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HockeyTalk18 wrote:with only one HS varsity team it will be hard to tell if this will work, mainly due to you won't see a lot of them play Varsity, so maybe you'll see a great JV program or more Jr. Gold A teams among the top?. I've always wondered how they keep so many of their 4th and 5th liners when they most likely would be among the top players in some of the surrounding communities. It's interesting that movement from top players jumping schools, why do some of the lower players not jump so they can at least play HS Varsity?.

They also know that many of their elite players jump ship to Juniors before their senior year. Developing more midrange talent allows them to stay deep at the HS level when these guys defect. Ie, Bellows will I'm sure be gone next year.

Snap Happy wrote:Ie, Bellows will I'm sure be gone next year.

If he has somewhere to go.

old goalie85 wrote:Maybe it's because Edina has a great school system. School being more important than hockey to the parents.

There's lots of great school systems out there. Edina's hockey program has large numbers because it's great. And many of their great alumni bring their kids back. And that's not easy for me to say being from EP.

old goalie85 wrote:Maybe it's because Edina has a great school system. School being more important than hockey to the parents.

Do the squirt A teams get tiered like the rest of the Edina youth levels? Maybe you are watching/participating in what is actually the A-2 team??

And despite Edina being one of the best school systems in MN (public or private) Edina kids and parents (like any youth hockey players from any family or program with the talent/interest/money) have the same options:
1) choose to stay in the Edina school system for the historically great edication and athletic programs without the added expense of private school tuition and commute, 2) choose to leave for hockey reasons - playing time, pposition, coaching and development - or reasons unrelated to hockey - religion, legacy at the school, smaller classes, or alternate/unique academics and extracurriculars, or 3) choose to translate the success of Edina's youth programs and the amazing talent it can HELP develop for a particular child into an offer or "recruitment" when the privates come calling with their own promises. To promote the kid in hockey in a way perceived more favorable than staying at home, provide an academic environment tailored to the hockey player that will help get him/her into a top college (even or ESPECIALLY if it is not D1), and in more cases than we probably realize or admit, tuition money and maybe a lot of it. (Not called athletic scholarships but in part or large part based on hockey talent - though academic record and needs definitely factor in.)

You can argue Edina association kids move on to privates more prevalently due to talent, money, or geography. But IMHO the option is universal even if the capability and/or feasibility is far from.

@ InigoMontoya

I said, NOT all Edina people are hockey crazies. :). Every association has their "crazies" or "over the top passionate" parents. I do think all in all Edina gets a bad rap as a bunch of people thinking they are "entitled" to things. So not true! Most of Edina lives in 70's ramblers that they live in due to schools and proximity to downtown for parents. Sorry, I'm off subject. 😊. I have football, hockey, lacrosse, basketball and soccer players in my family. I have seen the wide array of bad behavior from parents and kids combined. I'm sorry but it all comes from the parents. The parents share their "passion" for sports and/or their hatred for certain associations. Now, I know there are differing opinions and I am welcome to them all. Everyone has the right to their own opinion. But I grew up in White Bear Lake and I'm saying, the "crazies" are everywhere. And everyone please- stop the hate. We are all just parents trying to raise decent human beings. The topic is one or two squirt A teams in Edina- well time will tell AND they are just squirts!

Passionforfuninsports wrote:@ InigoMontoya

I said, NOT all Edina people are hockey crazies. . Every association has their "crazies" or "over the top passionate" parents. I do think all in all Edina gets a bad rap as a bunch of people thinking they are "entitled" to things. So not true! Most of Edina lives in 70's ramblers that they live in due to schools and proximity to downtown for parents. Sorry, I'm off subject. . I have football, hockey, lacrosse, basketball and soccer players in my family. I have seen the wide array of bad behavior from parents and kids combined. I'm sorry but it all comes from the parents. The parents share their "passion" for sports and/or their hatred for certain associations. Now, I know there are differing opinions and I am welcome to them all. Everyone has the right to their own opinion. But I grew up in White Bear Lake and I'm saying, the "crazies" are everywhere. And everyone please- stop the hate. We are all just parents trying to raise decent human beings. The topic is one or two squirt A teams in Edina- well time will tell AND they are just squirts!

I prefer to be called "over the top passionate" thank you very much.

Yes, I completely took your quote out of context; that's part of what made it funny. I think the best jokes are the ones you have to explain.

Another thing that makes it funny is that you felt compelled to rationalize the craziness of the Edina folks and to project that craziness on other communities - See what I did there? I used psychology terms that layer more humor on top.

Obviously Edina isn't entirely crazy; if they were, it wouldn't be funny, it'd just be mean. Of course, there must be a little truth to it, or it wouldn't be funny at all.

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:Do the squirt A teams get tiered like the rest of the Edina youth levels? Maybe you are watching/participating in what is actually the A-2 team??

Squirt As are balanced, and from the looks of it, pretty even. Each has won 4-2 in the two meetings. Third meeting tonight in case anyone wants to go and witness what the choice dads see as bad coaching.

They can open enroll and walk 3 blocks to Minneapolis Southwest High School if they're feeling they need a little more playing time.

old goalie85 wrote:Maybe it's because Edina has a great school system. School being more important than hockey to the parents.

Yup. It it was all about sports, I would have my boys playing somewhere else.

SCBlueLiner wrote:

57special wrote:The Edina Squirt program as a whole is extremely healthy with 13 teams, up from 9 just a few years ago. They have made a conscious effort to have more teams at the A and B levels ( 2 and 6, as opposed to 1 and 4 in recent years)' resulting in slightly lesser results than in previous years. Time will tell whether the new approach is the right one. I do think it will result in some better goalies coming out Edina.

The old coach had a very talented core ( now on the PWAA team), but was a somewhat controversial guy. He was well known for shortening his bench. The new guys are good hockey people also, but have a diluted talent pool due to the two teams, and have made a commitment to playing all the players equally. I have zero doubt that if they went back to having one A team they would be one of, if not the, best teams in the State.

This thread has gone crazy now.

1st, most associations would kill to have those kinds of numbers at squirts. Edina folks should imagine the very real scenario some associations face, are we going to have enough kids to fill 3 teams? 2 teams? What level are they going to play? Can they compete? You guys are rolling out THIRTEEN freaking teams. Hell, you could probably field 3 or 4 A teams and still win better than 50% of your games. The 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 (Red, White, & Blue) model from USAH would put you at 4 A, 4 B, and 5 C.

"Time will tell whether the new approach is the right one." Umm, undoubtedly, yes, this is the right approach. Winning every game at squirts does not equal development. Challenging as many kids as possible to play a high level of hockey and developing their skills does. Actually every association in the state should be begging Edina to go back to 1 A team. Go ahead and dominate squirts, because with this structure come Bantams this group of kids is going to be talented and DEEP in the bench.

I actually agree with you, and have been pushing for more upper level teams for years now. One interesting thing that not many think about is that not only do monster associations have a larger amount of highly skilled kids, but also a larger amount of lesser skilled players. So the associations that are sticking with the old pyramid model( as Edina did in the past) of allocating teams within an age group are now kicking Edina's butt down on the C level, and the B level teams are far less dominant than they were in the past.

Again, it remains to be seen whether this will develop that small minority of uber talented players better than the old way. I think so. Before all the kids on the A team had to do was show up for 90% of their games. Now they have to battle for most of the games.

57special wrote:

SCBlueLiner wrote:

57special wrote:The Edina Squirt program as a whole is extremely healthy with 13 teams, up from 9 just a few years ago. They have made a conscious effort to have more teams at the A and B levels ( 2 and 6, as opposed to 1 and 4 in recent years)' resulting in slightly lesser results than in previous years. Time will tell whether the new approach is the right one. I do think it will result in some better goalies coming out Edina.

The old coach had a very talented core ( now on the PWAA team), but was a somewhat controversial guy. He was well known for shortening his bench. The new guys are good hockey people also, but have a diluted talent pool due to the two teams, and have made a commitment to playing all the players equally. I have zero doubt that if they went back to having one A team they would be one of, if not the, best teams in the State.

This thread has gone crazy now.

1st, most associations would kill to have those kinds of numbers at squirts. Edina folks should imagine the very real scenario some associations face, are we going to have enough kids to fill 3 teams? 2 teams? What level are they going to play? Can they compete? You guys are rolling out THIRTEEN freaking teams. Hell, you could probably field 3 or 4 A teams and still win better than 50% of your games. The 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 (Red, White, & Blue) model from USAH would put you at 4 A, 4 B, and 5 C.

"Time will tell whether the new approach is the right one." Umm, undoubtedly, yes, this is the right approach. Winning every game at squirts does not equal development. Challenging as many kids as possible to play a high level of hockey and developing their skills does. Actually every association in the state should be begging Edina to go back to 1 A team. Go ahead and dominate squirts, because with this structure come Bantams this group of kids is going to be talented and DEEP in the bench.

I actually agree with you, and have been pushing for more upper level teams for years now. One interesting thing that not many think about is that not only do monster associations have a larger amount of highly skilled kids, but also a larger amount of lesser skilled players. So the associations that are sticking with the old pyramid model( as Edina did) of allocating teams within an age group are now kicking Edina's butt down on the C level, and the B level teams are far less dominant than they were in the past.

Again, it remains to be seen whether this will develop that small minority of uber talented players better than the old way. I think so. Before all the kids on the A team had to do was show up for 90% of their games. Now they have to battle for most of the games.

The teams are drafted equally. Game last night ended in a 2-2 tie.

57special wrote: I actually agree with you, and have been pushing for more upper level teams for years now. One interesting thing that not many think about is that not only do monster associations have a larger amount of highly skilled kids, but also a larger amount of lesser skilled players. So the associations that are sticking with the old pyramid model( as Edina did in the past) of allocating teams within an age group are now kicking Edina's butt down on the C level, and the B level teams are far less dominant than they were in the past.

I'm not sure if you're saying just Squirts or all levels, but I'd say the Edina teams are doing more than fine at the B and C levels - below are their records this year:

Team.........Finished.....Record
BB1................1...........14-1-1
BB2 White.......1...........15-0-1
BB2 Green.......2...........13-3-0
BC White.........1...........14-0-1
BC Green........5.............6-7-3
PWB1 Green....1............14-1-1
PWB1 White.....2............11-3-2
PWB2 Gold.......1............13-1-2
PWB2 Green.....2...........13-2-1
PWB2 White......1...........11-3-2
PWB2 Black......2...........12-3-1
PWC White........2...........11-1-4
PWC Black........3...........11-2-3
PWC Green.......5............9-5-2
PWC Gold.........9............6-9-1

They clearly need to put more teams at higher levels in Bantams/PWs. They should have another A and perhaps another B1 team at each level. Having 2 Squirt A teams has helped a little at the B/C levels, but they're still dominating the B/C levels at higher levels.

Agree that the Bantams should've had 2 B1's.

The Peewee group is talented this year. They have 4 C teams, 4 B2's, and 4 State eligible teams, which is exactly what the USAH recommends.

At the Squirt level the B and C teams are about average in D6 . There is a few reasons for this, but the main one is that they have fewer C teams proportionally than some of the other other associations.

Edina hockey Association is the largest in North America. All the teams are a little diluted at the real young level, but quickly improve as they develop players. The coaching is great, the parents are involved and they win. They also benefit as players transfer through open enrollment, for a chance to play at the best program. As far as AAA teams playing in tourneys against the MN teams, they are younger. They are all first year squirts. They are allowed to play at B against older teams. MN and ND don't abide by USA Hockey or Canada Hockey age rules, and are older! The first year AAA Pee Wee team from Phoenix (which is the same age as the MN squirts) would have cleaned your clock!!!

Caketastegreat wrote:Edina hockey Association is the largest in North America. All the teams are a little diluted at the real young level, but quickly improve as they develop players. The coaching is great, the parents are involved and they win. They also benefit as players transfer through open enrollment, for a chance to play at the best program. As far as AAA teams playing in tourneys against the MN teams, they are younger. They are all first year squirts. They are allowed to play at B against older teams. MN and ND don't abide by USA Hockey or Canada Hockey age rules, and are older! The first year AAA Pee Wee team from Phoenix (which is the same age as the MN squirts) would have cleaned your clock!!!

Ok now I just read this?

Go away.

Caketastegreat wrote:Edina hockey Association is the largest in North America. All the teams are a little diluted at the real young level, but quickly improve as they develop players. The coaching is great, the parents are involved and they win. They also benefit as players transfer through open enrollment, for a chance to play at the best program. As far as AAA teams playing in tourneys against the MN teams, they are younger. They are all first year squirts. They are allowed to play at B against older teams. MN and ND don't abide by USA Hockey or Canada Hockey age rules, and are older! The first year AAA Pee Wee team from Phoenix (which is the same age as the MN squirts) would have cleaned your clock!!!

Ok now I just read this?

Go away.

Yes, hard to swallow huh?:) Edina sent 15 teams to State's. Most in their history. Good bet to win the HS Championship again! Tough to argue with facts! And we will never go away:)

Caketastegreat wrote:Edina hockey Association is the largest in North America. All the teams are a little diluted at the real young level, but quickly improve as they develop players. The coaching is great, the parents are involved and they win. They also benefit as players transfer through open enrollment, for a chance to play at the best program. As far as AAA teams playing in tourneys against the MN teams, they are younger. They are all first year squirts. They are allowed to play at B against older teams. MN and ND don't abide by USA Hockey or Canada Hockey age rules, and are older! The first year AAA Pee Wee team from Phoenix (which is the same age as the MN squirts) would have cleaned your clock!!!

The AAA Squirt team from Phoenix that won the Fargo B side were all 2003s and were 2nd year squirts. Oh, and great win over Lincoln, NE in the championship. Do you realize how small that association is ( only have enough for one squirt team) and their best player is an 04? But great job on the win.

Caketastegreat wrote:Yes, hard to swallow huh?:) Edina sent 15 teams to State's. Most in their history. Good bet to win the HS Championship again! Tough to argue with facts! And we will never go away:)

neither will your hangover.

friggin drunk.

So many of these posts are unreal....I had to chime in. I am surprised at how you just can't make some parents happy even being on a good team with good coaches in the top association in the country. How about some perspective....here are a few of my thoughts on this (in no particular order).

- the old coach was undefeated. Sweet. It's Squirt hockey, big deal. He did it by shortening his bench. I saw them beat teams 7-0 and some kids only got 3 shifts. How is that about development? The board should've stepped in. They were so deep they could've played all kids equal and been either undefeated or very close to it. What's the difference between 35-0 and 31-4? I know he developed skilled players, but at what cost?

- why do some of the posters care about winning every tourney/game? Squirts is about developing skills, playing different positions, and giving kids exposure to every situation (pp, PK, 6 on 5, being out at the end do a game etc.). You don't know who all your studs will be in the coming years, expose as many as you can to key situations.

- the current squirt coaches are hockey guys. Edina has good people in place coaching at so many levels compared to,other places. I'd be curious to know if the dad's griping played much hockey.

- why are these dads watching every practice? It's healthy for your kid to not have you there all the time. Drop them off and let the coaches coach.

- the past few world jr tourneys, Finland and Sweden have had great success...they play more cross-ice, fewer games, and work on pure skills in a practice environment that often looks different than what we Americans think a Squirt practice should look like. I would venture to guess that some of the fins practices resemble an ADM Mite practice. Maybe the mad dads aren't really sure of what skill development really looks like.

- I know a few of the coaches for the Edina Squirt A teams. Good guys who know a lot about hockey. I'd love to have them coach my kid. I have seen so many bad coaches at the squirt level around the metro, you're blessed.

- it's awesome they have 2 a teams. They are both having success so you're developing 30 players instead of 15. This will pay dividends down the road. If both teams were 3-24 then I think you guys would have a point, but both are very successful w-l wise.

- why do you have your kids play hockey? I have mine play to learn to be a hard worker, to be a team player, to learn to win/lose with class, to have fun, to exercise, to learn how to encourage a buddy when they screw up, to fail, to get up and try again, to screw around in a hotel, to learn respect for a coach and on and on....winning games isn't too close to the top. Analyzing practices isn't on the radar.

I could keep going on. We are all going to blink and our kids will be grown up and we will wish we could go watch them play a game. Enjoy these years, don't over analyze them.

Great first post!

Outstanding Charliesimmer-A voice of reason.

How many kids will end up playing high school hockey from the 13 squirt teams?

30?