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a major spear below the belt isn't just another penalty...

minnscout wrote:Grow up! There is not a better leader in high school hockey than jake horton.

don't claim to know whether or not that's true - don't know the kid... but he didn't show it with that penalty... just sayin...

Mite-dad wrote:

Govie wrote:

Mite-dad wrote:I don't condone what the BSM kid did, but I think the H-M kid totally dove and embellished it. And to be honest, I thought #16 for H-M was the biggest goon on the ice and should have been called for numerous shot to the head penalties.

More like best (clean) hitter on the ice. Him and Connor Sampair, #15. Even Lou Nanne (a guy I am sure is more schooled on the game than you) said they were literally all clean hits. This isn't a sport for someone who fights for the pink team, you know.

Surely you know that pee-wee hitting has just been outlawed in the state? Christ our America and Minnesota has gone completely soft, wussified.

I think ole Lou needs some glasses.

Obviously if you think he was laying "head shots" left and right YOU are the one who needs glasses.

The kid was a beast, plain and simple. One of the more fun players to watch during the entire tournament. In fact the entire Hill team and "style" were the most fun to watch during the tournament - physical, hard-nosed "old time hockey," at its best.

Hockey is not a sport for pansies; hockey is a tough sport for tough kids and players.

I suppose you think the check Scott Stevens laid on Lindros was also a dirty shot? Rule number one in hockey for your info is keep your head UP.

ihatethestlblues wrote:

minnscout wrote:Grow up! There is not a better leader in high school hockey than jake horton.

don't claim to know whether or not that's true - don't know the kid... but he didn't show it with that penalty... just sayin...

What he did yesterday was unfortunate and embarrassing but it does not reflect who he is as a player or as a person.

Jake Horton is not only a great leader who has captained both the soccer and hockey teams to state championships and really rallied the school after the Jablonski incident (he was the first to use #jabs on twitter), but also a great kid who does exceptionally well in the classroom.

He has been an exceptional Red Knight for his four years at BSM and he will be missed next season. He made a mistake in an emotionally charged environment and is living with the consequences. My guess is that no one feels worse about it than him right now.

Parents might feel worse. Gotta admit its a fairly embarrassing moment. All he can do is learn from it. Lets all move forward.

I don't think we should hang the kid for spearing but it was the correct call. He was losing his cool before the spear, threw a punch or two. Then a cheap shot.

Ejected. End of story.

Also correct to keep him off all tourney team. Otherwise, what's the message?

Next time play clean, and stripes won't eject you.

On Horton, reasonable people can disagree, but what the high school league did is at least defensible. Messages need to be sent about the conduct you are going to allow; this one might or might not be too harsh, but I can at least understand it.

As to the Jablonski thing there is no defense, and really no explanation other than blind adherence to rules no matter what the context. I understand why they have rules limiting who can be on the ice; it's to maintain security and prevent chaos. But it's really remarkable that no high school league official had the common sense, decency, and guts to say "forget the rule - when we wrote it we weren't thinking about a situation like this; let him out there." The people in charge of the postgame ceremony should be embarrassed.

xy wrote:On Horton, reasonable people can disagree, but what the high school league did is at least defensible. Messages need to be sent about the conduct you are going to allow; this one might or might not be too harsh, but I can at least understand it.

As to the Jablonski thing there is no defense, and really no explanation other than blind adherence to rules no matter what the context. I understand why they have rules limiting who can be on the ice; it's to maintain security and prevent chaos. But it's really remarkable that no high school league official had the common sense, decency, and guts to say "forget the rule - when we wrote it we weren't thinking about a situation like this; let him out there." The people in charge of the postgame ceremony should be embarrassed.

AMEN...Couldn't agree more...eveyone who was a the Section 6AA Final (when Jack came on the ice following the game)....was waiting for the same "common sense" ending at XCEL. So were most people in the crowd last night at XCEL. Following what seemed like a brief delay to get him on the ice following the game...they closed the ice level door and it never happened.

The MSHSL needs to wake up. To keep those 2 kids off the ice during the post game celebration was bush-league.

I guess the rules are more important than the kids. How dare the MSHSL to think the tournaments are for the kids and players! Too bad common sense isn't part of their rules!

Jack should have been allowed on the ice. Not #16. #16 should have been taught by his parents in his early Mites days that this is not the way one conducts oneself in a competitive environment. I only saw the championship game, but heard this was his behavior throughout the tournament.

xy wrote: As to the Jablonski thing there is no defense, and really no explanation other than blind adherence to rules no matter what the context. I understand why they have rules limiting who can be on the ice; it's to maintain security and prevent chaos. But it's really remarkable that no high school league official had the common sense, decency, and guts to say "forget the rule - when we wrote it we weren't thinking about a situation like this; let him out there." The people in charge of the postgame ceremony should be embarrassed.

Oh, I'm quite certain that those unfortunate souls will be very embarrassed when the movie comes out.

Im sure all the benilde/private haters all think that when the hill Murray ducked out of a hit behind the net and sent Horton flying over him, that that was just a sweet cool hip check, even though it's a suspendable play in the NHL?

6ix wrote:Im sure all the benilde/private haters all think that when the hill Murray ducked out of a hit behind the net and sent Horton flying over him, that that was just a sweet cool hip check, even though it's a suspendable play in the NHL?

Are you accusing him of clipping Horton?

Hmm...

PuckU126 wrote:

6ix wrote:Im sure all the benilde/private haters all think that when the hill Murray ducked out of a hit behind the net and sent Horton flying over him, that that was just a sweet cool hip check, even though it's a suspendable play in the NHL?

Are you accusing him of clipping Horton?

Hmm...

Yes that's what I thought I saw, I'm not saying I'm right and there's a chance I'm wrong. But I am going off what I thought I saw.
I missed the spearing

Being a former ref, I go with ejected means ejected- you can celebrate with your team after the event but you do not participate. I hate zero tolerance rules but in this case you say he is a good kid who made one mistake. Next time, a pretty good kid who made a couple mistakes and is a bit rough sometimes, and so on...
At HS and youth levels is where players learn respect for the rules as well as the game. The message can be diluted at higher levels but now it needs to be ingrained.

I still maintain if some of HM's hits were called in the first and BSM's interference also called early, the spear would never have happened. It is easiest for the ref's to establish a tone early then quietly relax and 'let the kids play' then let it all go then try and get control later.

as for not letting Jabs on the ice, I believe the term is Epic Fail

minnscout wrote:Sour grapes! The benilde players are great kids that play hard. Hockey is hockey. All of a sudden if Benilde does it, they are a bad program. Oh no they got a penalty, what a bunch of classless players. Come on, just cause they won state and will win again next year if all their guys come back doesnt mean you all have to be haters. Grow up! There is not a better leader in high school hockey than jake horton.

Minnscout- Dead on. BSM is a class program and deserved to win the state tournament.
Like I said. HM coach was out-coached. Plain and simple. No doubt he told the boys to go out and play physical. Game plan back fired! Best team won last night.
HM don't feel bad. Just think about the long bus ride back to Duluth for East. Did any Duluth teams do good this weekend?

Irish wrote:

minnscout wrote:Sour grapes! The benilde players are great kids that play hard. Hockey is hockey. All of a sudden if Benilde does it, they are a bad program. Oh no they got a penalty, what a bunch of classless players. Come on, just cause they won state and will win again next year if all their guys come back doesnt mean you all have to be haters. Grow up! There is not a better leader in high school hockey than jake horton.

Minnscout- Dead on. BSM is a class program and deserved to win the state tournament.
Like I said. HM coach was out-coached. Plain and simple. No doubt he told the boys to go out and play physical. Game plan back fired! Best team won last night.
HM don't feel bad. Just think about the long bus ride back to Duluth for East. Did any Duluth teams do good this weekend?

I'm not convinced HM's physicality backfired. BSM was 0-for-5 on the PP; the rough play didn't really hurt Hill, except maybe at the end when they took penalties during the major. What did hurt them was their power play: 1 for 7 (including a 5-minute major), with 3 SH goals against, is pretty brutal.

I think you can perhaps criticize their set-up on the PP; I've never been a huge fan of putting players out of their natural positions on the PP. Hill did that, with only one defenseman on their top unit (Heinrich) who pushed forward pretty often. With offensive-minded forwards as their last line of defense, they left themselves vulnerable to Besse.

karl(east) wrote:

Irish wrote:

minnscout wrote:Sour grapes! The benilde players are great kids that play hard. Hockey is hockey. All of a sudden if Benilde does it, they are a bad program. Oh no they got a penalty, what a bunch of classless players. Come on, just cause they won state and will win again next year if all their guys come back doesnt mean you all have to be haters. Grow up! There is not a better leader in high school hockey than jake horton.

Minnscout- Dead on. BSM is a class program and deserved to win the state tournament.
Like I said. HM coach was out-coached. Plain and simple. No doubt he told the boys to go out and play physical. Game plan back fired! Best team won last night.
HM don't feel bad. Just think about the long bus ride back to Duluth for East. Did any Duluth teams do good this weekend?

I'm not convinced HM's physicality backfired. BSM was 0-for-5 on the PP; the rough play didn't really hurt Hill, except maybe at the end when they took penalties during the major. What did hurt them was their power play: 1 for 7 (including a 5-minute major), with 3 SH goals against, is pretty brutal.

I think you can perhaps criticize their set-up on the PP; I've never been a huge fan of putting players out of their natural positions on the PP. Hill did that, with only one defenseman on their top unit (Heinrich) who pushed forward pretty often. With offensive-minded forwards as their last line of defense, they left themselves vulnerable to Besse.

They seemed to look away at quite a few shots they could have taken on the PP. I got the impression HM was waiting for bodies up front. I thought it made them overly strategic on the PP. Any thoughts?

Nostalgic Nerd wrote:

karl(east) wrote:

Irish wrote: Minnscout- Dead on. BSM is a class program and deserved to win the state tournament.
Like I said. HM coach was out-coached. Plain and simple. No doubt he told the boys to go out and play physical. Game plan back fired! Best team won last night.
HM don't feel bad. Just think about the long bus ride back to Duluth for East. Did any Duluth teams do good this weekend?

I'm not convinced HM's physicality backfired. BSM was 0-for-5 on the PP; the rough play didn't really hurt Hill, except maybe at the end when they took penalties during the major. What did hurt them was their power play: 1 for 7 (including a 5-minute major), with 3 SH goals against, is pretty brutal.

I think you can perhaps criticize their set-up on the PP; I've never been a huge fan of putting players out of their natural positions on the PP. Hill did that, with only one defenseman on their top unit (Heinrich) who pushed forward pretty often. With offensive-minded forwards as their last line of defense, they left themselves vulnerable to Besse.

They seemed to look away at quite a few shots they could have taken on the PP. I got the impression HM was waiting for bodies up front. I thought it made them overly strategic on the PP. Any thoughts?

I'd definitely agree. As Clay Matvick said in the elevator, "they just didn't shoot!" Benilde gave HM a few chances to make a game of it, but the Pioneers just never cashed in.

karl(east) wrote:

Nostalgic Nerd wrote:

karl(east) wrote: I'm not convinced HM's physicality backfired. BSM was 0-for-5 on the PP; the rough play didn't really hurt Hill, except maybe at the end when they took penalties during the major. What did hurt them was their power play: 1 for 7 (including a 5-minute major), with 3 SH goals against, is pretty brutal.

I think you can perhaps criticize their set-up on the PP; I've never been a huge fan of putting players out of their natural positions on the PP. Hill did that, with only one defenseman on their top unit (Heinrich) who pushed forward pretty often. With offensive-minded forwards as their last line of defense, they left themselves vulnerable to Besse.

They seemed to look away at quite a few shots they could have taken on the PP. I got the impression HM was waiting for bodies up front. I thought it made them overly strategic on the PP. Any thoughts?

I'd definitely agree. As Clay Matvick said in the elevator, "they just didn't shoot!" Benilde gave HM a few chances to make a game of it, but the Pioneers just never cashed in.

HM probably should have had around 35 shots for the game instead of 25.

Another thing I mentioned earlier that I found baffling was after Besse scored his first 2 goals their line had a faceoff in HM's end. They left Besse wide open in the center slot, and all I can remember thinking was what in the world were they doing? Nothing came of it because Hill won the faceoff, but it just didn't make any sense to me. It was obvious even then that he was their biggest threat, so it was perplexing.

Karl, so would you have kept the defensemen at the points on the PP?

karl(east) wrote:

Irish wrote:

minnscout wrote:Sour grapes! The benilde players are great kids that play hard. Hockey is hockey. All of a sudden if Benilde does it, they are a bad program. Oh no they got a penalty, what a bunch of classless players. Come on, just cause they won state and will win again next year if all their guys come back doesnt mean you all have to be haters. Grow up! There is not a better leader in high school hockey than jake horton.

Minnscout- Dead on. BSM is a class program and deserved to win the state tournament.
Like I said. HM coach was out-coached. Plain and simple. No doubt he told the boys to go out and play physical. Game plan back fired! Best team won last night.
HM don't feel bad. Just think about the long bus ride back to Duluth for East. Did any Duluth teams do good this weekend?

I'm not convinced HM's physicality backfired. BSM was 0-for-5 on the PP; the rough play didn't really hurt Hill, except maybe at the end when they took penalties during the major. What did hurt them was their power play: 1 for 7 (including a 5-minute major), with 3 SH goals against, is pretty brutal.

I think you can perhaps criticize their set-up on the PP; I've never been a huge fan of putting players out of their natural positions on the PP. Hill did that, with only one defenseman on their top unit (Heinrich) who pushed forward pretty often. With offensive-minded forwards as their last line of defense, they left themselves vulnerable to Besse.

When they interviewed the HM coach between periods he even said the boys arne't playing HM hockey. I have no doubt that he told the boys to play physical to slow down BSM.
Most of the game the stats were pretty even. After the first period the only two stats that jumped out at you was the 2-0 score and HM had more hits. After the second period hits were even and the score was lopsided. When it was all said and done it didn't matter what the stats looked like because the only stat that counted was the score.
If Horton doesn't spear HM player not sure what HM could complain about?

Did any of the HM Defenseman make the all tourney team with that poor effort? Keep in mind BSM had three shortys in the game. Ouch!

Now we can turn our focus on who will be the preseason #1 team?

Then we can ask each and every year when will some of these private schools man up and elect to play with the big boys?

Nostalgic Nerd wrote:Karl, so would you have kept the defensemen at the points on the PP?

Yes, though admittedly Hill was in a tough place there; they had a surplus of great forwards and only one real standout defenseman. It's easy to say this in hindsight, though this isn't the first time I've seen a high school team stick forwards at the points and watched them struggle defensively.

And this more or less answers Irish's question, too...it's hard to fault the H-M D-men for the shorthanded goals, because only one of them was on the ice for the PP, and he wasn't really even playing defense.

Heinrich was impressive all tourney and definitely deserved his spot on the all-tournament team. Becker from Hill also made it, though I did not vote for him. It wasn't easy to find four good D for the team this year.

What I didn't understand is why Horton speared the Hill Murray player in the first place. Benilde were winning by a nice margin. Why the frustration?