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EREmpireStrikesBack wrote:The Factor is a joke. PB talks out of both sides of his mouth trying to keep it positive or at the very least, zero.

Intersting, ER seems to prefer the more slanted and biased approach to reporting. The Factor suggests he occupy his time by perusing a CNN thread..... or maybe one authored by slapshooter.

Here, The Factor remains fair and balanced in establishing the 'No Spin Zone' that is this thread regarding the effect of losing a pitcher who plays in 35 games.

Sure, ER wants to complain about losing Johan and needs to think that it is a tremendous loss to the team. But The Factorwill not allow the Spin Doctors and the media manipulators of information to carry the day.

Johan pitched well yesterday.Lets see how Livantan does tonight.

Stay tuned to The Factor.

Well, it would have been easier if Johan was pitching but , as The Factor has stated, makes no difference if you win 6-5 or 6-1.

Livantana has looked very hittable in his last few starts but the Twins have won them so, who cares.

By the time they next start , the season will be 60 games old and The Factor is at 0.

Interesting, the Talking Points established by Cal Griffith 40 years ago may still ring true today.

Sometimes I love the ads on the bored...

They do provide us with inspiration.

Govs93 wrote:Sometimes I love the ads on the bored...

Now THAT was a good catch!

Johan who?

Neutron 14 wrote:

Govs93 wrote:Sometimes I love the ads on the bored...

Now THAT was a good catch!

Who asked you to Opine?

Can't Never Tried wrote:Who asked you to Opine?

If I have to pull over to look that up, your going to get it....

Neutron 14 wrote:

Can't Never Tried wrote:Who asked you to Opine?

If I have to pull over to look that up, your going to get it....

It's a word Bill uses in his show in one of the segments.

intransitive verb
: to express opinions
transitive verb
: to state as an opinion

Its OK to Opine.

But absolutely No Spin is allowed.

Fair.

Balanced.

Interesting, we read writers who comment on CNNSI that the Twins are somehow a bad or one of the worst sports franchises because they refuse to pay Johan Sanatna 100's of millions of dollars to pitch for them.

See folks, that's the spin that the CNN types(notice I didnt say Liberal) want to put on things. They are afraid to call out the ballplayers and their union on what is clearly nothing more than a greedy extortion of the American basball fan. They want to make you believe that Johan is entitled to the money and the Twins are somehow irresponsible for not paying it to him.

Here, on The Factor we take a fair and balanced look at things as they are as it realtes to the facts. The facts are that what CNN calls one of the worst franchises is 1/2 game out of first and 3 games above .500 after making the playoffs 4 out of the last 6 years. They have a better record this year so far than last when they had Johan.

Their record would be no better if Johan was pitching for them.


No Spin, fact.

Stay tuned to The Factor.

packerboy wrote: They are afraid to call out the ballplayers and their union on what is clearly nothing more than a greedy extortion of the American basball fan.

Now that we know what the motive behind the "Adios Santana Factor" really is, I have no doubt that much like it's more senior name sake, there will be nothing but spin, despite claims to the contrary (much like a turd spinning down the drain).

But I will say that in theory, this would have to be relatively close. Would the Twins be much better off with him? To this point in the season, probably not. If you were to hypthesize and say Johan won every one of his 12 starts this season (which, of course, he wouldn't), if you take into account that the Twins are 10-3 in Livan's starts, that's only a net gain of 2.5 games which gives them only a 2 game lead over the Sox. Would a hypothetical 2 game lead be worth $25 million? Maybe on September 30.

Also, keep in mind that you can't accurately calculate the "Hola CarGo Factor", but he alone has won a couple of games already - and has the opportunity to win more than Santana will.

Govs, the only motivation here is to be fair.......and balanced.

Forget Cargorii. The Factor does not seek to evaluate the trade. It will take 3 years or maybe longer to do that.

Besides, it wasnt really a pure trade like the Garza/ Young deal.

It was economic manuevering on the Twins part and the deal they cut had plenty to do with the loss of Hunter , which again was economics.

The Factor believes that the Twins are better off without Santana and his salalry with the addititon of Cargorii , long term.
Interesting, ole Cal Griffith said he would never trade an everyday player for a pitcher. The Twins found 2 ballcubs to do just that.


But The Factor is uncertain of the effect the loss of Johan has on this seasons wins/losses. We will track that here in a most fair and balanced way...of course.

Stay tuned to The Factor.

Johan who?

Govs93 wrote:Now that we know what the motive behind the "Adios Santana Factor" really is, I have no doubt that much like it's more senior name sake, there will be nothing but spin, despite claims to the contrary (much like a turd spinning down the drain).

Now Govs, packerboys "version" of fair and balanced is always as valid as anyone elses(at least until admin shows up).

At least as valid as this guys...

Even this guy is "fair and balanced". Just ask him...

Yah, well here is what I want to know:

Irishmans Shanty wrote:Johan who?

Precisely what The Factor has found , so far.

I still think PB is spinning this however he wants. You say that because the Twins only scored 2 runs that the factor doesn't move, but then you say Livan gave up 5 and it doesn't as well. Who says that Johan wouldn't have won that game that the Twins scored only 2 in? I still think the trade was great, but I think the factor is flawed by the man behind the curtain.

EREmpireStrikesBack wrote:I still think PB is spinning this however he wants. You say that because the Twins only scored 2 runs that the factor doesn't move, but then you say Livan gave up 5 and it doesn't as well. Who says that Johan wouldn't have won that game that the Twins scored only 2 in? I still think the trade was great, but I think the factor is flawed by the man behind the curtain.

It all depends on whose kool-aid your drinking ER. So, how was the X last night? Crowded?

Well ER,
First of all, the Twins are like 10-3 in Livantana starts so any fair and balanced analysis would result in The Factor being pretty close to 0 unless you think the Twins would be undefeated when Joahn Who was pitching.

Secondly, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

As far as the Kool Aid thing goes, The Factor is on top of that too:




Again,The Factor does not attempt to evaluate the trade.

Our goal is to present Talking Points regarding the true effect of losing an "ace" pitcher on team such as the Twins. The Factor has determined that , so far, that effect is 0 on the 2008 Twins.

But stay tuned to The Factor as we continue to presnt fair and balanced reports on the issues.

packerboy wrote:But stay tuned to The Factor as we continue to presnt fair and balanced reports on the issues.

The Factor predicted this. Who the hell else knew?



I'm sure Ol' Calvin is rolling over right now....

The Factor has no interest in making political statments.

This is a NO SPIN zone thread.





Fair.

Balanced.

Will Johan Who be missed?

The Factor will report.

packerboy wrote:This is a NO SPIN zone thread.

Nothing but the facts have been reported.

Just like this guy...

The only reason I'd go to the X is for hockey or concerts. And Neut, for the record there is no way you'd have found me there on Tuesday.

PB, some of your "arguments" have been flawed IMO. I'd have it at -1 right now, possibly -2 so you aren't that far off of my estimation so I can't argue too much. We shall see how it continues. Btw, I'm just trying to add this discussion that you seek. Having to back your reasoning can't be that hard?

EREmpireStrikesBack wrote:
PB, some of your "arguments" have been flawed IMO

I'll admit that . The Factor may be flawed. The biggest flaw is that Johan Who and Livantana are not pitching vs the same teams.

But still the Twins are 10-3 when Livantana starts and they wouldnt be any better if Who was here, according to The Factor.

So, flawed? Maybe.

Fair and balanced?........oh, most definitely.



No need to explain your posts ER, I get it.