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blacklung wrote:HM 5
STA 2
Shots 30-22 HM

defense wrote:

blacklung wrote:HM 5
STA 2
Shots 30-22 HM

Shots on goal do not matter, remember ?

rainier wrote:

defense wrote:

blacklung wrote:HM 5
STA 2
Shots 30-22 HM

Shots on goal do not matter, remember ?

Yeah, but STA's ratio of goals was 2.5, wait, make that negative 2.5.

Sorry HSHW, I couldn't resist. I look forward to your next rankings.

Pioneerprideguy wrote:STA got swept by a young Pioneer team having a somewhat "down year" (unable to beat the top end AA teams). If STA is the best in Class A, then the gap between AA & A has gown significantly over the past few years. Give STA credit though, when people were calling for them to move to AA, they refused. It looks like it was the right call as they are where they belong.

HShockeywatcher wrote:

rainier wrote:

defense wrote: Shots on goal do not matter, remember ?

Yeah, but STA's ratio of goals was 2.5, wait, make that negative 2.5.

Sorry HSHW, I couldn't resist. I look forward to your next rankings.

There's nothing to resist, that's what I look at; HM scored 2 and a half times as much as STA did. The feed was terrible so stopped watching, so I can't comment on the game itself.

Assuming Hermantown wins Saturday, they will be #1 on Sunday. It is tough to say they should be because of their schedule, but no one else deserves it right now. The schedule Hermantown plays is still disappointing though; if their defense is as good as everyone says, they could allow 5 goals in their next 6 games and not have really proven much aside from that they can stop playing down to opponents.

pekyman wrote:

HShockeywatcher wrote:

rainier wrote: Yeah, but STA's ratio of goals was 2.5, wait, make that negative 2.5.

Sorry HSHW, I couldn't resist. I look forward to your next rankings.

There's nothing to resist, that's what I look at; HM scored 2 and a half times as much as STA did. The feed was terrible so stopped watching, so I can't comment on the game itself.

Assuming Hermantown wins Saturday, they will be #1 on Sunday. It is tough to say they should be because of their schedule, but no one else deserves it right now. The schedule Hermantown plays is still disappointing though; if their defense is as good as everyone says, they could allow 5 goals in their next 6 games and not have really proven much aside from that they can stop playing down to opponents.

HSHW that is the best you can say about H-Town… You will put them at #1 because: “It is tough to say they should be because of their schedule, but no one else deserves it right now.”
They have met every challenge they have faced this year and have come out on top.
STA, while it schedule is tougher, has lost or won in OT to all the good teams.

St Thomas LOSS/OT Wins
STA – East 5-4 Loss
STA – Shattuck 4-2 Loss
STA – Edina 3-2 Loss
STA – HM 2-1 Loss
STA – HM 5-2 Loss
STA – Marshall 4-3 OT Win
STA – Breck 3-2 OT Win

Comparable games that Herm has played:
Herm - GR 5-2 Win
Herm – Marshall 5-1 Win
Plus 17 more Wins

Herm did much better in their common opponent Marshall, and in my opinion would have done much better in the other 5 losses and OT win over Breck than STA did.
I believe that Hermantown deserves to be #1 not because no one else does, but because they have earned it. It’s not too tough to say.
I guess you will find out what Hermantown is made of in March.

HShockeywatcher wrote:

pekyman wrote:

HShockeywatcher wrote: There's nothing to resist, that's what I look at; HM scored 2 and a half times as much as STA did. The feed was terrible so stopped watching, so I can't comment on the game itself.

Assuming Hermantown wins Saturday, they will be #1 on Sunday. It is tough to say they should be because of their schedule, but no one else deserves it right now. The schedule Hermantown plays is still disappointing though; if their defense is as good as everyone says, they could allow 5 goals in their next 6 games and not have really proven much aside from that they can stop playing down to opponents.

HSHW that is the best you can say about H-Town… You will put them at #1 because: “It is tough to say they should be because of their schedule, but no one else deserves it right now.”
They have met every challenge they have faced this year and have come out on top.
STA, while it schedule is tougher, has lost or won in OT to all the good teams.

St Thomas LOSS/OT Wins
STA – East 5-4 Loss
STA – Shattuck 4-2 Loss
STA – Edina 3-2 Loss
STA – HM 2-1 Loss
STA – HM 5-2 Loss
STA – Marshall 4-3 OT Win
STA – Breck 3-2 OT Win

Comparable games that Herm has played:
Herm - GR 5-2 Win
Herm – Marshall 5-1 Win
Plus 17 more Wins

Herm did much better in their common opponent Marshall, and in my opinion would have done much better in the other 5 losses and OT win over Breck than STA did.
I believe that Hermantown deserves to be #1 not because no one else does, but because they have earned it. It’s not too tough to say.
I guess you will find out what Hermantown is made of in March.

Seriously? Every week I am told I am loony for not having Hermantown #1 and given reason after reason why they should be the top team without responses to my comments about them. Now, I say they will be #1 and there's more complaining? Wow

What continues to crack me up is reading this stuff is things like "plus 17 more wins." How you win against the other 17 teams matters when comparing teams with little in common on their schedules. The close/come from behind games they've had are continuously ignored.

I have never said they are not the best team in the state, simply that it is hard to tell, which it still is. In fact, almost weekly I make compliments about them and say they may be the top team.

DKS1962 wrote:Hermntown truely deserves to be ranked #1.
Who is the best A team in the state ?

Keep up the debate. Extremely entertaining.
March is not that far away.

pekyman wrote:

DKS1962 wrote:Hermntown truely deserves to be ranked #1.
Who is the best A team in the state ?

Keep up the debate. Extremely entertaining.
March is not that far away.

You got that right.
I think Rainier should get the
"Most Extremely Entertaining Poster of the Season" award for his "inconsistency police" postings.
I think even HSHW had to laugh at those!

pekyman wrote: HSHW, I have never said that you are "looney"!
I am not going to go into the detail of the 17 other wins because:
1. I don't think it is necessary. I have been at most of their games and not one of the games did I think that Herm was not the significantly better team.
2. I think the GR and Marshall games, along with the STA losses and OT wins says all that is needed.
3. I never thought Herm deserved the #1 spot until after the GR game, or that they are the best team in the state.
4. In my opinion ,you go out of your way to justify keeping Herm down.
5. And, in my opinion, I don't think it is that "hard to tell".

As Rainier said, kudos for putting them at #1. Hopefully they can hold it.
If they slip, I expect you to be the first to point it out!

HShockeywatcher wrote:

pekyman wrote:

DKS1962 wrote:Hermntown truely deserves to be ranked #1.
Who is the best A team in the state ?

Keep up the debate. Extremely entertaining.
March is not that far away.

You got that right.
I think Rainier should get the
"Most Extremely Entertaining Poster of the Season" award for his "inconsistency police" postings.
I think even HSHW had to laugh at those!

I did laugh at them.

pekyman wrote: HSHW, I have never said that you are "looney"!
I am not going to go into the detail of the 17 other wins because:
1. I don't think it is necessary. I have been at most of their games and not one of the games did I think that Herm was not the significantly better team.
2. I think the GR and Marshall games, along with the STA losses and OT wins says all that is needed.
3. I never thought Herm deserved the #1 spot until after the GR game, or that they are the best team in the state.
4. In my opinion ,you go out of your way to justify keeping Herm down.
5. And, in my opinion, I don't think it is that "hard to tell".

As Rainier said, kudos for putting them at #1. Hopefully they can hold it.
If they slip, I expect you to be the first to point it out!

1. It's not about being the better team; it's about winning. Many games the better team loses. The better team lost in the first STA/HM match up, for example.

4. I go out of my way to explain why they were not #1 to try to avoid 25+ posts from the same handful of Hermantown faithful asking why...and they ask anyway and aren't satisfied with explanations.

5. The ONLY comparison we have thus far is a team that one of them played in their first game and the other played in their 11th, in which they both won. They are both undefeated against Class A teams and with Hermantown's schedule, I believe Breck and St Thomas would have the same record the Hawks do.

Anyway, I look forward to the rematch at state.

MHGr8ness wrote:I'm not a fan of privates... I'll say that right away and I do admire Hermantown, though I am not from there, nor do I have any ties. However, I think everyone needs to lay off Watcher. He's likely to give Htown the top sport now, which I agree they deserve and even more than that he's admitted that they very well could be number one throughout the season. One thing that I don't agree with that he factors in his rankings are the "come from behind" wins. A win is a win and it doesn't matter how it gets done, including the score (to some degreee). Another thing that EVERYONE makes a big deal of is saying someone outplayed someone else, despite losing. The only way you're outplayed is if you lose. You can control the puck in the other team's zone all night and take a million shots, but that's not how hockey works. You need more goals than the other team by the time the final buzzer sounds. At the end of the day, all that matters is who won on the scoreboard, not how they did it.

MHGr8ness wrote:I'm not a fan of privates... I'll say that right away and I do admire Hermantown, though I am not from there, nor do I have any ties. However, I think everyone needs to lay off Watcher. He's likely to give Htown the top sport now, which I agree they deserve and even more than that he's admitted that they very well could be number one throughout the season. One thing that I don't agree with that he factors in his rankings are the "come from behind" wins. A win is a win and it doesn't matter how it gets done, including the score (to some degreee). Another thing that EVERYONE makes a big deal of is saying someone outplayed someone else, despite losing. The only way you're outplayed is if you lose. You can control the puck in the other team's zone all night and take a million shots, but that's not how hockey works. You need more goals than the other team by the time the final buzzer sounds. At the end of the day, all that matters is who won on the scoreboard, not how they did it.

MHGr8ness wrote:I'm not a fan of privates... I'll say that right away and I do admire Hermantown, though I am not from there, nor do I have any ties. However, I think everyone needs to lay off Watcher. He's likely to give Htown the top sport now, which I agree they deserve and even more than that he's admitted that they very well could be number one throughout the season. One thing that I don't agree with that he factors in his rankings are the "come from behind" wins. A win is a win and it doesn't matter how it gets done, including the score (to some degreee). Another thing that EVERYONE makes a big deal of is saying someone outplayed someone else, despite losing. The only way you're outplayed is if you lose. You can control the puck in the other team's zone all night and take a million shots, but that's not how hockey works. You need more goals than the other team by the time the final buzzer sounds. At the end of the day, all that matters is who won on the scoreboard, not how they did it.

reaper wrote:What kind of mind feels compelled to follow the long-winded STA fan around the message board ripping his "inconsistencies"?

The kind of mind that likes to debate HS hockey rankings. HSHW likes to debate them too.

What kind of mind feels the need to battle wits it clearly feels are "inferior" by matching long-winded rants?

You are the only "inferior" one; oh, and your team.

Why not take apart some Duluth East fans?

Afraid of getting a bloodied nose, or are you just sucking up?

East has been #1 all season, deservedly so, and after their loss to Tonka, they fell to #2, also deservedly so. I could be like you and create crazy, unsubstantiated arguments out of thin air, but I prefer to stick to HS hockey topics.

Just curious.

I bet you're curious about a lot of things.

However, it seems by sticking with his private schools year after year,
HSHW has been been shown to be at least 3 times more likely than you to pick the eventual winner.

HSHW has said he is going with Hermantown at #1 next week. And picking a private school to win the Class A title is like shooting fish in a barrel-with a cannon.

What kind of mind spends so much time on a HS hockey message board without ever actually discussing HS hockey?

reaper wrote:What kind of mind feels compelled to follow the long-winded STA fan around the message board ripping his "inconsistencies"?

What kind of mind feels the need to battle wits it clearly feels are "inferior" by matching long-winded rants?

Why not take apart some Duluth East fans?

Afraid of getting a bloodied nose, or are you just sucking up?

Just curious.

However, it seems by sticking with his private schools year after year,

HSHW has been been shown to be at least 3 times more likely than you to pick the eventual winner.

rainier wrote:

reaper wrote:What kind of mind feels compelled to follow the long-winded STA fan around the message board ripping his "inconsistencies"?

The kind of mind that likes to debate HS hockey rankings. HSHW likes to debate them too.

What kind of mind feels the need to battle wits it clearly feels are "inferior" by matching long-winded rants?

You are the only "inferior" one; oh, and your team.

Why not take apart some Duluth East fans?

Afraid of getting a bloodied nose, or are you just sucking up?

East has been #1 all season, deservedly so, and after their loss to Tonka, they fell to #2, also deservedly so. I could be like you and create crazy, unsubstantiated arguments out of thin air, but I prefer to stick to HS hockey topics.

Just curious.

I bet you're curious about a lot of things.

However, it seems by sticking with his private schools year after year,
HSHW has been been shown to be at least 3 times more likely than you to pick the eventual winner.

HSHW has said he is going with Hermantown at #1 next week. And picking a private school to win the Class A title is like shooting fish in a barrel-with a cannon.

What kind of mind spends so much time on a HS hockey message board without ever actually discussing HS hockey?

rainier wrote:

MHGr8ness wrote:I'm not a fan of privates... I'll say that right away and I do admire Hermantown, though I am not from there, nor do I have any ties. However, I think everyone needs to lay off Watcher. He's likely to give Htown the top sport now, which I agree they deserve and even more than that he's admitted that they very well could be number one throughout the season. One thing that I don't agree with that he factors in his rankings are the "come from behind" wins. A win is a win and it doesn't matter how it gets done, including the score (to some degreee). Another thing that EVERYONE makes a big deal of is saying someone outplayed someone else, despite losing. The only way you're outplayed is if you lose. You can control the puck in the other team's zone all night and take a million shots, but that's not how hockey works. You need more goals than the other team by the time the final buzzer sounds. At the end of the day, all that matters is who won on the scoreboard, not how they did it.

You're correct, the scoreboard is all that matters in real life, but a HS hockey message board thread about rankings is not real life. Thanks to the miracle of the internet, we can now watch more games than ever, but still most of the information we get about games comes from box scores, and we use that info to make judgements about how good teams are.

Last night Rapids nipped I-Falls 4-3, shots were 36-18 Rapids. Now for the sake of argument, say I-Falls had won 4-3 and the shots were the same. Yes, in the real world, the fact that I-Falls won is all that matters. However, in a thread about rankings, I (and many others) would consider Rapids to have outplayed them and that it was just a hiccup for Rapids. Now if I-Falls had won 4-3 and the shots were even, I would drop Rapids in my opinion of the rankings much further because I would surmise the play was pretty even. Right or wrong, I think that's how many people formulate their rankings opinions.

Also, you tell us to lay off HSHW, but then two sentences later you rip him for his "come from behind" win angle. Practice what you preach my friend.

Once again, you are right, scoreboard is all that matters in real life. If STA beats Hermantown for the state title, no one in their right mind would argue Hermantown was still the better team. But these rankings are not real life, so if you drop the expectation that they should be, then you will have much more fun with them.

MHGr8ness wrote:The shots don't matter. Have you ever seen a game where a team won because they outshot the other team? It's like saying that one team is better than the other because number nine's sister on one team is cuter than the other number nine's sister. The ONLY stat that proves one team is better than another is the score, because that's what decides who wins and loses. Shots may indicate zone time, puck control, and scoring chances, but again you can't win a game off of any of that. I wanna know who scored more goals. That's the better team because that's how hockey is decided.

PuckRanger wrote:

MHGr8ness wrote:The shots don't matter. Have you ever seen a game where a team won because they outshot the other team? It's like saying that one team is better than the other because number nine's sister on one team is cuter than the other number nine's sister. The ONLY stat that proves one team is better than another is the score, because that's what decides who wins and loses. Shots may indicate zone time, puck control, and scoring chances, but again you can't win a game off of any of that. I wanna know who scored more goals. That's the better team because that's how hockey is decided.

Shots, scoring chances, and zone time all do matter. 95% of hockey games are won by the team that dominates these. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that these lead to scoring goals most of the time. A hot goalie (or a completely off goalie at the other end) is pretty much the only way the other team wins. Yes, the score is the ultimate indicator, but I challenge you to show me a team that controls those 3 aspects throughout the season that has more than a couple losses - and conversely show me a team that consistently gets drubbed in those categories that has more than a handful of wins.