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Another example: Eddie Wittchow is good enough to be scouted by colleges and DRAFTED BY THE NHL, but he's not good enough to play in the 'Elite' fall hockey league?

The Burnsville defenseman was picked in the sixth round (154th selection overall) by the Florida Panthers June 25 at the Xcel Energy Center in St. Paul.

http://scoreboardmn.ourvarsity.com/scho ... hp?ID=3988
http://www.startribune.com/sports/preps/123969414.html

Guess his high school coach didn't call the Director of the Elite League and demand that Wittchow deserved an automatic spot, as is apparently the practice for most players in the league.

There is nothing elite about this league and until they make structural changes in how players are selected they should be held in no more high an esteem as any other fall hockey league.

If that is true, one begins to think system might be flawed. Like many tryouts a number of players are promised spots in advance.

MN93 wrote:Another example: Eddie Wittchow is good enough to be scouted by colleges and DRAFTED BY THE NHL, but he's not good enough to play in the 'Elite' fall hockey league?

The Burnsville defenseman was picked in the sixth round (154th selection overall) by the Florida Panthers June 25 at the Xcel Energy Center in St. Paul.

http://scoreboardmn.ourvarsity.com/scho ... hp?ID=3988
http://www.startribune.com/sports/preps/123969414.html

Guess his high school coach didn't call the Director of the Elite League and demand that Wittchow deserved an automatic spot, as is apparently the practice for most players in the league.

There is nothing elite about this league and until they make structural changes in how players are selected they should be held in no more high an esteem as any other fall hockey league.

My guess is that he'll be playing for Waterloo in the USHL.

Wittchow graduated so I think that is a safe bet.

So now we can condemn an entire league based on the exclusion of one player? No doubt Eddie belonged in the league last year but do you really think there were a whole bunch more like him? Like I said before...most of the kids that should be there are.....they have made mistakes in the past and will in the future.

keepyourheadup wrote:So now we can condemn an entire league based on the exclusion of one player? No doubt Eddie belonged in the league last year but do you really think there were a whole bunch more like him? Like I said before...most of the kids that should be there are.....they have made mistakes in the past and will in the future.

No, I think the point is that many seem to notice a fair number of mistakes made every year, highlighted by some glaring ones (the Burnsville Defenseman). The league sets a high bar for itself by calling itself "Elite" and by having a very behind closed doors selection process, followed by a poorly run "tryout process". It's fair for people to be annoyed and frustrated with the league. It's good hockey for sure, but I don't think it's all it's made out to be.

Any good organizations that wish to have long term success should strive for process improvement but that takes proper checks and balance to achieve and the ability to handle feedback, evaluate and take measures to improve. The Elite league has evolved to the point where this is necessary to do in order to continue to strive for continued improvement and success. As an organization you want to remain innovative, not become stale and dictatorial like USA hockey has done. All that regression leads to alienating the members that you serve. Smart organizations can handle criticism and in fact welcome feedback in order to become better. I would hate to see Elite league go the way of USA hockey but fear that it could potentially go in that direction and grow unaccountable. Self serving organization are not about providing opportunity to those they serve. I would hope that the Elite program can see that and take measures to provide needed change when necessary. To the Elite leagues credit I do think that many who serve in that capacity have taken steps to get out and evaluate kids on a broad spectrum of high school games, advanced competition and spring combines. I would hope the program is open to feedback. As an example, much could be done to improve the Elite Development program to further integrate that league.

I agree the league could have come up with a better name, the term "elite" is irritating enough on its own. I still feel strongly that with a few exceptions the top kids are all there, its on the bottom half of these rosters where it really becomes difficult to determine who's in and who's not. The flawed tryout process just makes the situation worse. I still believe that very few top end kids get overlooked each year. The process does need to improve and hopefully it will but regardless of how the selections are made rest assured someone won't be happy.

keepyourheadup wrote:I agree the league could have come up with a better name, the term "elite" is irritating enough on its own. I still feel strongly that with a few exceptions the top kids are all there, its on the bottom half of these rosters where it really becomes difficult to determine who's in and who's not. The flawed tryout process just makes the situation worse. I still believe that very few top end kids get overlooked each year. The process does need to improve and hopefully it will but regardless of how the selections are made rest assured someone won't be happy.

2008-2009 Midwest High School Elite League

Rosters from a few years back.




Team North
G 12 Matt Cooper Duluth East
G 11 Matt Hemingway Alexandria
D 12 Joe Arbour Duluth East
D 11 Garrett Orhn Greenway
D 11 Nate Schmidt St. Cloud Cathedral
D 11 Derek Forbort Duluth East
D 12 Izaak Berglund Little Falls
D 12 Sam Rendle Grand Rapids
D 11 Jake Williams Duluth East
F 12 Aaron Jamnick Hibbing
F 12 Ben Hanowski Little Falls
F 12 Zach Mausolf Duluth Marshall
F 12 Max Tardy Duluth East
F 12 Cody Hotchkin Duluth Denfeld
F 12 Jace Baldwin International Falls
F 10 Garrett Hendrickson Virginia
F 12 Bill Simon Lakeville South
F 12 Casey Eckman Two Harbors
F 12 Chris Westin Virginia
F 12 Charlie Hexum Rochester Lourdes
F 11 Joncarlo Westerlund Lake of the Woods
F 11 Jesse Nemgar Bemidji

Team Great Plains
G 11 Zane Gothberg Thief River Falls
G 12 Tyler Lindberg Jamestown
D 12 Grant Narveson Fargo South
D 12 Ian Cochran Moorhead
D 12 Ryan Hills Grafton
D 12 Luke Cieklinski Grand Forks Central
D 11 Kevin Mc Morrow Park Rapids
D 11 Danny Ray Grand Forks Central
D 11 Nick Romanick Bismarck
F 12 Michael Pieper Warroad
F 12 Tyler Landman Roseau
F 12 Nick Oliver Roseau
F 12 Chad Demers Grafton
F 11 Adam Knochenmus Roseau
F 11 Jake Useldinger East Grand Forks
F 12 Alex Gaustad Grafton
F 12 Russel Crary Grand Forks Red River
F 12 Cody Boyle Grafton
F 12 Jordan Bancroft Grand Forks Red River
F 11 Braden Rahman Moorhead
F 12 Alex Altenbernd Moorhead
F 12 Lucas Dillon Thief River Falls

Team Southwest
G 11 Alex Fons Hopkins
G 11 Jacob Meyers Benilde-St. Margaret’s
D 11 Nick Leddy Eden Prairie
D 12 Brendan Baker Edina
D 11 Andrew Prochno Minnetonka
D 12 Mike Nagel Totino-Grace
D 11 Troy Hesketh Minnetonka
F 12 Marshall Everson Edina
F 11 Max Gardiner Minnetonka
F 12 Sam Coatta Minnetonka
F 12 Anders Lee Edina
F 12 Connor Gaarder Edina
F 11 Connor Reilly Holy Angels
F 11 Archie Skalbeck Hopkins
F 11 Mike Erickson Eden Prairie
F 12 Zach Budish Edina
F 12 Riley Horgan Mound
F 12 Danny Mattson Holy Angels
F 12 Joe McQuillan Eden Prairie
F 11 Ryan Reilly Holy Angels

Team Northwest
G 12 Michael Webb Holy Angels
G 11 Matt Ray Andover
D 12 Wally Cossette Maple Grove
D 12 Patrick Borer Benilde-St. Margaret’s
D 12 Tom Fallen Armstrong
D 12 Patrick Regan Edina
D 12 Jared Maetche St. Cloud Tech
D 11 James Hanson Osseo
D 11 Andrew Pitts North Metro
F 12 Joe Rehkamp Breck
F 11 Chad Hennum Elk River
F 12 Zac Frischmon Blaine
F 10 Nick Bjugstad Blaine
F 12 Berkley Scott Anoka
F 12 Ben Persian Orono
F 11 Cal Decowski Andover
F 12 Mark Turak Chaska
F 12 Cole Meyer Buffalo
F 11 Charlie Taft Edina
F 12 Ryan McArdle Bloomington Kennedy
F 11 Brett Patterson Benilde-St. Margaret’s
F 12 Bryan Glynn Benilde-St. Margaret’s

Team Northeast
G 11 Jim Kruger Minnetonka
G 12 Steve Loyd Eden Prairie
D 11 Jordan Johnson Hill-Murray
D 12 Joe Schmitz Centennial
D 11 Mark Alt Cretin Derham Hall
D 10 Ben Marshall Mahtomedi
D 11 Charlie Aus Centennial
D 11 Brett Stern Centennial
D 11 Tony Larson Blaine
F 11 Jordan Lovick Centennial
F 12 Tyler Zepeda Hill-Murray
F 12 Danny DeLisle Totino-Grace
F 12 Willie Hess Centennial
F 12 Tyler Pitlick Centennial
F 12 Isaac Kohls Hill-Murray
F 11 Cory Ellis St. Paul Johnson
F 12 Monte French Hill-Murray
F 12 Jeff Westerhaus Hill-Murray
F 12 Mychal Bangs Cretin Derham Hall
F 12 Michael Friedman Eastview
F 11 Tyler Dietzler Bloominton Jefferson
F 12 Nick Widing Hill-Murray

Team Southeast
G 12 Tyler Bruggeman Mankato West
G 12 Willie Paul Duluth Marshall
D 11 Chris Casto Hill-Murray
D 12 Zach Palmquist South St. Paul
D 11 Joe Faust Bloomington Jefferson
D 12 Pete Spratte Roch. Lourdes
D 11 Walker Hyland Woodbury
D 12 Tim LaBombard Bloomington Jefferson
F 12 Blake Shammel Red Wing
F 11 Caleb Herbert Bloomington Jefferson
F 12 Tyler Voigt Rochester Lourdes
F 12 Tommy Zimmerman Cretin Derham Hall
F 11 Zach May Burnsville
F 10 Christian Isackson St. Thomas
F 10 Joseph LaBate Holy Angels
F 12 Cole Peterson Roch. Lourdes
F 12 John Haeg Holy Angels
F 12 Schyler Adams New Prague
F 11 Justin Crandall St. Thomas
F 11 Max Gaede Woodbury
F 12 Taylor Funk Rochester Lourdes

Alternates
G 11 Dan Harper-nw Blaine
G 11 Matt Arentz-se Lakeville North
G 11 Mike Hart-n International Falls
D 12 David Burdick-gp Fargo South
D 12 Drew Vechell-n Hibbing
D 12 Jon Manke-nw Champlin Park
D 12 David Audette-nw Rogers
D 11 Jeffrey Pauluk-sw Bloomington Jefferson
D 12 Al McLean-ne Duluth East
F 11 Kevin Erickson-gp Roseau
F 12 Ryan Mohagen-gp Grafton
F 12 Grant Huttel-n Hermantown
F 12 Cole Warner-se Apple Valley
F 11 Chris Fischer-se Apple Valley
F 11 Tanner Lane-gp Detroit Lakes

Clearly they miss kids every year but half of these kids are not even playing hockey anymore so they certainly shouldn't miss the ones that are and get drafted by the NHL.

I don't think anyone can explain why the player in question did not make it last year...plain and simple they blew it...my point is that he is the exception, not the rule. This year you have a kid with 70 points in the south suburban conference and a leading scorer in last years development league on the side line and a kid with six points included..I have no idea how that can happen, but try to find even two or three more no brainers out there that didn't get selected. In my opinion they should take a look at the kids that get automatic placements if they were in the league last year, some deserve it, some likely don't. The league needs to shore up their credibility but its still better than having no league at all.

keepyourheadup wrote:I don't think anyone can explain why the player in question did not make it last year...plain and simple they blew it...my point is that he is the exception, not the rule. This year you have a kid with 70 points in the south suburban conference and a leading scorer in last years development league on the side line and a kid with six points included..I have no idea how that can happen, but try to find even two or three more no brainers out there that didn't get selected. In my opinion they should take a look at the kids that get automatic placements if they were in the league last year, some deserve it, some likely don't. The league needs to shore up their credibility but its still better than having no league at all.

I agree that having the league is better than not and I think they get most of the players right. Like I said earlier, I just wish that they would treat the process of team selection with a little bit more importance because it is a good league and critical to many players and their families.

The real shame for the league with the Burnsville kid from last year wasn't just that he didn't make a team in the league, he wasn't even given an opportunity to tryout...that's not just a miss, that's a huge miss.

Yep, like I said they just blew it, Schulze from HM also got stiffed. It seems with a little oversight these errors should be correctable. As it turns out both Eddie and Kevin will get the chance to prove themselves at the next level.....this alone should make the league take a closer look at how they pick their teams.

keepyourheadup wrote:Yep, like I said they just blew it, Schulze from HM also got stiffed. It seems with a little oversight these errors should be correctable. As it turns out both Eddie and Kevin will get the chance to prove themselves at the next level.....this alone should make the league take a closer look at how they pick their teams.

Yes, there have been a few glaring screwups that make us all wonder, especially when combined with a shoddy tryout experience. They are real issues that deserve to be talked about and I believe the league should do something to address. Complicating the whole thing, is the overblown mystique surrounding the league and the constant rumors of backroom politics.

And, yes, they get "most of them right". But I'd bet that many on this BBS, acting alone, could get "most of them right". I contend that a full 25% (probably more) at the "bottom" of the league are interchangable with kids who don't make it. There are just too many variables that aren't discernable by talking to a few self-proclaimed experts and watching three pond hockey games.

"Elite", whatever. I don't think there is any group of coaches/scouts out there that is that good at picking the future stars. We should all stop assuming that they are or that this is the definitive league.

jackstraw wrote:If you are a forward anywhere geographically close to SE or SW, only 2 forwards taken out of tryout, very sad. Unless of course you can transfer to BSM!

LOL. Now that's funny.

northwoods oldtimer wrote:

Consider limiting the number of players who have never played a shift of H.S. hockey from making teams. It seems like the players who make an elite team as a sophomore are the ones most likely to leave the MSHSL before their senior year. The purpose of the league is to retain players in H.S. hockey. They also recently added the 'Development' league for younger players so there is less need to put them on Elite teams. Obviously there are some that you simply must take based on their tryout here or performance at Select 16 or 17 camps but the emphasis should be on providing an outlet for seniors to get noticed.

S&D very well stated. The younger kids SHOULD go to Elite D league. A newbie from bantam does not need to play in this league at all.

The Elite league is a HUGE deal for kids and their parents. The creators of the league have done a great job of making sure people know how much getting into their league can help you get seen at a higher level. On a regular basis they have articles talking about how many of their players got drafted by the NHL, recruited by a D1 school or picked up by the USHL league. The Hockey Hub has given them a prominent spot on their site as well as the LPH magazine giving them special exposure that no other league gets. There is no question that their games are well attended by scouts and it can really add to a players chances to get noticed.

The league administrators should go out of their way to treat the team selection process with the respect and thoughtfulness that it deserves given how important making this league can be to a player and his family.

Your assessment is absolutely correct! Great comments Seek & Destroy

What is this ELITE 'D' tryouts? My son was invited to try out for this down in Mankato this weekend. Is this another deal where the team is already picked or there are minimal spots availiable?? Don't want to get his hopes up and throw money at it.

urban iceman wrote:

northwoods oldtimer wrote:

Consider limiting the number of players who have never played a shift of H.S. hockey from making teams. It seems like the players who make an elite team as a sophomore are the ones most likely to leave the MSHSL before their senior year. The purpose of the league is to retain players in H.S. hockey. They also recently added the 'Development' league for younger players so there is less need to put them on Elite teams. Obviously there are some that you simply must take based on their tryout here or performance at Select 16 or 17 camps but the emphasis should be on providing an outlet for seniors to get noticed.

S&D very well stated. The younger kids SHOULD go to Elite D league. A newbie from bantam does not need to play in this league at all.

The Elite league is a HUGE deal for kids and their parents. The creators of the league have done a great job of making sure people know how much getting into their league can help you get seen at a higher level. On a regular basis they have articles talking about how many of their players got drafted by the NHL, recruited by a D1 school or picked up by the USHL league. The Hockey Hub has given them a prominent spot on their site as well as the LPH magazine giving them special exposure that no other league gets. There is no question that their games are well attended by scouts and it can really add to a players chances to get noticed.

The league administrators should go out of their way to treat the team selection process with the respect and thoughtfulness that it deserves given how important making this league can be to a player and his family.

Your assessment is absolutely correct! Great comments Seek & Destroy

What is this ELITE 'D' tryouts? My son was invited to try out for this down in Mankato this weekend. Is this another deal where the team is already picked or there are minimal spots availiable?? Don't want to get his hopes up and throw money at it.

To my knowledge, underclassmen that tried out for the Elite league but didin't make it were offered spots in Elite D. Otherwise everyone else tries out.

urban iceman wrote:

northwoods oldtimer wrote:

Consider limiting the number of players who have never played a shift of H.S. hockey from making teams. It seems like the players who make an elite team as a sophomore are the ones most likely to leave the MSHSL before their senior year. The purpose of the league is to retain players in H.S. hockey. They also recently added the 'Development' league for younger players so there is less need to put them on Elite teams. Obviously there are some that you simply must take based on their tryout here or performance at Select 16 or 17 camps but the emphasis should be on providing an outlet for seniors to get noticed.

S&D very well stated. The younger kids SHOULD go to Elite D league. A newbie from bantam does not need to play in this league at all.

The Elite league is a HUGE deal for kids and their parents. The creators of the league have done a great job of making sure people know how much getting into their league can help you get seen at a higher level. On a regular basis they have articles talking about how many of their players got drafted by the NHL, recruited by a D1 school or picked up by the USHL league. The Hockey Hub has given them a prominent spot on their site as well as the LPH magazine giving them special exposure that no other league gets. There is no question that their games are well attended by scouts and it can really add to a players chances to get noticed.

The league administrators should go out of their way to treat the team selection process with the respect and thoughtfulness that it deserves given how important making this league can be to a player and his family.

Your assessment is absolutely correct! Great comments Seek & Destroy

What is this ELITE 'D' tryouts? My son was invited to try out for this down in Mankato this weekend. Is this another deal where the team is already picked or there are minimal spots availiable?? Don't want to get his hopes up and throw money at it.

My understanding is that the Elite D league is much more open to players with very few pre-selected (basically only the non-seniors who tryed out and didn't make Elite). First, the tryout is only $65 which is very reasonable. At that rate, even if you only end up with a good 'practice' session for H.S. tryouts, it's not a bad deal. I have also heard that they are not quite as political in their choices, primarily because the league is more of a preparatory league for the H.S. season then a 'well scouted' league.

If your kid wants a chance to play some competitive hockey before the H.S. season against teams from other areas of Minnesota do the tryout and see what happens.

its minnesota hockey theres plenty of politics. might be a different kind of politics though

I just now noticed that there are 4 kids that are playing in the Elite League that played bantams last year. I'm not saying those kids aren't elite hockey players or anything like that, but to put them in the Elite League is completely ludicrous. What an embarrassment for the league.

Somebody please do me a favor and track these kids... I would love to know if they are still playing high school hockey by the time they are seniors. If they aren't, the Elite League is directly responsible for promoting them to the next level vs. keeping them home (which is what the league is designed for).

Puke.

nickel slots wrote:I just now noticed that there are 4 kids that are playing in the Elite League that played bantams last year. I'm not saying those kids aren't elite hockey players or anything like that, but to put them in the Elite League is completely ludicrous. What an embarrassment for the league.

Somebody please do me a favor and track these kids... I would love to know if they are still playing high school hockey by the time they are seniors. If they aren't, the Elite League is directly responsible for promoting them to the next level vs. keeping them home (which is what the league is designed for).

Puke.

Not saying it is right or wrong, but those bantams you spoke of all made the Select 16's final 54 (requirement to try out for Elite). Not bad hockey players, Snuggurud, Yon and Sheehy would have played varsity for most of the HS programs in the state but their programs are against it...

In this case ELITE is a self proclaimed title. Probably a little more "deserved" than all the other elite team titles out there, but none the less self proclaimed.

If Nick Seeler, Luc Gerdes, Ryan Bullock and Brady Riesgraf can play in the Elite D League their junior seasons then really no sophomores should be playing in the League. That's what the Elite D League, supposedly connected to the Elite League, is for. Even juniors that haven't put in a season at Elite D probably shouldn't be on an Elite League team based on the above mentioned players. Looking at the by school breakdown you can see there are some coaches doing some heavy, successful, lobbying.

observer wrote:If Nick Seeler, Luc Gerdes, Ryan Bullock and Brady Riesgraf can play in the Elite D League their junior seasons then really no sophomores should be playing in the League. That's what the Elite D League, supposedly connected to the Elite League, is for. Even juniors that haven't put in a season at Elite D probably shouldn't be on an Elite League team based on the above mentioned players. Looking at the by school breakdown you can see there are some coaches doing some heavy, successful, lobbying.

I agree. All the hype and attempts to identify the "elite" players as early as possible and then pretending that this league is better development for them is crazy. It's an exposure league and if they're really that good, they won't need the extra year or two here. The process neglects and discourages some really good journeyman type players who are more than capable of moving up.

The Southwest team, where players are made, not born, sure seemed to be average....