. Prior to their quarterfinal game the tv did a great story on them and how they overcame odds to make it to state and the whole town rallied around them. I think it was their first trip to state. Tons of excitement and the town shut down that Wednesday and had a great fan base. Great story.

Then, they got blown out 11-3 by Hermantown in the quarterfinal game. I’m not the type that feels bad for Litchfield but I am the type that sees how that is complete BS for a state tournament and needs to be addressed. It would be great if we could have some good games to watch on Wednesday instead of a bunch of mismatches.

Two ways to address this. 1. Make the sandbaggers move up, or, 2. Don't allow teams to move from A to AA.

elliott70 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:50 am Perhaps we need to go to a new and improved Tier 1 & 2 (&3) program.

The top 16 by page-stat as of February something are tier 1.
The next 32 are Tier 2.
The balance Tier 3.

Top 16 play-off on Saturday to get the top 8 for state.
The next 32 playoff on Tues - Friday for the top 8 to state.
These are at the X
The balance have some sort of sections to determine state competitors and play at Ridder.
The Tier 3 would include teams such as

WARROAD EAST RIDGE FARMINGTON ROCHESTER CENTURY ROCHESTER MAYO THIEF RIVER FALLS
ROBB ARMSTRONG/COOPER PARK (C.G.) ST LOUIS PARK MONTICELLO DULUTH DENFELD ST CLOUD_
CHANHASSEN ROGERS MARSHALL DELANO DULUTH MARSHALL OWATONNA NORTHFIELD MOUND WESTONKA
WOODBURY NORTH BRANCH PRINCETON ANOKA VIRGINIA EVELETH GILBERT
LITCHFIELD ST PAUL ACADEMY MANKATO EAST BRECK NEW PRAGUE MINNESOTA RIVER

Something needs to be done. Old high school hockey fans are mostly comparable to Major League Baseball purest. Times have changed. You can’t run things the same way you did 60 years ago. Come on, man.....

The tier 1 (AAA) would be
EDINA MINNETONKA BLAINE ANDOVER HERMANTOWN MAPLE GROVE EDEN PRAIRIE WAYZATA
CHASKA ST THOMAS ACADEMY DULUTH EAST ST CLOUD CATHEDRAL HILL MURRAY
EAGAN LAKEVILLE SOUTH HOLY FAMILY
The usual teams minus one or two.

And tier 2 would be a great group.

Of course, we are putting pressure on Lee to continue to run pagestat at the high level to which we have grown accustom.

elliott70 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:50 am Perhaps we need to go to a new and improved Tier 1 & 2 (&3) program.

The top 16 by page-stat as of February something are tier 1.
The next 32 are Tier 2.
The balance Tier 3.

Top 16 play-off on Saturday to get the top 8 for state.
The next 32 playoff on Tues - Friday for the top 8 to state.
These are at the X
The balance have some sort of sections to determine state competitors and play at Ridder.
The Tier 3 would include teams such as

WARROAD EAST RIDGE FARMINGTON ROCHESTER CENTURY ROCHESTER MAYO THIEF RIVER FALLS
ROBB ARMSTRONG/COOPER PARK (C.G.) ST LOUIS PARK MONTICELLO DULUTH DENFELD ST CLOUD_
CHANHASSEN ROGERS MARSHALL DELANO DULUTH MARSHALL OWATONNA NORTHFIELD MOUND WESTONKA
WOODBURY NORTH BRANCH PRINCETON ANOKA VIRGINIA EVELETH GILBERT
LITCHFIELD ST PAUL ACADEMY MANKATO EAST BRECK NEW PRAGUE MINNESOTA RIVER

The tier 1 (AAA) would be
EDINA MINNETONKA BLAINE ANDOVER HERMANTOWN MAPLE GROVE EDEN PRAIRIE WAYZATA
CHASKA ST THOMAS ACADEMY DULUTH EAST ST CLOUD CATHEDRAL HILL MURRAY
EAGAN LAKEVILLE SOUTH HOLY FAMILY
The usual teams minus one or two.

And tier 2 would be a great group.

Of course, we are putting pressure on Lee to continue to run pagestat at the high level to which we have grown accustom.

Doc Holliday wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:34 pm Interesting discussions.....

A few questions I'm wondering.....
-If Hermantown was playing youth hockey at the A level, rather than the AA level, would people be any less upset?

-----For me, I think that would be a big thing for me. Bottom line is they are a Class A school, enrollment wise. Sure they have some advantages for sure, but they still are a Class A school. But playing the youth hockey at the AA level tells me that they are confident enough in their ability to compete with the big programs. Discuss....

elliott70 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:03 pm The problem with hockey is that school enrollment does not mean much.
The quality of the youth program is the most determining factor (and ability to keep kids in your program/high school) that really matters.

Jeffy95 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:29 pm

elliott70 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:03 pm The problem with hockey is that school enrollment does not mean much.
The quality of the youth program is the most determining factor (and ability to keep kids in your program/high school) that really matters.

Absolutely. Enrollment only matters to those very few that are trying to hide behind it. If enrollment was that important, none of us in the Hockey world would have ever heard of Eveleth, I-Falls, Roseau, Rapids, Bemidji, Warroad, Cloquet, Hermantown, EGF, TRF, list goes on an on. And Minneapolis would have won the last 5 AA Championships!

Jeffy95 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:18 pm

Doc Holliday wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:34 pm Interesting discussions.....

A few questions I'm wondering.....
-If Hermantown was playing youth hockey at the A level, rather than the AA level, would people be any less upset?

-----For me, I think that would be a big thing for me. Bottom line is they are a Class A school, enrollment wise. Sure they have some advantages for sure, but they still are a Class A school. But playing the youth hockey at the AA level tells me that they are confident enough in their ability to compete with the big programs. Discuss....

Yes, of course this would make a huge difference. If they played A in Youth they could logically say, "We're an A program, so leave us alone." Nobody could really argue with that. Instead, they themselves provide the very proof that they know full well that they are not an A Program. So they can't make that claim. Those who have tried looked like idiots and have since stopped doing it. And they wouldn't have as many top players transfer in to fuel the fire.

Their entire System is set up to attract top players from the outside. They have a system that nobody else in the state has. Their pitch is, "You have a top player? Send them to Hermantown. They will play AA all through youth which will push them to be the best they can be. They will continue to play top AA teams in High School regular season to further their development. And then for the last two weeks of each season, we will drop them down a Class so they are guaranteed to play on TV and you can go nuts on Facebook." Today's parents cannot resist that.

Most likely it would all be a moot point. Because if they played A in Youth, they wouldn't have the same success that they've had in the Class A tournament and it probably wouldn't even be a topic. They would probably still go to State quite often, but there's no way they win those last two titles without all the transfers on those teams.

They know exactly what they're doing.

elliott70 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:50 am Perhaps we need to go to a new and improved Tier 1 & 2 (&3) program.

The top 16 by page-stat as of February something are tier 1.
The next 32 are Tier 2.
The balance Tier 3.

Top 16 play-off on Saturday to get the top 8 for state.
The next 32 playoff on Tues - Friday for the top 8 to state.
These are at the X
The balance have some sort of sections to determine state competitors and play at Ridder.
The Tier 3 would include teams such as

WARROAD EAST RIDGE FARMINGTON ROCHESTER CENTURY ROCHESTER MAYO THIEF RIVER FALLS
ROBB ARMSTRONG/COOPER PARK (C.G.) ST LOUIS PARK MONTICELLO DULUTH DENFELD ST CLOUD_
CHANHASSEN ROGERS MARSHALL DELANO DULUTH MARSHALL OWATONNA NORTHFIELD MOUND WESTONKA
WOODBURY NORTH BRANCH PRINCETON ANOKA VIRGINIA EVELETH GILBERT
LITCHFIELD ST PAUL ACADEMY MANKATO EAST BRECK NEW PRAGUE MINNESOTA RIVER

The tier 1 (AAA) would be
EDINA MINNETONKA BLAINE ANDOVER HERMANTOWN MAPLE GROVE EDEN PRAIRIE WAYZATA
CHASKA ST THOMAS ACADEMY DULUTH EAST ST CLOUD CATHEDRAL HILL MURRAY
EAGAN LAKEVILLE SOUTH HOLY FAMILY
The usual teams minus one or two.

And tier 2 would be a great group.

Of course, we are putting pressure on Lee to continue to run pagestat at the high level to which we have grown accustom.

rainier2 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:58 pm

elliott70 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:50 am Perhaps we need to go to a new and improved Tier 1 & 2 (&3) program.

The top 16 by page-stat as of February something are tier 1.
The next 32 are Tier 2.
The balance Tier 3.

Top 16 play-off on Saturday to get the top 8 for state.
The next 32 playoff on Tues - Friday for the top 8 to state.
These are at the X
The balance have some sort of sections to determine state competitors and play at Ridder.
The Tier 3 would include teams such as

WARROAD EAST RIDGE FARMINGTON ROCHESTER CENTURY ROCHESTER MAYO THIEF RIVER FALLS
ROBB ARMSTRONG/COOPER PARK (C.G.) ST LOUIS PARK MONTICELLO DULUTH DENFELD ST CLOUD_
CHANHASSEN ROGERS MARSHALL DELANO DULUTH MARSHALL OWATONNA NORTHFIELD MOUND WESTONKA
WOODBURY NORTH BRANCH PRINCETON ANOKA VIRGINIA EVELETH GILBERT
LITCHFIELD ST PAUL ACADEMY MANKATO EAST BRECK NEW PRAGUE MINNESOTA RIVER

The tier 1 (AAA) would be
EDINA MINNETONKA BLAINE ANDOVER HERMANTOWN MAPLE GROVE EDEN PRAIRIE WAYZATA
CHASKA ST THOMAS ACADEMY DULUTH EAST ST CLOUD CATHEDRAL HILL MURRAY
EAGAN LAKEVILLE SOUTH HOLY FAMILY
The usual teams minus one or two.

And tier 2 would be a great group.

Of course, we are putting pressure on Lee to continue to run pagestat at the high level to which we have grown accustom.

Here is a simple idea:

• Keep the classes as they are now.
• Institute two different AA “promotion triggers”
o Metro trigger-applies to any Class A school within 10 miles of a metro area. (Twin Cities, Duluth, Rochester, St. Cloud, Mankato, and maybe EGF.)
o Outstate trigger-applies to all other Class A schools.

• How it works
o Metro trigger-if any team in this group wins the Class A title, they are sent to AA for the next two years, after which time they may opt back to Class A until they win another title.
o Outstate trigger-if any team in this group wins three class A titles, they are sent to AA for the next two years, after which time they may opt back to Class A until they win another title.

GopherHockey wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:07 pm

rainier2 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:58 pm

elliott70 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:50 am Perhaps we need to go to a new and improved Tier 1 & 2 (&3) program.

The top 16 by page-stat as of February something are tier 1.
The next 32 are Tier 2.
The balance Tier 3.

Top 16 play-off on Saturday to get the top 8 for state.
The next 32 playoff on Tues - Friday for the top 8 to state.
These are at the X
The balance have some sort of sections to determine state competitors and play at Ridder.
The Tier 3 would include teams such as

WARROAD EAST RIDGE FARMINGTON ROCHESTER CENTURY ROCHESTER MAYO THIEF RIVER FALLS
ROBB ARMSTRONG/COOPER PARK (C.G.) ST LOUIS PARK MONTICELLO DULUTH DENFELD ST CLOUD_
CHANHASSEN ROGERS MARSHALL DELANO DULUTH MARSHALL OWATONNA NORTHFIELD MOUND WESTONKA
WOODBURY NORTH BRANCH PRINCETON ANOKA VIRGINIA EVELETH GILBERT
LITCHFIELD ST PAUL ACADEMY MANKATO EAST BRECK NEW PRAGUE MINNESOTA RIVER

The tier 1 (AAA) would be
EDINA MINNETONKA BLAINE ANDOVER HERMANTOWN MAPLE GROVE EDEN PRAIRIE WAYZATA
CHASKA ST THOMAS ACADEMY DULUTH EAST ST CLOUD CATHEDRAL HILL MURRAY
EAGAN LAKEVILLE SOUTH HOLY FAMILY
The usual teams minus one or two.

And tier 2 would be a great group.

Of course, we are putting pressure on Lee to continue to run pagestat at the high level to which we have grown accustom.

Here is a simple idea:

• Keep the classes as they are now.
• Institute two different AA “promotion triggers”
o Metro trigger-applies to any Class A school within 10 miles of a metro area. (Twin Cities, Duluth, Rochester, St. Cloud, Mankato, and maybe EGF.)
o Outstate trigger-applies to all other Class A schools.

• How it works
o Metro trigger-if any team in this group wins the Class A title, they are sent to AA for the next two years, after which time they may opt back to Class A until they win another title.
o Outstate trigger-if any team in this group wins three class A titles, they are sent to AA for the next two years, after which time they may opt back to Class A until they win another title.

I think I would do it a little different but same idea. I think if a team has top 3 finishes 2 or 3 years in a row then bump them up for 2 years. I mean look at the past champions or runner up in A. St. Thomas, Breck, Hermantown and East Grand Forks have all had sustained success over the years. I wouldn’t bump a team to AA just for one year where they had a good run.