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Why don't the whiners give the kids who made it some credit for making the National camp. Just because your pet favorites did not make the list you have to rant on about it. How about a simple congrats to the kids who made the respective levels and just leave it at that. Seriously it is not worth getting overly upset about the process here and the kids who move on. There is plenty of opportunity for kids to improve and it starts in the off season in the gym and the driveway.

BoDangles11 wrote:The 17s are missing some of the best players which is surprising

OK...you got me..who are the best players?

WOW, no Metro East All Stars? Lechner must have something else planned for the kids during that time span.

For me a few of the best at 16 that didn't make the camp are,

Halverson and Aspinwall were the best two D and Stepan was one of the top 5 forwards.

Also 9 players from Red, they went 3-0
5 players from White, they went 1-2
4 players from Blue, which appeared to be the loaded favorite with the most players that attended last year's national camp, they went 0-3

Any bearing? Was how they finished, maybe how they played as a team, part of the decision process?

All very interesting. 3 D from White yet I feel they missed the best D on that team. I thought I was the best scout there but maybe not. The kids they named are obviously all very good players. Seems like they missed a few but you never know the reasons.

Someone discounted the importance of the National Camp but they're wrong. The best players from the rest of the country will be there.

I also like the idea of some fresh faces as they squeezed what they could out of the last year's group so why not bring in another group and see who percolates to the top of the new group. I doubt there's validity to that suspicion but they have (who is they anyways?) already seen the others.

Stepan was robbed for what I saw.[just sundays games]

I have to agree with the above posts regading the questionability of the 17's selection. ... and I don't have a dog in this hunt. I am glad someone else started this as I am sure alot of folks are sure thinking it except for the most stalwart supporters of MN Hockey... Except for a good many of the D and 2-3 forwards I am really scratching my head. I think the fact that only 1 from the 16's forward list last year made the 17 list is an indication of just how questionable the advanced program process really is..

I happened to be in town and did see a few games. I have to say I was VERY surprised by the selection from one of the teams. I would not have put the kid in the top half of the team. MN Hockey should just drop the Advanced program and focus on the Elite league like the scouts do.

Oldtimer... calm down.... this Board is about opinions and no one is singling out any kid. Any kid on this list deserves a congratulations without question but don't discredit yourself by telling kids to "go back to work and get better"... Many of the best kids by any reasonable benchmark (season performance, 16 selection and performance in the FInal 54's) didn't make the list and just about EVERYONE KNOWS IT. I have no doubt that all the kids in the Final 54 work hard all season.

Night Train wrote:For me a few of the best at 16 that didn't make the camp are,

Halverson and Aspinwall were the best two D and Stepan was one of the top 5 forwards.

Also 9 players from Red, they went 3-0
5 players from White, they went 1-2
4 players from Blue, which appeared to be the loaded favorite with the most players that attended last year's national camp, they went 0-3

Any bearing? Was how they finished, maybe how they played as a team, part of the decision process?

All very interesting. 3 D from White yet I feel they missed the best D on that team. I thought I was the best scout there but maybe not. The kids they named are obviously all very good players. Seems like they missed a few but you never know the reasons.

Someone discounted the importance of the National Camp but they're wrong. The best players from the rest of the country will be there.

I also like the idea of some fresh faces as they squeezed what they could out of the last year's group so why not bring in another group and see who percolates to the top of the new group. I doubt there's validity to that suspicion but they have (who is they anyways?) already seen the others.

Halverson wasn't close on anyones list. Aspinwall was a surprise.

Factsmatter1 wrote:I have to agree with the above posts regading the questionability of the 17's selection. ... and I don't have a dog in this hunt. I am glad someone else started this as I am sure alot of folks are sure thinking it except for the most stalwart supporters of MN Hockey... Except for a good many of the D and 2-3 forwards I am really scratching my head. I think the fact that only 1 from the 16's forward list last year made the 17 list is an indication of just how questionable the advanced program process really is..

I happened to be in town and did see a few games. I have to say I was VERY surprised by the selection from one of the teams. I would not have put the kid in the top half of the team. MN Hockey should just drop the Advanced program and focus on the Elite league like the scouts do.

Oldtimer... calm down.... this Board is about opinions and no one is singling out any kid. Any kid on this list deserves a congratulations without question but don't discredit yourself by telling kids to "go back to work and get better"... Many of the best kids by any reasonable benchmark (season performance, 16 selection and performance in the FInal 54's) didn't make the list and just about EVERYONE KNOWS IT. I have no doubt that all the kids in the Final 54 work hard all season.

Give me a f*&^%ing break. Is your real name Russo? The elite league selections at the fringe are as much of a joke as Minnesota Hockey. They both get the top 50% right and thats just how it is.

flatontheice wrote:

Factsmatter1 wrote:I have to agree with the above posts regading the questionability of the 17's selection. ... and I don't have a dog in this hunt. I am glad someone else started this as I am sure alot of folks are sure thinking it except for the most stalwart supporters of MN Hockey... Except for a good many of the D and 2-3 forwards I am really scratching my head. I think the fact that only 1 from the 16's forward list last year made the 17 list is an indication of just how questionable the advanced program process really is..

I happened to be in town and did see a few games. I have to say I was VERY surprised by the selection from one of the teams. I would not have put the kid in the top half of the team. MN Hockey should just drop the Advanced program and focus on the Elite league like the scouts do.

Oldtimer... calm down.... this Board is about opinions and no one is singling out any kid. Any kid on this list deserves a congratulations without question but don't discredit yourself by telling kids to "go back to work and get better"... Many of the best kids by any reasonable benchmark (season performance, 16 selection and performance in the FInal 54's) didn't make the list and just about EVERYONE KNOWS IT. I have no doubt that all the kids in the Final 54 work hard all season.

Give me a f*&^%ing break. Is your real name Russo? The elite league selections at the fringe are as much of a joke as Minnesota Hockey. They both get the top 50% right and thats just how it is.

Flat, we are in violent agreement and that was a joke in case you missed it. My only point is that the Elite league gets about 50% right as you state and I think this 17 team is about 25% right...

Factsmatter1 wrote:

flatontheice wrote:

Factsmatter1 wrote:I have to agree with the above posts regading the questionability of the 17's selection. ... and I don't have a dog in this hunt. I am glad someone else started this as I am sure alot of folks are sure thinking it except for the most stalwart supporters of MN Hockey... Except for a good many of the D and 2-3 forwards I am really scratching my head. I think the fact that only 1 from the 16's forward list last year made the 17 list is an indication of just how questionable the advanced program process really is..

I happened to be in town and did see a few games. I have to say I was VERY surprised by the selection from one of the teams. I would not have put the kid in the top half of the team. MN Hockey should just drop the Advanced program and focus on the Elite league like the scouts do.

Oldtimer... calm down.... this Board is about opinions and no one is singling out any kid. Any kid on this list deserves a congratulations without question but don't discredit yourself by telling kids to "go back to work and get better"... Many of the best kids by any reasonable benchmark (season performance, 16 selection and performance in the FInal 54's) didn't make the list and just about EVERYONE KNOWS IT. I have no doubt that all the kids in the Final 54 work hard all season.

Give me a f*&^%ing break. Is your real name Russo? The elite league selections at the fringe are as much of a joke as Minnesota Hockey. They both get the top 50% right and thats just how it is.

Flat, we are in violent agreement and that was a joke in case you missed it. My only point is that the Elite league gets about 50% right as you state and I think this 17 team is about 25% right...

Gotcha...my bad

BodyShots wrote:WOW, no Metro East All Stars? Lechner must have something else planned for the kids during that time span.

Actually there is one. Guentzel is at H-M

The people that select the teams are in a lose-lose situation.

If the usual suspects get the invites, you will get several posts complaining about politics and selection based on name. If some different players are selected, you will get several posts complaining about how players were missed.

OnFrozenPond,

Shouldn't matter. If the best hockey players were chosen to represent Minnesota hockey (the way it's supposed to be), then at least these evaluators could justify their decisions. But by opening it up to some average players just to make them feel good (or let them experience it)... makes the whole process a joke, incredibly frustrating and allows for mistrust and ridicule.

No question... choose the best kids and no justification needed.

12345 wrote:OnFrozenPond,

Shouldn't matter. If the best hockey players were chosen to represent Minnesota hockey (the way it's supposed to be), then at least these evaluators could justify their decisions. But by opening it up to some average players just to make them feel good (or let them experience it)... makes the whole process a joke, incredibly frustrating and allows for mistrust and ridicule.

No question... choose the best kids and no justification needed.

Therein lies the sticky wicket... the "best hockey players" in the eyes of one person (or group of people in this case) may not be the "best players" in the eyes of another person (or group). There is always going to be some discrepancy. For the most part, Minnesota Hockey does a pretty good job of widdling it down to one team or so.

On another note, there will be more than the kids that are listed going to Rochester for Nationals... guarantee it.

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pioneers wrote:I wonder why 18 players on the 16's squad and only 14 on the 17's?

Don't the national camps get smaller as you get older? I know Minnesota doesn't send 14s, so there are more spots nationally. Also, I thought there were fewer invited at the older years.

PoniesDad45 wrote:I don't agree with these offseason "advanced" teams at all. I think they produce kids who don't want to pass the puck and think the team is all about THEM instead of the TEAM.

Sorry, that's MHO.

I think Minnesota would be producing more top prospects if they scrapped these advanced teams and let the kids focus on their hometown teams.

While you may not agree with them, Select camps for 14-17 are a big part of USA Hockey's plan to identify and develop the top players. Yes, things are different in Minnesota. Because the rest of the nation does not have the same hockey density, being able to gather the top players for a week under USA Hockey's watch is critical to the process of identify players for the NTDP. Like it or not, recent results indicate that the NTDP is working.

I'm not sure how Minnesota could develop more top prospects by not allowing a dozen or so kids per birthyear to go to the national camp. Cripes, it is just one week of your life. Two if you count the tryout at state level. Care to explain?

Kinda hard to "focus on your hometown team" in the summer. We didn't have national Select camps when I played, and I certainly wouldn't have been invited to attend any. Still, I don't see a problem with them and am surprised you do. Shouldn't a teenage boy in Minnesota wonder how they compare to the best players from Texas, California, Michigan, New York, and Massachusetts?

I like your take.

Mind if I use it?

Minnesota: The State of Hockey Density

I don't agree with these offseason "advanced" teams at all. I think they produce kids who don't want to pass the puck and think the team is all about THEM instead of the TEAM.

Sorry, that's MHO.

I think Minnesota would be producing more top prospects if they scrapped these advanced teams and let the kids focus on their hometown teams.

This sport is not about the individual, it's about the TEAM.

PoniesDad45, while I do not agree with your East Ridge predictions (:lol:) I do agree that your comments have merit for sure. Just look at the Gophers in order to validate your comments as one very credible example.

northwoods oldtimer wrote:

I don't agree with these offseason "advanced" teams at all. I think they produce kids who don't want to pass the puck and think the team is all about THEM instead of the TEAM.

Sorry, that's MHO.

I think Minnesota would be producing more top prospects if they scrapped these advanced teams and let the kids focus on their hometown teams.

This sport is not about the individual, it's about the TEAM.

PoniesDad45, while I do not agree with your East Ridge predictions (:lol:) I do agree that your comments have merit for sure. Just look at the Gophers in order to validate your comments as one very credible example.

I don't follow....care to expand on that?

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PoniesDad45 wrote:

O-townClown wrote:

PoniesDad45 wrote:I don't agree with these offseason "advanced" teams at all. I think they produce kids who don't want to pass the puck and think the team is all about THEM instead of the TEAM.

Sorry, that's MHO.

I think Minnesota would be producing more top prospects if they scrapped these advanced teams and let the kids focus on their hometown teams.

While you may not agree with them, Select camps for 14-17 are a big part of USA Hockey's plan to identify and develop the top players. Yes, things are different in Minnesota. Because the rest of the nation does not have the same hockey density, being able to gather the top players for a week under USA Hockey's watch is critical to the process of identify players for the NTDP. Like it or not, recent results indicate that the NTDP is working.

I'm not sure how Minnesota could develop more top prospects by not allowing a dozen or so kids per birthyear to go to the national camp. Cripes, it is just one week of your life. Two if you count the tryout at state level. Care to explain?

Kinda hard to "focus on your hometown team" in the summer. We didn't have national Select camps when I played, and I certainly wouldn't have been invited to attend any. Still, I don't see a problem with them and am surprised you do. Shouldn't a teenage boy in Minnesota wonder how they compare to the best players from Texas, California, Michigan, New York, and Massachusetts?

I don't like individual awards or advantages given to certain players because of what they accomplished on their team. I think we are sending the wrong messages to these kids.

Why not send the entire State Tournament winning A Bantam team to compete at the national level? Why pick and choose kids here and there?

Why not send the AA HS Hockey Champion team to play all star teams to those states. We should be sending TEAMS, not individuals.

And I HATE the Mr Hockey award. Who the hell came up with that garbage?

That ain't hockey. These individual awards baloney is for Hollywood Oscars night.

You and I would probably agree on a lot of things, but this aint one of them. America loves the hero. It's just the way we are. We wouldn't watch if there weren't a Sydney, Alex, Tiger, Brett, etc. and it's been that way forever: Babe, Bart, Lou, Bobby, etc. Your's is like the Communist version of hockey. It won't work here.

Some change in emphasis IS in order, but I don't think it's these tournaments and competitions that are the problem. It's the ethic and vision within some individual programs at the association and HS levels that need work.

Fix that. If you don't like the other, don't participate. But it's never going to go away.

I don't follow....care to expand on that?

It is all "I" and no team over there for them there Rodents. Most certainly not the type of hockey you and I grew up watching. Oh yes and by the way the "showcasing" of talent that is awarded at the advanced program is laughable. It is a team game guys and you all know that.

Doglover wrote:

BoDangles11 wrote:The 17s are missing some of the best players which is surprising

Congratulations to the players that made the National Camp but this is the overwhelming comment I've heard since the list came out. I guess MN Hockey wanted to give some other players some exposure and I've actually heard quite a few of the top 17's are relieved not to have to spend the week in Rochester - initial disappointment until after they saw the list.

We're fortunate to have the Elite League in the Fall to eliminate the need for these expensive trips. I wonder if we'll see more kids opt out of the Select Program after MN Hockey posted results like these. Seems to be an overwhelming common thread in the conversations I've heard. Maybe attend the National Camps that are here in MN but skip the distant ones and save the $$ since the best players aren't even there.

What a bunch of BS!