HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

"breck should stay home and warroad should just get the trophy. they are that good." Milli Vanilli

You should take ActualFormerPlayer's advise.

I've been hammering warroad and teams like them for years now so don't take this as an excuse.

I'm pretty sure that the girls don't get to choose when to pull their goalie. The coach is an obvious louse, but I don't think we should be attacking the girls about this. If your coach puts you on the ice and tells you to keep trying to score you are going to.

I'm not sure how the community of Warroad can be anything except embarrassed about this. I sued to have a formula for rooting for the state tournament.

Anyone over a private school
Northern schools over city schools
small schools over big schools

I've added
Anyone over Warroad.

P.S.
I don't dislike Warroad because they are good. I'm rooting for Roseville in AA tonight. Pretty sure Brodt wouldn't pull that crap in any game, let alone the state tournament. Any coach who pulls their goalie up 9-0 deserves his/her pink slip.

I think it's great that Warroad is such a strong team, but it is unfortunate that they are in the Class A tourney. They are definitely one of the best teams in the state and that is a credit to their hard work and skill. It is a shame that, because they are a Class A team, they won't be able to call themselves the "Best" team in the state. However, that is the nature of the two class system. They don't need to apologize for that, but I'm sure it would definitely be more satisfying for the girls if they, or Breck for that matter, were playing against teams of their own caliber and having to compete for their victories. And the teams that lost Breck or Warroad at State shouldn't feel ashamed or embarassed. They lost to a couple of very good teams.

Not sure about the goalie pulling thing. I didn't see it. Did they pull their goalie on a delayed penalty call or were they just pulling their goalie to rub it in against Alexandria? If the latter, that is really too bad that the coach would do that.

Finally, how can their coach not get any game time for their backup goalie? Seriously. Not trying to rip the coach, but how can that be? Does she really exist? How bad is she if she can't play more than 60 minutes in a season where they outscored their opponents 202 to 15?? Is she really that bad or does the coach feel that much pressure to win and win big?

hockeyfan21 wrote:I've been hammering warroad and teams like them for years now so don't take this as an excuse.

I'm pretty sure that the girls don't get to choose when to pull their goalie. The coach is an obvious louse, but I don't think we should be attacking the girls about this. If your coach puts you on the ice and tells you to keep trying to score you are going to.

I'm not sure how the community of Warroad can be anything except embarrassed about this. I sued to have a formula for rooting for the state tournament.

Anyone over a private school
Northern schools over city schools
small schools over big schools

I've added
Anyone over Warroad.

P.S.
I don't dislike Warroad because they are good. I'm rooting for Roseville in AA tonight. Pretty sure Brodt wouldn't pull that crap in any game, let alone the state tournament. Any coach who pulls their goalie up 9-0 deserves his/her pink slip.

Your points in bold do bring up a bias that can be quite destructive to high school level sports. The League was getting too many complaints about athletic transfer abuse, so they put in a no-transfer rule (on the boys side anyway that I'm aware of). Irregardless of what anyone thinks of privates, the new transfer rule must be objective. It cannot favor anyone despite what has happened in the past. It is but to make a fair playing ground for everyone. It cannot favor "northerns," "public," or "small" schools. The two tournaments should be based on school attendance size. (Yes, the "A" tournament has its own bias towards smalls, but it still has the objective of attendance limits in place.) If they want to opt-up, they can. But one cannot say privates must opt-up when other successful programs like the Warroad boys never did. You cannot stop a kid with public origins from wanting to attend a private school. What you can stop is the abuse of the Anders Lee's who play for one championship team (St. Thomas), and then a couple years later you see him with Edina contending for another. But that's about it. Kids need to make their minds up by the time they're going to be freshman. What is also destructive is those who would sacrifice the opportunity of others (private attendees) in order to make their idealized public upbringings - yes, is another form of disadvantage. Same with re-alignment of sections. Maybe they can be re-aligned in some subtle way towards making sections more competitive, but geograph is already in place. What certainly cannot enter in all of this is emotion.

Fair Play wrote:If you can't take the heat don't read the message board. No one is making you go to your computer and hit the link that pops up the message board. You better log out now if you can't take any more.

These are the same girls that were charged with trespassing during Christmas in Roseau as they were stealing lawn decorations. Yes, they are juveniles so we won't say any names but they were Warroad Varsity girl hockey players. Nothing is sacred with them. During the summer they parade down the street on the fourth of July with their Coach and have signs that cut down the Roseau girls team.

So how can you say they are good. IF they win the Tourney they will have their piece of metal to bring home but no respect. No respect because these girls are not role models. Girls hockey needs players that inspire and want the younger girls to sign up and play with their friends. If numbers are down in their youth teams there is something wrong... With all the drama and controversy that just does not stop who wants to be part of that association? Last year they cried when they took second place, most players would be proud to have a second place trophy. Get the picture.

What is so degrading about writing 3peat? If they find that offensive they shouldn't make anti-warroad cupcakes and post pictures of them online. Maybe you just don't understand the type of rivalry warroad and roseau has. And if crying when you get second is bad then the olympics women team is bad too. Besides at least warroad made it that far and if crying for getting second at state is bad then crying for getting second at sections *cough*roseau*cough* is a definite no-no.L

What "problem(s)" are we trying to solve?

A) Blowout state games?

B) Current two-class format doesn't get best teams all in one (top) tourney (AA)?

C) Top A teams (public or private) exist that could compete at top of AA level?

D) Private school small class participation when small enrollment doesn't equate to hockey talent level?

E) All of the above?

F) Other?

And to the original point of this thread............how do you beat Warroad? I guess no one will figure it out this year. Congrats to Warroad in their win over Breck. With most of their top talent back next year maybe they will step up and play the big girls?

perspective wrote:I think it's great that Warroad is such a strong team, but it is unfortunate that they are in the Class A tourney. They are definitely one of the best teams in the state and that is a credit to their hard work and skill. It is a shame that, because they are a Class A team, they won't be able to call themselves the "Best" team in the state. However, that is the nature of the two class system. They don't need to apologize for that, but I'm sure it would definitely be more satisfying for the girls if they, or Breck for that matter, were playing against teams of their own caliber and having to compete for their victories. And the teams that lost Breck or Warroad at State shouldn't feel ashamed or embarassed. They lost to a couple of very good teams.

Not sure about the goalie pulling thing. I didn't see it. Did they pull their goalie on a delayed penalty call or were they just pulling their goalie to rub it in against Alexandria? If the latter, that is really too bad that the coach would do that.

Finally, how can their coach not get any game time for their backup goalie? Seriously. Not trying to rip the coach, but how can that be? Does she really exist? How bad is she if she can't play more than 60 minutes in a season where they outscored their opponents 202 to 15?? Is she really that bad or does the coach feel that much pressure to win and win big?

First, I want to say congratulations to the Warriors on their first state title. Now to address their class issue. I think it was important for them to stay in class A this season because they still had something to prove. They had not won the big hardware. However, now they have and they return almost all of their best players except for Brook Storey. I believe they should move up to class AA and show what they can do there. However, I do not think that every dominant class A team should opt up because it takes credibility away from class A as a whole. Its always good to have the top A teams be able to compete with the top AA teams. Even when the dominant A teams don't win, it then gives whoever won the state title even more credibility because they had to beat a program that was rich in tradition. When all the good teams opt up its a drain on the talent.

On to coach Marvin. Is he the classiest guy? It would seem not. He has that reputation already. I do not disagree with the decision to pull the goalie, though. This was in all reality a two team tourny between Warroad and Breck. Because of the lack of competition for Warroad until the championship I think they needed to do whatever they could to stay sharp until that game and that includes doing whatever you would do if you wee playing Breck.

warriors41 wrote:

perspective wrote:I think it's great that Warroad is such a strong team, but it is unfortunate that they are in the Class A tourney. They are definitely one of the best teams in the state and that is a credit to their hard work and skill. It is a shame that, because they are a Class A team, they won't be able to call themselves the "Best" team in the state. However, that is the nature of the two class system. They don't need to apologize for that, but I'm sure it would definitely be more satisfying for the girls if they, or Breck for that matter, were playing against teams of their own caliber and having to compete for their victories. And the teams that lost Breck or Warroad at State shouldn't feel ashamed or embarassed. They lost to a couple of very good teams.

Not sure about the goalie pulling thing. I didn't see it. Did they pull their goalie on a delayed penalty call or were they just pulling their goalie to rub it in against Alexandria? If the latter, that is really too bad that the coach would do that.

Finally, how can their coach not get any game time for their backup goalie? Seriously. Not trying to rip the coach, but how can that be? Does she really exist? How bad is she if she can't play more than 60 minutes in a season where they outscored their opponents 202 to 15?? Is she really that bad or does the coach feel that much pressure to win and win big?

First, I want to say congratulations to the Warriors on their first state title. Now to address their class issue. I think it was important for them to stay in class A this season because they still had something to prove. They had not won the big hardware. However, now they have and they return almost all of their best players except for Brook Storey. I believe they should move up to class AA and show what they can do there. However, I do not think that every dominant class A team should opt up because it takes credibility away from class A as a whole. Its always good to have the top A teams be able to compete with the top AA teams. Even when the dominant A teams don't win, it then gives whoever won the state title even more credibility because they had to beat a program that was rich in tradition. When all the good teams opt up its a drain on the talent.

On to coach Marvin. Is he the classiest guy? It would seem not. He has that reputation already. I do not disagree with the decision to pull the goalie, though. This was in all reality a two team tourny between Warroad and Breck. Because of the lack of competition for Warroad until the championship I think they needed to do whatever they could to stay sharp until that game and that includes doing whatever you would do if you wee playing Breck.

Ya right, lets just run up the score on a team that we have already proven we can handle (Alexandria). Maybe Warroad should play the winner of tonights AA game then we would all know who is the best of the best!

Pit Hockey wrote:

warriors41 wrote:

perspective wrote:I think it's great that Warroad is such a strong team, but it is unfortunate that they are in the Class A tourney. They are definitely one of the best teams in the state and that is a credit to their hard work and skill. It is a shame that, because they are a Class A team, they won't be able to call themselves the "Best" team in the state. However, that is the nature of the two class system. They don't need to apologize for that, but I'm sure it would definitely be more satisfying for the girls if they, or Breck for that matter, were playing against teams of their own caliber and having to compete for their victories. And the teams that lost Breck or Warroad at State shouldn't feel ashamed or embarassed. They lost to a couple of very good teams.

Not sure about the goalie pulling thing. I didn't see it. Did they pull their goalie on a delayed penalty call or were they just pulling their goalie to rub it in against Alexandria? If the latter, that is really too bad that the coach would do that.

Finally, how can their coach not get any game time for their backup goalie? Seriously. Not trying to rip the coach, but how can that be? Does she really exist? How bad is she if she can't play more than 60 minutes in a season where they outscored their opponents 202 to 15?? Is she really that bad or does the coach feel that much pressure to win and win big?

First, I want to say congratulations to the Warriors on their first state title. Now to address their class issue. I think it was important for them to stay in class A this season because they still had something to prove. They had not won the big hardware. However, now they have and they return almost all of their best players except for Brook Storey. I believe they should move up to class AA and show what they can do there. However, I do not think that every dominant class A team should opt up because it takes credibility away from class A as a whole. Its always good to have the top A teams be able to compete with the top AA teams. Even when the dominant A teams don't win, it then gives whoever won the state title even more credibility because they had to beat a program that was rich in tradition. When all the good teams opt up its a drain on the talent.

On to coach Marvin. Is he the classiest guy? It would seem not. He has that reputation already. I do not disagree with the decision to pull the goalie, though. This was in all reality a two team tourny between Warroad and Breck. Because of the lack of competition for Warroad until the championship I think they needed to do whatever they could to stay sharp until that game and that includes doing whatever you would do if you wee playing Breck.

Ya right, lets just run up the score on a team that we have already proven we can handle (Alexandria). Maybe Warroad should play the winner of tonights AA game then we would all know who is the best of the best!

Like I said above, I would live to see them move up for next season.

Don't get your hopes up. The process to opt up is only available in years when they adjust sections(every other year).

Next year is not one of them, so barring a Warroad Co-op that would put them over the class size limit they will be playing in Class A again.

As stated before, one problem for any small school including Privates (in the current economy), with opting up is it's a 4 year commitment that has to be made in certain years.

The bottom line is hockey is about teaching our kids life lessons, one important one is Life isn't Fair!

allhoc11 wrote:Don't get your hopes up. The process to opt up is only available in years when they adjust sections(every other year).

Next year is not one of them, so barring a Warroad Co-op that would put them over the class size limit they will be playing in Class A again.

As stated before, one problem for any small school including Privates (in the current economy), with opting up is it's a 4 year commitment that has to be made in certain years.

The bottom line is hockey is about teaching our kids life lessons, one important one is Life isn't Fair!

Great point, well said

Pit Hockey wrote:

allhoc11 wrote:Don't get your hopes up. The process to opt up is only available in years when they adjust sections(every other year).

Next year is not one of them, so barring a Warroad Co-op that would put them over the class size limit they will be playing in Class A again.

As stated before, one problem for any small school including Privates (in the current economy), with opting up is it's a 4 year commitment that has to be made in certain years.

The bottom line is hockey is about teaching our kids life lessons, one important one is Life isn't Fair!

Great point, well said

That's a shame they can't move up, even though I doubt they would. This particular group of girls has nothing left to prove in class A.

[img]

hockeyfan21 wrote:Have them play in AA instead of collecting meaningless trophies... (see St. Thomas boys program as well)

This isn't a knock on class A, it's a knock on teams that have talent playing in a lower division so they can rack up an insane record and stats.

Warroad is a joke until they play with the big schools where they belong

"where they belong"?? really?? why would that make warroad a joke for playing in the single A tourney? they have the smallest school enrollment out of any team at the state tourney... are they good enough to play AA? yeah but at the same time why don't you stop picking on high school girls teams?? haven't most of you graduated like 10 years ago??

perspective wrote:Not sure about the goalie pulling thing. I didn't see it. Did they pull their goalie on a delayed penalty call or were they just pulling their goalie to rub it in against Alexandria? If the latter, that is really too bad that the coach would do that.

Finally, how can their coach not get any game time for their backup goalie? Seriously. Not trying to rip the coach, but how can that be? Does she really exist? How bad is she if she can't play more than 60 minutes in a season where they outscored their opponents 202 to 15?? Is she really that bad or does the coach feel that much pressure to win and win big?

they pulled their goalie on a delayed penalty call... any team would have done it too... actually they could have just let Alex touch the puck and have an even longer 5-3

their backup goalie is really new.. well not to hockey but to goalie.. she switched to goalie last season her coach probably didn't want to throw her out for 5 mins every now and then

Warroad vs AA

11/20/2009 7:00 PM vs. Minnetonka T 3-3 F/OT 1-0-1
11/21/2009 2:30 PM at Holy Angels W 11-0 F 2-0-1
12/04/2009 7:30 PM vs. Hill-Murray W 3-0 F 4-0-1
12/05/2009 2:00 PM vs. Edina L 3-2 F 4-1-1
12/22/2009 7:30 PM at Roseau W 2-1 F 8-1-1
12/31/2009 5:00 PM vs. Eastview (South St. Paul) W 10-1 F 9-1-1
01/02/2010 7:15 PM vs. Minnetonka W 5-0 F 11-1-1
01/19/2010 7:30 PM vs. Roseau W 5-0 F 17-1-1

And about the back-up goalie, I am sure "Wazzy" could have gave her a start against these sure wins against any of these teams! But thats the way he is!

01/09/2010 6:30 PM vs. SilverB/Two H/Cook Cty W 16-0 F 13-1-1
01/12/2010 7:30 PM at Lake of the Woods W 15-0 F 14-1-1
01/15/2010 8:00 PM at Superior W 13-0 F 15-1

Cornbread wrote:Warroad vs AA

11/20/2009 7:00 PM vs. Minnetonka T 3-3 F/OT 1-0-1
11/21/2009 2:30 PM at Holy Angels W 11-0 F 2-0-1
12/04/2009 7:30 PM vs. Hill-Murray W 3-0 F 4-0-1
12/05/2009 2:00 PM vs. Edina L 3-2 F 4-1-1
12/22/2009 7:30 PM at Roseau W 2-1 F 8-1-1
12/31/2009 5:00 PM vs. Eastview (South St. Paul) W 10-1 F 9-1-1
01/02/2010 7:15 PM vs. Minnetonka W 5-0 F 11-1-1
01/19/2010 7:30 PM vs. Roseau W 5-0 F 17-1-1

And about the back-up goalie, I am sure "Wazzy" could have gave her a start against these sure wins against any of these teams! But thats the way he is!

01/09/2010 6:30 PM vs. SilverB/Two H/Cook Cty W 16-0 F 13-1-1
01/12/2010 7:30 PM at Lake of the Woods W 15-0 F 14-1-1
01/15/2010 8:00 PM at Superior W 13-0 F 15-1

Warroad's backup goalie, McBride, did start the game against LOW.

warriors41 wrote:

Cornbread wrote:Warroad vs AA

11/20/2009 7:00 PM vs. Minnetonka T 3-3 F/OT 1-0-1
11/21/2009 2:30 PM at Holy Angels W 11-0 F 2-0-1
12/04/2009 7:30 PM vs. Hill-Murray W 3-0 F 4-0-1
12/05/2009 2:00 PM vs. Edina L 3-2 F 4-1-1
12/22/2009 7:30 PM at Roseau W 2-1 F 8-1-1
12/31/2009 5:00 PM vs. Eastview (South St. Paul) W 10-1 F 9-1-1
01/02/2010 7:15 PM vs. Minnetonka W 5-0 F 11-1-1
01/19/2010 7:30 PM vs. Roseau W 5-0 F 17-1-1

And about the back-up goalie, I am sure "Wazzy" could have gave her a start against these sure wins against any of these teams! But thats the way he is!

01/09/2010 6:30 PM vs. SilverB/Two H/Cook Cty W 16-0 F 13-1-1
01/12/2010 7:30 PM at Lake of the Woods W 15-0 F 14-1-1
01/15/2010 8:00 PM at Superior W 13-0 F 15-1

Warroad's backup goalie, McBride, did start the game against LOW.

So did she finish it?

How about the other games against LOW and these other cup cakes? I am sure he could have played her the whole game with no problems.

Cornbread wrote:

warriors41 wrote:

Cornbread wrote:Warroad vs AA

11/20/2009 7:00 PM vs. Minnetonka T 3-3 F/OT 1-0-1
11/21/2009 2:30 PM at Holy Angels W 11-0 F 2-0-1
12/04/2009 7:30 PM vs. Hill-Murray W 3-0 F 4-0-1
12/05/2009 2:00 PM vs. Edina L 3-2 F 4-1-1
12/22/2009 7:30 PM at Roseau W 2-1 F 8-1-1
12/31/2009 5:00 PM vs. Eastview (South St. Paul) W 10-1 F 9-1-1
01/02/2010 7:15 PM vs. Minnetonka W 5-0 F 11-1-1
01/19/2010 7:30 PM vs. Roseau W 5-0 F 17-1-1

And about the back-up goalie, I am sure "Wazzy" could have gave her a start against these sure wins against any of these teams! But thats the way he is!

01/09/2010 6:30 PM vs. SilverB/Two H/Cook Cty W 16-0 F 13-1-1
01/12/2010 7:30 PM at Lake of the Woods W 15-0 F 14-1-1
01/15/2010 8:00 PM at Superior W 13-0 F 15-1

Warroad's backup goalie, McBride, did start the game against LOW.

So did she finish it?

How about the other games against LOW and these other cup cakes? I am sure he could have played her the whole game with no problems.

Yes, she played all 51 minutes. I'm not sure if she played any other games. I just know about that one

perspective wrote:I think it's great that Warroad is such a strong team, but it is unfortunate that they are in the Class A tourney. They are definitely one of the best teams in the state and that is a credit to their hard work and skill. It is a shame that, because they are a Class A team, they won't be able to call themselves the "Best" team in the state. However, that is the nature of the two class system. They don't need to apologize for that, but I'm sure it would definitely be more satisfying for the girls if they, or Breck for that matter, were playing against teams of their own caliber and having to compete for their victories. And the teams that lost Breck or Warroad at State shouldn't feel ashamed or embarassed. They lost to a couple of very good teams.

Not sure about the goalie pulling thing. I didn't see it. Did they pull their goalie on a delayed penalty call or were they just pulling their goalie to rub it in against Alexandria? If the latter, that is really too bad that the coach would do that.

Finally, how can their coach not get any game time for their backup goalie? Seriously. Not trying to rip the coach, but how can that be? Does she really exist? How bad is she if she can't play more than 60 minutes in a season where they outscored their opponents 202 to 15?? Is she really that bad or does the coach feel that much pressure to win and win big?

First off, it was a 5-3 and there was a delayed penalty, so in natural instinct the goalie took off for the bench. It was not an intentional pulling of the goalie like everyone is claiming. Second, the backup goalie for Warroad is a senior that is playing between the pipes for the first time in her life this season in order for the JV to have a goaltender.

ghshockeyfan wrote:What "problem(s)" are we trying to solve?

A) Blowout state games?

B) Current two-class format doesn't get best teams all in one (top) tourney (AA)?

C) Top A teams (public or private) exist that could compete at top of AA level?

D) Private school small class participation when small enrollment doesn't equate to hockey talent level?

E) All of the above?

F) Other?

I'm not sure who this is directed towards, but how does one implement restrictions on "recruiting" in high school? My problem throughout the debate amongst transferring/recruiting is that even though this seems to stem from private schools more often than not, certainly a new rule can focus only on any school which partakes in the practice. I don't understand how some seem to say that privates should be banned and/or given their own tournament while ignoring the possibility that some public schools are doing the same thing. I'm not seeing any real practical way of implementing such a rule without moving into legal issues.

hockeyislife33 wrote:

perspective wrote:Not sure about the goalie pulling thing. I didn't see it. Did they pull their goalie on a delayed penalty call or were they just pulling their goalie to rub it in against Alexandria? If the latter, that is really too bad that the coach would do that.

Finally, how can their coach not get any game time for their backup goalie? Seriously. Not trying to rip the coach, but how can that be? Does she really exist? How bad is she if she can't play more than 60 minutes in a season where they outscored their opponents 202 to 15?? Is she really that bad or does the coach feel that much pressure to win and win big?

they pulled their goalie on a delayed penalty call... any team would have done it too... actually they could have just let Alex touch the puck and have an even longer 5-3

their backup goalie is really new.. well not to hockey but to goalie.. she switched to goalie last season her coach probably didn't want to throw her out for 5 mins every now and then

Correct, she is a senior and playing goalie for the first time in her left this season. She is a great kid and made the move in order for the JV squad to have a goaltender.

mn miracle man wrote:

perspective wrote:I think it's great that Warroad is such a strong team, but it is unfortunate that they are in the Class A tourney. They are definitely one of the best teams in the state and that is a credit to their hard work and skill. It is a shame that, because they are a Class A team, they won't be able to call themselves the "Best" team in the state. However, that is the nature of the two class system. They don't need to apologize for that, but I'm sure it would definitely be more satisfying for the girls if they, or Breck for that matter, were playing against teams of their own caliber and having to compete for their victories. And the teams that lost Breck or Warroad at State shouldn't feel ashamed or embarassed. They lost to a couple of very good teams.

Not sure about the goalie pulling thing. I didn't see it. Did they pull their goalie on a delayed penalty call or were they just pulling their goalie to rub it in against Alexandria? If the latter, that is really too bad that the coach would do that.

Finally, how can their coach not get any game time for their backup goalie? Seriously. Not trying to rip the coach, but how can that be? Does she really exist? How bad is she if she can't play more than 60 minutes in a season where they outscored their opponents 202 to 15?? Is she really that bad or does the coach feel that much pressure to win and win big?

First off, it was a 5-3 and there was a delayed penalty, so in natural instinct the goalie took off for the bench. It was not an intentional pulling of the goalie like everyone is claiming. Second, the backup goalie for Warroad is a senior that is playing between the pipes for the first time in her life this season in order for the JV to have a goaltender.

Correct. I think it is more instinct For Amsley-Benzey. Even during the championship game she skated off during a delayed penalty call that was actually against Warroad. It could have been a huge mistake but luckily for Warroad it didnt't cost them a goal.