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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:57 pm
by fivehole628
ilbok wrote:Then you thought wrong ...
it is a marketing slogan used by a Minnesota professional team ...
with no national championships ...
ZERO.
Most states would be embarrassed to call themselves the State of Hockey with such a record.
I'm pretty sure we have been considered the State of Hockey for the past 20 years or so.
But you are right in one thing, the Wild started to use it as a marketing slogan.
I'd love to see your University School of Milwaukee face off against Edina... boy wouldn't that be a great game!
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:12 pm
by warriors41
I'm just taking a quick glance at some WCHA rosters.
Wisconsin-10 kids on their team are from Wisconsin (5 from MN, a bunch others from Canada and other areas)
Minnesota-I count 24 out of 25 kids on the team are from Minnesota. The "other" kid is from Ohio I think
UND-6 Minnesota kids and a ton of Canadians. 1 kid from Wisconsin
Bemidji State-8 MN kids and a bunch of Canadians. 1 kid from Wisconsin
Mankato State-18 kids from Minnesota and zero from Wisconsin
Out of all these schools (and these are the only ones I looked at) there are 61 kids from Minnesota. 12 Wisconsin kids with 10 of those being at Wisconsin itself. If Minnesota wasn't such a great hockey state than there wouldn't be so many MN kids making it to the next level. according to these numbers, 5 times as many MN kids play d-1 college puck compared to WI. I think the case is closed
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:21 pm
by mn miracle man
ilbok wrote:Then you thought wrong ...
it is a marketing slogan used by a Minnesota professional team ...
with no national championships ...
ZERO.
Most states would be embarrassed to call themselves the State of Hockey with such a record.
And you compare this to who, the Milwaukee Admirals? You obviously have no hockey knowledge, and judging by your amount of posts, not a whole lot of better things to do than post on message boards all day.
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:32 am
by PoniesDad45
Obviously ilbok is just trolling for responses here. I think you guys boxed him in pretty well.
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:37 pm
by ilbok
Well, at least PoniesDad45 knows never to badger a Badger.
I will concede the point that hockey knowledge is inversely proportional to posts, since mn miracle man has more than double my post total (TM).
It is so State-of-Hockey-think typical that warriors41 study of D-1 schools only included ones that border or are within the border of Minnesota. Don't you guys ever want to leave home? Sounds more like the State of Mommas' Boys.
Not to be left out, fivehole628 wants us to look back twenty years when Minnesota was getting ready to ruin high school hockey with the two tier system; every professional team like the Fighting Saints had folded or in the case of the North Stars had to move to Texas for greater fan support and Stanley Cup success; and the Gophers continued the Woog era as perennial underachievers.
So, let us recap:
Florida has twice the teams and 100% more Stanley Cup success (with or without Miami) than the State of Hockey;
Texas took the State of Hockey's team and finally took them to Stanley Cup glory never achieved by the State of Hockey;
Wisconsin made the NCAA final and beat the #1 State of Hockey U16 team with Wisconsin's third or fourth best team;
Michigan has many more NCAA championships, the Red Wings and USA Hockey;
Massachusetts and the Vatican won the NCAA championship again this year....
Maybe the State of Hockey needs to find a smaller state to compare ...
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:40 pm
by MJ
ilbok wrote: Maybe the State of Hockey needs to find a smaller state to compare ... like Rhode Island ... whoops ... even Rhode Island made the frozen four this year....
who in rhode island made the frozen four? RIT is in NY smart guy... For all of us who truly don't believe that MN is not the state of hockey, your not helping...
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:46 pm
by ilbok
These Minnesota kids never would have caught that
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:14 pm
by DubCHAGuy
ilbok wrote:Well, at least PoniesDad45 knows never to corner a Badger.
I will concede the point that hockey knowledge is inversely proportional to posts, since mn miracle man has more than double my post total (TM).
It is so State-of-Hockey-think typical that warriors41 study of D-1 schools only included ones that border or are within the border of Minnesota. Don't you guys ever want to leave home? Sounds more like the State of Mommas' Boys.
Not to be left out, fivehole628 wants us to look back twenty years when Minnesota was getting ready to ruin high school hockey with the two tier system; every professional team like the Fighting Saints had folded or in the case of the North Stars had to move to Texas for greater fan support and Stanley Cup success; and the Gophers continued the Woog era as perennial underachievers.
So, let us recap:
Florida has twice the teams and 100% more Stanley Cup success (with or without Miami) than the State of Hockey;
Texas took the State of Hockey's team and finally took them to Stanley Cup glory never achieved by the State of Hockey;
Wisconsin made the NCAA final and beat the #1 State of Hockey U16 team with Wisconsin's third or fourth best team;
Michigan has many more NCAA championships, the Red Wings and USA Hockey;
Massachusetts and the Vatican won the NCAA championship again this year....
Maybe the State of Hockey needs to find a smaller state to compare ...
If you are going to base this on Stanley Cups then are you also saying that Tampa FL, Raleigh NC, and Anaheim CA have taken over as better hockey areas than Montreal, Toronto, Calgary, Vancouver, etc.?
I can see the case for Michigan however, I think they produce the 2nd most D1 players and usually have a few that make their way up to the Canadian Major Junior Leagues as well.
Also, a serious question. What exactly is U16? Do any good Minnesota kids play at this level? I was under the impression that kids typically went from Bantam to High School.
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:07 am
by ilbok
Wow, the list keeps growing!
Rhode Island, New York, California, North Carolina, Florida, Texas, Massachusetts, the Vatican, Wisconsin, Michigan,
and now, Montreal, Toronto, Calgary, Vancouver, etc....
all better than the so-called State of Hockey!
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:55 am
by FREDFLINTSTONE
DubCHAGuy wrote:ilbok wrote:Well, at least PoniesDad45 knows never to corner a Badger.
I will concede the point that hockey knowledge is inversely proportional to posts, since mn miracle man has more than double my post total (TM).
It is so State-of-Hockey-think typical that warriors41 study of D-1 schools only included ones that border or are within the border of Minnesota. Don't you guys ever want to leave home? Sounds more like the State of Mommas' Boys.
Not to be left out, fivehole628 wants us to look back twenty years when Minnesota was getting ready to ruin high school hockey with the two tier system; every professional team like the Fighting Saints had folded or in the case of the North Stars had to move to Texas for greater fan support and Stanley Cup success; and the Gophers continued the Woog era as perennial underachievers.
So, let us recap:
Florida has twice the teams and 100% more Stanley Cup success (with or without Miami) than the State of Hockey;
Texas took the State of Hockey's team and finally took them to Stanley Cup glory never achieved by the State of Hockey;
Wisconsin made the NCAA final and beat the #1 State of Hockey U16 team with Wisconsin's third or fourth best team;
Michigan has many more NCAA championships, the Red Wings and USA Hockey;
Massachusetts and the Vatican won the NCAA championship again this year....
Maybe the State of Hockey needs to find a smaller state to compare ...
If you are going to base this on Stanley Cups then are you also saying that Tampa FL, Raleigh NC, and Anaheim CA have taken over as better hockey areas than Montreal, Toronto, Calgary, Vancouver, etc.?
I can see the case for Michigan however, I think they produce the 2nd most D1 players and usually have a few that make their way up to the Canadian Major Junior Leagues as well.
Also, a serious question. What exactly is U16? Do any good Minnesota kids play at this level? I was under the impression that kids typically went from Bantam to High School.
Correct me if I am wrong, but is the U16 for players that didn't make the HS Varsity, HS Junior Varsity, Jr. Gold A or Jr. Gold B?
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:00 pm
by MrBoDangles
ilbok wrote:Wow, the list keeps growing!
Rhode Island, New York, California, North Carolina, Florida, Texas, Massachusetts, the Vatican, Wisconsin, Michigan,
and now, Montreal, Toronto, Calgary, Vancouver, etc....
all better than the so-called State of Hockey!
What is your point? That you think Wisconsin is the state of hockey? U of W has a few Wisconsin players that are decent, after that Wisconsin has nothing to contribute to the sport. Total lack of interest over there from seeing a clip from their state
tournament.
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:15 am
by PoniesDad45
FREDFLINTSTONE wrote:DubCHAGuy wrote:ilbok wrote:Well, at least PoniesDad45 knows never to corner a Badger.
I will concede the point that hockey knowledge is inversely proportional to posts, since mn miracle man has more than double my post total (TM).
It is so State-of-Hockey-think typical that warriors41 study of D-1 schools only included ones that border or are within the border of Minnesota. Don't you guys ever want to leave home? Sounds more like the State of Mommas' Boys.
Not to be left out, fivehole628 wants us to look back twenty years when Minnesota was getting ready to ruin high school hockey with the two tier system; every professional team like the Fighting Saints had folded or in the case of the North Stars had to move to Texas for greater fan support and Stanley Cup success; and the Gophers continued the Woog era as perennial underachievers.
So, let us recap:
Florida has twice the teams and 100% more Stanley Cup success (with or without Miami) than the State of Hockey;
Texas took the State of Hockey's team and finally took them to Stanley Cup glory never achieved by the State of Hockey;
Wisconsin made the NCAA final and beat the #1 State of Hockey U16 team with Wisconsin's third or fourth best team;
Michigan has many more NCAA championships, the Red Wings and USA Hockey;
Massachusetts and the Vatican won the NCAA championship again this year....
Maybe the State of Hockey needs to find a smaller state to compare ...
If you are going to base this on Stanley Cups then are you also saying that Tampa FL, Raleigh NC, and Anaheim CA have taken over as better hockey areas than Montreal, Toronto, Calgary, Vancouver, etc.?
I can see the case for Michigan however, I think they produce the 2nd most D1 players and usually have a few that make their way up to the Canadian Major Junior Leagues as well.
Also, a serious question. What exactly is U16? Do any good Minnesota kids play at this level? I was under the impression that kids typically went from Bantam to High School.
Correct me if I am wrong, but is the U16 for players that didn't make the HS Varsity, HS Junior Varsity, Jr. Gold A or Jr. Gold B?
That is usually the case. If you look at Minnetonka's U16 they were all sophomores and pretty much all skilled enough to play JV but they decided to put them all together on the U16 and then send them either to Varsity or JV next season, that is how loaded their program is. They went undefeated in the regular season and won the State U16 tourney. There are some skilled players at that level.
My son played U16 this year on Stillwater's U16. We ended up placing 3rd in the State Tourney. I think it's a pretty good league with the only problem being the extreme lack of talent on the bottom teams (Wayzata and two of the three Edina teams were pretty bad).
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:30 pm
by fivehole628
ilbok wrote:Wow, the list keeps growing!
Rhode Island, New York, California, North Carolina, Florida, Texas, Massachusetts, the Vatican, Wisconsin, Michigan,
and now, Montreal, Toronto, Calgary, Vancouver, etc....
all better than the so-called State of Hockey!
How many times has Shattuck won a national championship?
And just wondering... how many fans does the Wisco State hockey tourney attract each year?
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:41 pm
by MrBoDangles
hockeyfan893 wrote:ilbok wrote:Why were the State of Hockey
Those who would boast about their state should not misspell their thread titles.
The State of Hockey must be pretty insecure to start a thread defending itself when nobody here has been bashing Minnesota hockey in the first place.
I really never questioned the state of hockey in the State of Hockey until reading this thread.
Historically, the boast always seemed hollow and ridiculous when most the other states did not have hockey rinks.
Back then, Minnesota should have dominated the sport even more than it has in your minds, yet there were years when no Minnesotan cracked even the Olympic lineup (let alone the NHL).
In the best years, Minnesota would send a few kids from St. Paul and a few more from the North ... hardly the domination you claim.
Even within the state today, Minnesota can muster only about 150 programs out of how many hundreds of schools?
And how many actually compete for the state title? Edina, Roseau, Hill-Murray, throw in another Minneapolis suburb and another team from the North ... not exactly a statewide phenomenon.
Maybe the "were" is appropriate ... as in "Were we really ever the State of Hockey?"
Well written post, and I do agree with you that maybe being the State of Hockey is often overused to the point where it becomes a little bit of a brag. However I believe that Minnesota still is the "State of Hockey" for a number of reasons.
I agree with you that the number of teams that actually compete for the state title on a regular basis is a small group. As you mentioned, Hill, Roseau, Edina, and a few other more well known programs like Duluth East are usually the only teams that compete year to year. But you also have to recognize the level of competition and skill that can be found amongst Minnesota highschool hockey in general, no matter who actually makes the state tournament. In my opinion, the general skill and competition level of our Minnesotan highschool players is some of the best hockey for that age group around the country.
Backing up that idea are the statistics of division 1 players that come from Minnesota. Minnesotans make up 21.27% of division 1 collegiate hockey players from the United States. Massachusetts comes in second with 5% less, 16.26%.
Excuse me if these numbers are slightly off, but these are the most recent ones I could find.
http://www.insidecollegehockey.com/7Arc ... l_0222.htm
If there are more recent statistics that anyone could find, it would help.
But if my statistics, at least in the sense that Minnesota still leads the pack, still hold true, it points to the strength of Minnesota hockey.
Please, statistics and corrections always up
Good discussion.
California has as many players as Wisconsin in D-1 .......
MN has 18 of the top 20 HS teams in the final national rankings!!! Wisconsins best............... #51 Notre Dame Academy
MN is the State Of Hockey as Wisconsin is the (fill in the blank) of hockey.
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:31 pm
by fivehole628
ilbok's runnin out of comebacks
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:50 pm
by R1nk Rat 174
I think Ilbok realized Wisconsin high school hockey looks like a beer league compared to Minnesota. And he thought it was time to leave the talking to adults and big boys from Minnesota, the people whoe know what theyre talking about
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:28 pm
by MJ
R1nk Rat 174 wrote:I think Ilbok realized Wisconsin high school hockey looks like a beer league compared to Minnesota. And he thought it was time to leave the talking to adults and big boys from Minnesota, the people whoe know what theyre talking about
That's a little bit of a reach. Wisconsin just played the minnesota showcase team to a one goal game in plymouth this past weekend...
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:13 pm
by JSR
The51 wrote:
Midget AAA develops players much better than High School Hockey
I disagree with that statement. When complimented with proper before and after opportunities High School hockey does every bit as good of a job as AAA MM hockey. Note that Team Wisconsin (which is made up of high school players) hass put more kids in D1 programs, NAHL and USHL than the three year round Tier 1 programs in Wisconsin combined over the last 6 years. And Minnesota H.S. players are still ruling the roost in overall numbers. I think, and I've said this before, that Minnesota is still doign a greta job but you have to come to grips with the fact that the sport is growing exponentially in other areas and your strangle hold on teh sport is longer possible lik eit was 20 years ago and before. In other words, you cannot use the same measuring stick that you used to measure your success 20 years ago and apply it today, it just won't work and you'll drive yourself crazy thinking it does.
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:02 am
by ilbok
Plus, you crazy Minnesotans cannot keep your site up!
As I was saying before being rudely deleted, you Minnesota experts and your favorite Classic Lake Conference Sections 2 & 6 have not fared so well in the postseason state tournaments.
As it turns out, it was Hill's Section 4 that won Ted Brill and the Advanced/Select 16 & 17 state championships.
This proves two things:
Minnesotans are terrible evaluators of hockey talent;
Section 4 must be benefiting from its proximity to Wisconsin.
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:32 am
by JSR
MJ wrote:R1nk Rat 174 wrote:I think Ilbok realized Wisconsin high school hockey looks like a beer league compared to Minnesota. And he thought it was time to leave the talking to adults and big boys from Minnesota, the people whoe know what theyre talking about
That's a little bit of a reach. Wisconsin just played the minnesota showcase team to a one goal game in plymouth this past weekend...
Actually to clarify further, Team Wisconsin just WON the MN Showcase this past weekend
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:51 am
by ilbok
The thread title reads:
"Why we're the State of Hockey!"
You just have to be standing on my side of the St. Croix River to decipher its meaning correctly.
The former "State of Hockey" must be "runnin out of comebacks!"
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:26 pm
by BodyShots
I just saw the ESPN.com Poll today and it makes me embarrassed to be a Minnesotan. The Poll question is: What are you most interested in this weekend?" and the NBA playoffs is beating the NHL playoffs 31% to 24% in the STATE OF HOCKEY. At least Illinois, Michigan, and Pennsylvania have hockey beating basketball.
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:47 pm
by OnFrozenPond
BodyShots wrote:I just saw the ESPN.com Poll today and it makes me embarrassed to be a Minnesotan. The Poll question is: What are you most interested in this weekend?" and the NBA playoffs is beating the NHL playoffs 31% to 24% in the STATE OF HOCKEY. At least Illinois, Michigan, and Pennsylvania have hockey beating basketball.
Shows how important it is to have a horse in the race even in a traditionally strong hockey market.
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:24 pm
by MrBoDangles
BodyShots wrote:I just saw the ESPN.com Poll today and it makes me embarrassed to be a Minnesotan. The Poll question is: What are you most interested in this weekend?" and the NBA playoffs is beating the NHL playoffs 31% to 24% in the STATE OF HOCKEY. At least Illinois, Michigan, and Pennsylvania have hockey beating basketball.
(Detroit) Michigan, (Pittsburgh) Pennsylvania, (Chicago) Illinois,
They all still have teams in the playoffs....... I'm embarrassed you're a Minnesotan also
Are you related to ibok?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:46 pm
by MrBoDangles
ilbok wrote:The thread title reads:
"Why we're the State of Hockey!"
You just have to be standing on my side of the St. Croix River to decipher its meaning correctly.
The former "State of Hockey" must be "runnin out of comebacks!"
Wisconsin IS the red headed step child of North American hockey.....
Great players to the East in Michigan.. Great players to the West in Minnesota... Great players just to the north in Canada...... Where do the slacker wisconsinites land??? DRUM ROLL PLEASE..'''' with the likes of California and Texas.
