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Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:29 am**

Hermhawkey wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:
rainier wrote: Why doesn't this apply to your youth teams?
Tough question
We have always competed in the top level in Bantam/PW...and most years
get beat down by the cities Mega-associations and their 12 team levels. No question it helps the boys prepare to compete very well in single A. Seems to be a model that works. This team is the best I've seen I am confident they
would have done fairly well in AA, but so would Mahtomedi, EGF, DM, Denfeld and maybe few others. We are just a REALLY good A program. Like St. Thomas in Single A people hate us for it and as sad as it is...I guess that's human nature.

There, fixed that for you. Edina is in AA. Apples to Oranges.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:34 am**

Private vs. public school....whole different discussion.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:36 am**

Just this year we lost 4 good players to DM....if that didn't keep happening maybe would we have been AA by now.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:37 am**

That was nothing but a no class move by Plante. Can't think of any other time a coach did anything similar. I don't hate Hermantown for being good, I admire that. What I don't admire is poor sportsmanship and a lack of courage to compete with the best. Would like to see Hermantown beat Apollo and then keep their streak alive and have six runner-up finishes in a row.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:41 am**

Hermhawkey wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:
rainier wrote: Why doesn't this apply to your youth teams?
Tough question
We have always competed in the top level in Bantam/PW...and most years
get beat down by the cities Mega-associations and their 12 team levels. No question it helps the boys prepare to compete very well in single A. Seems to be a model that works. This team is the best I've seen I am confident they
would have done fairly well in AA, but so would Mahtomedi, EGF, DM, Denfeld and maybe few others. We are just a REALLY good A program. Like Edina in AA people hate us for it and as sad as it is...I guess that's human nature.

But many of those mega-associations will see a good portion of their talent disperse to private schools or maybe another public school where more playing time will be available. Hermantown will keep their talent, which allows them by high school to be just as good as a mega-association like Wayzata, as they were this season.

STA was also a REALLY good A program. By definition, a REALLY good A program should be in AA, as it means they can compete just fine in AA.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:45 am**

A good measure for the Hermantown's, Bemidji's etc is to make a swing through the cities and play the Edina's, St Thomas' (:):) ), Eden Prarie's, Hill Murray's, Wayazata's , etc to get a true gage on the team. Duluth East makes the journey and I think its a great move to prepare them for later on in the year.... AND would obviously answer the questions as to if they would be able to compete at the AA level, or in Bemidji's case, just how good they think they are..........

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:46 am**

As stated above we don't keep all our talent many seem to head to DM, 1 goalie to GR this year too.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:50 am**

nahc wrote:A good measure for the Hermantown's, Bemidji's etc is to make a swing through the cities and play the Edina's, St Thomas' (:):) ), Eden Prarie's, Hill Murray's, Wayazata's , etc to get a true gage on the team. Duluth East makes the journey and I think its a great move to prepare them for later on in the year.... AND would obviously answer the questions as to if they would be able to compete at the AA level, or in Bemidji's case, just how good they think they are..........

I would love to see that. But, most AA teams won't play us...Wayzata and Eden Prarie and Hopkins have in recent years and we have lost all those games btw.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:51 am**

Hermhawkey wrote:Just this year we lost 4 good players to DM....if that didn't keep happening maybe would we have been AA by now.

Is it a coincidence Hermantown lost these kids to DM the same year DM opted up to AA? Not at all, in fact, DM coach Flaherty said in a newspaper interview that he talked to those kids about DM going to AA, which appears to have sold them on the Hilltoppers. Now that there is another AA option in the Duluth area that will draw the top kids, Hermantown may get their wish and have everyone agree with them that they truly belong in single A.

If Hermantown were in AA, they would not only have a better chance of keeping their top players, but they increase their chances of having even more kids come there to play. That's the way it is in AA hockey; no one would care if Hermantown played with only kids from one zip code or 12 different zip codes if the Hawks were in AA. If you are located in a metro area, that's how you grow your program, you get more of the best kids from that area.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:56 am**

I am curious...how many kids have moved in to hermantown or open enrolled there?

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:57 am**

Hermhawkey

Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 19

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:46 am Post subject:
As stated above we don't keep all our talent many seem to head to DM, 1 goalie to GR this year too.

Maybe true but you also have move in talent for hockey. The Gotz boys from Hibbing. Dad still teaches in Hibbing and last couple years Zach Kramer from Virginia dad still works at a mining company in Virginia. Along with numerous others along the way. So I dont see the talent as all leaving the Hawks for other places as an issue

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:59 am**

Hermhawkey wrote:As stated above we don't keep all our talent many seem to head to DM, 1 goalie to GR this year too.

If you have a son in Squirts then you know that you pull in a ton of talent at the Youth Level as well, so don't play dumb. Your best 1st year Squirt lives in Gary-Morgan Park. Your best PeeWee lives on Pike Lake. Your best 06 lives in Piedmont. Your 2nd best 06 lives on Pike Lake. Your 4th best 06 lives in Piedmont. Your 2nd best 03 lives in Saginaw. I'm not familiar with the Bantam team, but since you have a son on that team too maybe you can fill us in?

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:00 am**

The Strib's David LaVaque speaks with Plante about the A-AA question. The article can be found here: (http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/news_article ... id=1322866), but it is copied below.

Whether it was Roseau in 2007 or Warroad in 1969, tiny northern schools with great talent and huge hearts who challenged the larger metro-area programs have long sparked the imagination of state tournament crowds.

But what happens when David refuses to pick up the slingshot?

Hermantown, a suburb of Duluth, won a Class 1A title in 2007. The Hawks went on to place second in the past five small-school state tournaments, during which time coach Bruce Plante spat bitterly about metro-area private schools – looking at you, St. Thomas Academy – and their unfair advantage against out-state schools.

A few years ago, the wise-cracking, straight-shooting Plante and his band of talented players could have emerged as tournament darlings. Instead, the Hawks are drawing scorn for staying in a class they appear, from a competitive standpoint, to have outgrown.

Sports classification by the Minnesota State High School League is enrollment based. Teams have the option to opt-up a class on a two-year cycle to test themselves against bigger schools and tougher competition. St. Thomas Academy did so the past two years. Duluth Marshall will make the jump beginning next season.

And Hermantown? Plante took the question head-on after Wednesday’s quarterfinal:

“No, we’re not going up to double A. So far it’s been up to me and what we do with our hockey program – our amateur people. We’ve been talking about it this winter a little bit but we only had 37 guys come out for our team this year. We kept 35. So we’re a little thin sometimes to be a double A team.

“Right now we’re on a good roll; we’ve had some really good players. We certainly could compete with [2A programs] right now but it’s not a thing that we can probably do every year. So we’re going to stay right where we’re at. I think it’s a good place for us to be.

“When you’re a good team, like we are, people want you to move up. I don’t know if that’s fair, either, because every good team – East Grand [Forks] should move up, Breck should move up. Everybody should move up if they a good team a few years in a row. We happen to be one of better teams right now in single A and we’re proud of that and I think we’re going to stay right there. That’s probably where we fit the best.

“We only have 600 kids in our school, so we’re small. Right now we’re fortunate to have a number of good players. In Hermantown, every other player has to be a good player to be a varsity player. It’s not the same odds Edina has, or Wayzata or any of these teams that have 12 bantam teams. We only have two [three]. So this is a good place for us."

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:12 am**

Hermhawkey wrote:Just this year we lost 4 good players to DM....if that didn't keep happening maybe would we have been AA by now.

That one fact summarizes why you should go AA. To get better you need to play against better. Big time stats mean nothing when you get to juniors or D1 and you aren't prepared to play at that level. One goal against Edina is prob equal to 50 against SLP. I don't know the details of those transfers but I'd put money on next years AA jump being a big factor.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:15 am**

Hermhawkey wrote:
nahc wrote:A good measure for the Hermantown's, Bemidji's etc is to make a swing through the cities and play the Edina's, St Thomas' (:):) ), Eden Prarie's, Hill Murray's, Wayazata's , etc to get a true gage on the team. Duluth East makes the journey and I think its a great move to prepare them for later on in the year.... AND would obviously answer the questions as to if they would be able to compete at the AA level, or in Bemidji's case, just how good they think they are..........
I would love to see that. But, most AA teams won't play us...Wayzata and Eden Prarie and Hopkins have in recent years and we have lost all those games btw.

Not true! Our private metro AA team has tried to schedule you three years running. Tell your AD you'd "love to see that."

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:18 am**

Hermhawkey wrote:
nahc wrote:A good measure for the Hermantown's, Bemidji's etc is to make a swing through the cities and play the Edina's, St Thomas' (:):) ), Eden Prarie's, Hill Murray's, Wayazata's , etc to get a true gage on the team. Duluth East makes the journey and I think its a great move to prepare them for later on in the year.... AND would obviously answer the questions as to if they would be able to compete at the AA level, or in Bemidji's case, just how good they think they are..........
I would love to see that. But, most AA teams won't play us...Wayzata and Eden Prarie and Hopkins have in recent years and we have lost all those games btw.

They won't play you because you are single A and they know you can beat them. Why would they want to take the chance of losing to an A team that could hurt them in section seedings? Grand Rapids gets invited to the freaking Edina tourney for god's sake; that wouldn't happen if they were single A. (And you beat Rapids 10-2 this year!)

Speaking of not playing teams, the Hermantown bantam AA team did not play a single Class A team this season, much less a team from 7A. Why won't they play in bantams the teams they will have to play in high school? The only way Hibbing can get a game with their top bantam team is by opting up to AA and hope to meet them in regions, as they did last season. (And yes, I do think Hibbing should be AA in high school for the next two seasons.)

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:21 am**

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:Just this year we lost 4 good players to DM....if that didn't keep happening maybe would we have been AA by now.
That one fact summarizes why you should go AA. To get better you need to play against better. Big time stats mean nothing when you get to juniors or D1 and you aren't prepared to play at that level. One goal against Edina is prob equal to 50 against SLP. I don't know the details of those transfers but I'd put money on next years AA jump being a big factor.

It was, the DM coach said as much in a newspaper interview.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:32 am**

Froggy Richards wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:As stated above we don't keep all our talent many seem to head to DM, 1 goalie to GR this year too.
If you have a son in Squirts then you know that you pull in a ton of talent at the Youth Level as well, so don't play dumb. Your best 1st year Squirt lives in Gary-Morgan Park. Your best PeeWee lives on Pike Lake. Your best 06 lives in Piedmont. Your 2nd best 06 lives on Pike Lake. Your 4th best 06 lives in Piedmont. Your 2nd best 03 lives in Saginaw. I'm not familiar with the Bantam team, but since you have a son on that team too maybe you can fill us in?

Best PEEWEE forward lives in Hermantown. ..kid on Pike Lake
will be at Marshall next year where his mother teaches and brother play.
Best First year Squirt...2 blocks from school (Plante boy)
Best Bantam TW lives in Hermantown as do all the rest I can think of.
Know nothing about 06 kid or 03 kid you refer to.

I would expect by the time my squirt is HS age we will be AA...that is a talented group there.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:37 am**

Hermhawkey wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:
rainier wrote: Why doesn't this apply to your youth teams?
Tough question
We have always competed in the top level in Bantam/PW...and most years
get beat down by the cities Mega-associations and their 12 team levels. No question it helps the boys prepare to compete very well in single A. Seems to be a model that works. This team is the best I've seen I am confident they
would have done fairly well in AA, but so would Mahtomedi, EGF, DM, Denfeld and maybe few others. We are just a REALLY good A program. Like Edina in AA people hate us for it and as sad as it is...I guess that's human nature.

I'm not going into details, it's been said in other posts, but Hermantown is what most say they want in HS hockey. Small school local boys playing for their community. The vast majority of this team has played together all through youth hockey. That first line is so good because they are talented and been playing/ rink ratting since they could walk. They are Hermantown boys. Of the open enrolled, only 1 ever played elsewhere. All 4 live closer to the HT school than the alternative and never considered another school. They are Hermantown boys. The current senior group was never large and the junior group behind them is actually tiny. What they have is a great program and the opportunity to develop if they choose to do so. Many at Hermantown choose to do just that. If I could give 1 reason as to why Hermantown can perform so well with so few, it would be having the youth association on school property, and it's 5 sheets of meticulously maintained outside ice. HT only has 1 sheet of inside ice, which is a huge issue, but when the weather is right, those rinks are full of kids playing the game and working on their skills. They can walk right from school, put on their gear and skate until the rink closes of their parents come and get them. It's safe and everybody looks out for each other. You don't have to worry about your 3rd grader at HAHA. From the kids to the adults, everybody has each others back. It's actually amazing and I consider myself lucky to have been a part of it. I think everybody that is and has been in the program knows we are not large and it takes much hard work from many to keep this program going. This year Hermantown has a special group of seniors that are trying to lead this program to something they have done only once and not since 2007; a Class A championship. Hopefully they achieve their goal. Maybe they will not. I know one thing for sure, these boys should be respected and admired for what they have accomplished and how good they are. They really are what most say the value in small school MN hockey. It is sad most just see the surface and have no idea how much heart and small town pride is actually in this team/program.
I think making a jump to AA for this program is a big decision. For them to have consistent success at AA, they first need to finish the school update plan. Hopefully it increases the capacity of the school so they can accept more open enrollee kids.
Next they need to get a second sheet of inside ice. There is not enough ice currently and with more kids open enrolling from Duluth, proctor, etc., the association needs more ice. With a bigger school and more ice, Hermantown would have a good chance at competing with East yearly for 7AA. Many more actual Hermantown kids would get cut and Hermantown would more closely resemble a AA cities team.
I'm sure this would make all of you happy, especially 7A teams, but I'm not sure that is what Hermantown wants. I quite sure Plante doesn't want this. It would be turning Hermantown hockey into what everybody is already accusing Hermantown of being but it's not.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:56 am**

pekyman wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote: Tough question
We have always competed in the top level in Bantam/PW...and most years
get beat down by the cities Mega-associations and their 12 team levels. No question it helps the boys prepare to compete very well in single A. Seems to be a model that works. This team is the best I've seen I am confident they
would have done fairly well in AA, but so would Mahtomedi, EGF, DM, Denfeld and maybe few others. We are just a REALLY good A program. Like Edina in AA people hate us for it and as sad as it is...I guess that's human nature.
I'm not going into details, it's been said in other posts, but Hermantown is what most say they want in HS hockey. Small school local boys playing for their community. The vast majority of this team has played together all through youth hockey. That first line is so good because they are talented and been playing/ rink ratting since they could walk. They are Hermantown boys. Of the open enrolled, only 1 ever played elsewhere. All 4 live closer to the HT school than the alternative and never considered another school. They are Hermantown boys. The current senior group was never large and the junior group behind them is actually tiny. What they have is a great program and the opportunity to develop if they choose to do so. Many at Hermantown choose to do just that. If I could give 1 reason as to why Hermantown can perform so well with so few, it would be having the youth association on school property, and it's 5 sheets of meticulously maintained outside ice. HT only has 1 sheet of inside ice, which is a huge issue, but when the weather is right, those rinks are full of kids playing the game and working on their skills. They can walk right from school, put on their gear and skate until the rink closes of their parents come and get them. It's safe and everybody looks out for each other. You don't have to worry about your 3rd grader at HAHA. From the kids to the adults, everybody has each others back. It's actually amazing and I consider myself lucky to have been a part of it. I think everybody that is and has been in the program knows we are not large and it takes much hard work from many to keep this program going. This year Hermantown has a special group of seniors that are trying to lead this program to something they have done only once and not since 2007; a Class A championship. Hopefully they achieve their goal. Maybe they will not. I know one thing for sure, these boys should be respected and admired for what they have accomplished and how good they are. They really are what most say the value in small school MN hockey. It is sad most just see the surface and have no idea how much heart and small town pride is actually in this team/program.
I think making a jump to AA for this program is a big decision. For them to have consistent success at AA, they first need to finish the school update plan. Hopefully it increases the capacity of the school so they can accept more open enrollee kids.
Next they need to get a second sheet of inside ice. There is not enough ice currently and with more kids open enrolling from Duluth, proctor, etc., the association needs more ice. With a bigger school and more ice, Hermantown would have a good chance at competing with East yearly for 7AA. Many more actual Hermantown kids would get cut and Hermantown would more closely resemble a AA cities team.
I'm sure this would make all of you happy, especially 7A teams, but I'm not sure that is what Hermantown wants. I quite sure Plante doesn't want this. It would be turning Hermantown hockey into what everybody is already accusing Hermantown of being but it's not.

Peky, the reasons you state about how Hermantown has developed themselves into a great hockey program are the reasons why so many of us have respected and cheered for them over the years, even though they would beat our 7A teams every year.

But the bottom line is that your team could compete just fine in AA. I feel certain they would have won 7AA 2-3 times the last 9 years, and to you that may not seem like success, but to most other high school hockey fans that would be tremendous success.

As a section 7 fan all my life, I watched Hibbing, Grand Rapids, Cloquet, Duluth East, Elk River, and Greenway all take turns making it to state at times. Some years you knew you weren't getting by Cloquet or Rapids, and it was okay, because you knew other years you would get by them. This is what is bothering a lot of people about Hermantown right now: the idea that if you're not guaranteed a spot in the state tourney then there is no reason to opt up.

Read how many people have posted that "They have always rooted for Hermantown, but just can't anymore." People love what Hermantown has become, but with that success comes the expectation of moving on in order to continue to grow and prove yourselves against the best.

Hermantown is a great program, for sure. We all just want to see them on the big stage.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:00 am**

pekyman wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote: Tough question
We have always competed in the top level in Bantam/PW...and most years
get beat down by the cities Mega-associations and their 12 team levels. No question it helps the boys prepare to compete very well in single A. Seems to be a model that works. This team is the best I've seen I am confident they
would have done fairly well in AA, but so would Mahtomedi, EGF, DM, Denfeld and maybe few others. We are just a REALLY good A program. Like Edina in AA people hate us for it and as sad as it is...I guess that's human nature.
I'm not going into details, it's been said in other posts, but Hermantown is what most say they want in HS hockey. Small school local boys playing for their community. The vast majority of this team has played together all through youth hockey. That first line is so good because they are talented and been playing/ rink ratting since they could walk. They are Hermantown boys. Of the open enrolled, only 1 ever played elsewhere. All 4 live closer to the HT school than the alternative and never considered another school. They are Hermantown boys. The current senior group was never large and the junior group behind them is actually tiny. What they have is a great program and the opportunity to develop if they choose to do so. Many at Hermantown choose to do just that. If I could give 1 reason as to why Hermantown can perform so well with so few, it would be having the youth association on school property, and it's 5 sheets of meticulously maintained outside ice. HT only has 1 sheet of inside ice, which is a huge issue, but when the weather is right, those rinks are full of kids playing the game and working on their skills. They can walk right from school, put on their gear and skate until the rink closes of their parents come and get them. It's safe and everybody looks out for each other. You don't have to worry about your 3rd grader at HAHA. From the kids to the adults, everybody has each others back. It's actually amazing and I consider myself lucky to have been a part of it. I think everybody that is and has been in the program knows we are not large and it takes much hard work from many to keep this program going. This year Hermantown has a special group of seniors that are trying to lead this program to something they have done only once and not since 2007; a Class A championship. Hopefully they achieve their goal. Maybe they will not. I know one thing for sure, these boys should be respected and admired for what they have accomplished and how good they are. They really are what most say the value in small school MN hockey. It is sad most just see the surface and have no idea how much heart and small town pride is actually in this team/program.
I think making a jump to AA for this program is a big decision. For them to have consistent success at AA, they first need to finish the school update plan. Hopefully it increases the capacity of the school so they can accept more open enrollee kids.
Next they need to get a second sheet of inside ice. There is not enough ice currently and with more kids open enrolling from Duluth, proctor, etc., the association needs more ice. With a bigger school and more ice, Hermantown would have a good chance at competing with East yearly for 7AA. Many more actual Hermantown kids would get cut and Hermantown would more closely resemble a AA cities team.
I'm sure this would make all of you happy, especially 7A teams, but I'm not sure that is what Hermantown wants. I quite sure Plante doesn't want this. It would be turning Hermantown hockey into what everybody is already accusing Hermantown of being but it's not.

Pekyman, Well stated. Hit the nail on the head.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:01 am**

Making a jump to AA is a big decision...really?
Wayzata L 3-4
Roseville W 4-3
Cloquet W 8-0
Hopkins L 1-2
Grand Rapids W 10-2
Bemidji W 6-1
White Bear Lake W 4-2
Cloquet T 3-3
Rogers W 8-2
Brainerd W 10-0

That's a record of 7-2-1 against AA teams. In sections they out scored teams 20-1 and one of them is going AA next year

The only decision is do you want your team to be challenged every year or cake walk to state. There is an easy solution. Class A teams should not be allowed to play non conference AA games. I bet that makes their decision pretty easy

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:01 am**

Hermhawkey wrote:
Froggy Richards wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:As stated above we don't keep all our talent many seem to head to DM, 1 goalie to GR this year too.
If you have a son in Squirts then you know that you pull in a ton of talent at the Youth Level as well, so don't play dumb. Your best 1st year Squirt lives in Gary-Morgan Park. Your best PeeWee lives on Pike Lake. Your best 06 lives in Piedmont. Your 2nd best 06 lives on Pike Lake. Your 4th best 06 lives in Piedmont. Your 2nd best 03 lives in Saginaw. I'm not familiar with the Bantam team, but since you have a son on that team too maybe you can fill us in?
Best PEEWEE forward lives in Hermantown. ..kid on Pike Lake
will be at Marshall next year where his mother teaches and brother play.

The Pike Lake kid is easily the best player on that team.

Best First year Squirt...2 blocks from school (Plante boy)

Not even close. The kid from GMP is the best 05 in the area and lives in GMP. The Plante kid is only Hermantown's 3rd best 06. (I would never name a kid on here, but you already did.) Top two 06 are open-enrollees.

Best Bantam TW lives in Hermantown as do all the rest I can think of.

Thank you.

Know nothing about 06 kid or 03 kid you refer to.

It's three 06 kids and you should watch them. They are really good. So is the 03, currently on the PeeWee B team while he sits out his year of ineligibility.

I would expect by the time my squirt is HS age we will be AA...that is a talented group there.

Yes indeed.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:14 am**

Hermhawkey wrote:As stated above we don't keep all our talent many seem to head to DM, 1 goalie to GR this year too.

That seems to be a new trend - the move to AA was a brilliant strategic move on the part of Marshall.

Lets not lose sight of the fact that this current group of extremely hard working and deserving kids has no control over coach or the class in which they play. Distaste for those things, yeah....but I will (and you can too) still root for these kids!

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:19 am**

NLHockey wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:As stated above we don't keep all our talent many seem to head to DM, 1 goalie to GR this year too.
That seems to be a new trend - the move to AA was a brilliant strategic move on the part of Marshall.

Lets not lose sight of the fact that this current group of extremely hard working and deserving kids has no control over coach or the class in which they play. Distaste for those things, yeah....but I will (and you can too) still root for these kids!

Agree 100%! The kids are talented and have put in the work to be the great team they are. I hope they enjoy their time at the tourney to the fullest!

HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

I find myself Rooting Against Hermantown - I think