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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:42 am
by BadgerBob82
[quote]I've already mentioned that we should look at the rosters of the Adv 15-17 teams when they are announced and determine the ratio of players who play(ed) AAA vs those that didn't.[/quote]
M&G: I've already mentioned also that the players that tryout for Advance 15-17 are the same players that played AAA spring hockey in the past. The ones that don't accept the tryout invitations generally play spring sports and/or have not played AAA hockey. They aren't by default lesser players than the year rounders.
Since you will be tracking those rosters for us, please track back to see how many Adv 15-17 played AAA year round as 10 year olds or under.
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:42 am
by InigoMontoya
OG85,
Are you super-duper positive? Just in case someone from FL hops on here to say that not one of the FL varsity skaters ever did more than a Robby Glanz 3-day camp - 4-6 hours of bungie cords is all it takes.
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:44 am
by InigoMontoya
The ones that don't accept the tryout invitations generally play spring sports and/or have not played AAA hockey.
Where do they publish that list?
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:27 am
by muckandgrind
BadgerBob82 wrote:I've already mentioned that we should look at the rosters of the Adv 15-17 teams when they are announced and determine the ratio of players who play(ed) AAA vs those that didn't.
M&G: I've already mentioned also that the players that tryout for Advance 15-17 are the same players that played AAA spring hockey in the past.
The ones that don't accept the tryout invitations generally play spring sports and/or have not played AAA hockey. They aren't by default lesser players than the year rounders.
Since you will be tracking those rosters for us, please track back to see how many Adv 15-17 played AAA year round as 10 year olds or under.
That's not necessarily true.....I've known quite a few players who go out for Adv 15-17 AND play spring sports....they're not mutually exlusive you know.. Just like kids who play baseball or football AND play AAA in the offseason. My kids have done it.
I'm sure a majority of those players on the Adv 15-17 were also playing AAA, or summer hockey of some sort, by the age of 10 (2nd year Squirt)...Although, I'm not sure I know how I can prove that they were....I can only go by what I personally know..
I'm also curious as to the percentage of current/future Minnesota Gophers that didn't play AAA in the summer?
Re: Hockey Camp vs AAA summer team
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:16 am
by drop the puck
letsbehonest wrote:So what is better for little johnny Hockey Camp or Summer AAA team?
Back to the original quote. Summer AAA - to me that implies June and July ice times too.
Many, many teams set up and play AAA hockey April 1 - May 15 and August 1 - Sept 15. Others play March 15 - Sept 15 and still others play year around.
Whole lotta AAA teams now, many local coaches forming teams from a couple communities, 3 practices, 4 games, repeat.
Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:18 pm
by HeShootsHeScores
I am sort of off topic, sorry
Summer AAA $2,000.00 (incudes gas, hotels in Duluth or Canada, ect)
Association Hockey $2,000.00 (for a traveing team, to include hotels, gas etc)
Misc equipment costs $500.00 per year
Total cost $4500.00 per kid (at least, I think if I were honest about the total cost is would be at least $5,000.00. mind you, I have two kids playing so it'd be about $9,000 per year.)
Does everyone put this much money into their kids college fund each year? We're trying to save instead of spend that's why we chose a summer long hockey clinic instead of AAA. Way less expensive. I realize that giving up AAA hockey might hinder my kid's chance at making a D1 team or the advanced 15 team however I fully expect that when they graduate from college they won't be too far in debt.
Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:23 am
by Doglover
That's not necessarily true.....I've known quite a few players who go out for Adv 15-17 AND play spring sports....they're not mutually exlusive you know.. Just like kids who play baseball or football AND play AAA in the offseason. My kids have done it.
I'm sure a majority of those players on the Adv 15-17 were also playing AAA, or summer hockey of some sort, by the age of 10 (2nd year Squirt)...Although, I'm not sure I know how I can prove that they were....I can only go by what I personally know..
I'm also curious as to the percentage of current/future Minnesota Gophers that didn't play AAA in the summer?[/quote]
M&G is right. From my experience as well, most of the elite players not only play AAA hockey and Advanced 15-17, they also play a spring sport. The 4 tournaments with some practices before each is a successful Blades model that allows kids to play spring sports and get an opportunity to play on a team with other elite players in the "off season". Usually these teams take July off for family vacations and just some down time. While I don't think your kid needs to play AAA, I think they are at an advantage in the Fall if they do. Most also like the opportunity to meet and play with other top players from other communities. If you watch the State Tournaments at all levels - the top kids on the opposing teams know each other well and while they are competitors during the games, they embrace and chat on the ice together after. It's a great community of hockey players in MN and AAA gives them the opportunity to get to know one another.
Great article in recent LPH on Blades players in the State HS Tournament. Was surprised to see how many Blades players were represented on the teams. Good job by all the kids and teams. I hate to see another season end.
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:28 pm
by Doglover
HD41 father of the 6 year old year round hockey player: Quote:
I don't understand.
---------
EXACTLY - that's what we've been trying to tell you all along.
2004 AAA Elite
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:14 am
by northwoods oldtimer
HeShootsHeScores wrote:I am sort of off topic, sorry
Summer AAA $2,000.00 (incudes gas, hotels in Duluth or Canada, ect)
Association Hockey $2,000.00 (for a traveing team, to include hotels, gas etc)
Misc equipment costs $500.00 per year
Total cost $4500.00 per kid (at least, I think if I were honest about the total cost is would be at least $5,000.00. mind you, I have two kids playing so it'd be about $9,000 per year.)
Does everyone put this much money into their kids college fund each year? We're trying to save instead of spend that's why we chose a summer long hockey clinic instead of AAA. Way less expensive. I realize that giving up AAA hockey might hinder my kid's chance at making a D1 team or the advanced 15 team however I fully expect that when they graduate from college they won't be too far in debt.
No sir it will not impact your kid at all. You are ahead of the curve and smarter than the herd
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:37 am
by muckandgrind
northwoods oldtimer wrote:HeShootsHeScores wrote:I am sort of off topic, sorry
Summer AAA $2,000.00 (incudes gas, hotels in Duluth or Canada, ect)
Association Hockey $2,000.00 (for a traveing team, to include hotels, gas etc)
Misc equipment costs $500.00 per year
Total cost $4500.00 per kid (at least, I think if I were honest about the total cost is would be at least $5,000.00. mind you, I have two kids playing so it'd be about $9,000 per year.)
Does everyone put this much money into their kids college fund each year? We're trying to save instead of spend that's why we chose a summer long hockey clinic instead of AAA. Way less expensive. I realize that giving up AAA hockey might hinder my kid's chance at making a D1 team or the advanced 15 team however I fully expect that when they graduate from college they won't be too far in debt.
No sir it will not impact your kid at all. You are ahead of the curve and smarter than the herd
Is hockey the only sport where your chances of success INCREASE the less you train?
Doubtful.
Of course, don't take that to mean that by playing AAA you are GUARANTEEING you son/daughter a chance to play D-1, either....but it certainly doesn't hurt.
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:12 am
by InigoMontoya
muckandgrind wrote:northwoods oldtimer wrote:HeShootsHeScores wrote:I am sort of off topic, sorry
Summer AAA $2,000.00 (incudes gas, hotels in Duluth or Canada, ect)
Association Hockey $2,000.00 (for a traveing team, to include hotels, gas etc)
Misc equipment costs $500.00 per year
Total cost $4500.00 per kid (at least, I think if I were honest about the total cost is would be at least $5,000.00. mind you, I have two kids playing so it'd be about $9,000 per year.)
Does everyone put this much money into their kids college fund each year? We're trying to save instead of spend that's why we chose a summer long hockey clinic instead of AAA. Way less expensive. I realize that giving up AAA hockey might hinder my kid's chance at making a D1 team or the advanced 15 team however I fully expect that when they graduate from college they won't be too far in debt.
No sir it will not impact your kid at all. You are ahead of the curve and smarter than the herd
Is hockey the only sport where your chances of success INCREASE the less you train?
Doubtful.
Of course, don't take that to mean that by playing AAA you are GUARANTEEING you son/daughter a chance to play D-1, either....but it certainly doesn't hurt.
Still looking for that elusive D-1 superstar that hung up his skates in March and dusted them off again in October.
NWOT, taking the stance "it will not impact your kid at all" is admirable, but take care which wide-eyed first-time parent believes you.
HSHS, if you can't afford summer hockey, then don't do it. If, however, you don't feel you can afford the additional gas in your brand new Escalade, then you have a priority issue, and I'm guessing that the little shaver's post secondary matriculation is not very high on that list. Maybe we could stop with the Lucia quotes and paraphrases when trying to make a point about youth hockey.
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:38 am
by dogeatdog1
InigoMontoya wrote:muckandgrind wrote:northwoods oldtimer wrote:
No sir it will not impact your kid at all. You are ahead of the curve and smarter than the herd
Is hockey the only sport where your chances of success INCREASE the less you train?
Doubtful.
Of course, don't take that to mean that by playing AAA you are GUARANTEEING you son/daughter a chance to play D-1, either....but it certainly doesn't hurt.
Still looking for that elusive D-1 superstar that hung up his skates in March and dusted them off again in October.
Jeff Neilson Former Wild player... Many others up Nort don't start AAA hockey until Late in life... some not at all.. Not saying that they don't skate in the summer they and their parents just find other ways to develop hockey skills... including other sports.
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:49 am
by muckandgrind
dogeatdog1 wrote:InigoMontoya wrote:muckandgrind wrote:
Is hockey the only sport where your chances of success INCREASE the less you train?
Doubtful.
Of course, don't take that to mean that by playing AAA you are GUARANTEEING you son/daughter a chance to play D-1, either....but it certainly doesn't hurt.
Still looking for that elusive D-1 superstar that hung up his skates in March and dusted them off again in October.
Jeff Neilson Former Wild player...
Many others up Nort don't start AAA hockey until Late in life... some not at all.. Not saying that they don't skate in the summer they and their parents just find other ways to develop hockey skills... including other sports.
I would say this is a true and factual statement. I would be willing to bet that the far majority of youth players in this state DON'T play AAA in the summer...but on the other hand, I would also be willing to bet that the far majority of D1 players DID play AAA or some other form of hockey training in the summer.
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:19 am
by Doglover
Puck Whisperer wrote:HockeyDad41 wrote:InigoMontoya wrote:HockeyDad41 & MN_Hcky_Coach are Jeckyll & Hyde skating little circles between the blue lines within the boards of schizophrenia, each playing suck hole in a 1-on-1 game where the puck is in the corner.
I don't understand.
This made me laugh - it's a funny way of saying that both your views are (extreme) polar opposite. I apologize IM if I interepreted this incorrectly!
We were all laughing!! I agree that everyone has their own view about what is the best development/summer training for their kids. I think the concerns on here are regarding the "new breed" of uneducated hockey dads (a la hockeydad41) who because of their ignorance of the sport and desire to live through their kids, may ruin their perfectly fine 6 yr old kids by making them play hockey 24-7 at Bernieland or some other training facility happy to take their money and encourage their views. In the process they may bankrupt their bank accounts (stick witht the checks - first wise post you've made) thinking they can "buy" a D1 scholarship when in all likelihood these kids will hang it up before they even get there since they will burn out at age 8-10.
The general truth is that by a certain age kids do need to specialize and it's only the great exception that can continue to excel at 3 sports (but all power to them if they can). Majority of Adv kids play hockey year round by high school. There are always exceptions though. The Alt boy from Centennial (football and hockey recruit) and Budish from Edina (football, hockey and baseball) are examples of the exceptions. Many also just lose interest in the other sports by HS. Mine also found baseball got a bit slow for them after the fast pace of hockey. Football has it's own issues, namely possiblity of injury prior to hockey season. Play them all as long as you can!
Good luck to all the kids in the "off" season. Enjoy the summer.
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:27 am
by InigoMontoya
Still looking for that elusive D-1 superstar that hung up his skates in March and dusted them off again in October.
Jeff Neilson Former Wild player... Many others up Nort don't start AAA hockey until Late in life... some not at all.. Not saying that they don't skate in the summer they and their parents just find other ways to develop hockey skills... including other sports.
I would say this is a true and factual statement. I would be willing to bet that the far majority of youth players in this state DON'T play AAA in the summer...but on the other hand, I would also be willing to bet that the far majority of D1 players DID play AAA or some other form of hockey training in the summer.
From an interview with little brother Kirk when he was at Harvard 15 years ago: "A hockey player since age four, Nielsen and older brother Jeff converted the basement of their home into a make-shift street hockey rink. " Doesn't sound like the stuff was getting dusty.
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:40 am
by InigoMontoya
Budish from Edina (football, hockey and baseball)
I think an important point can be made here - with Lee, as well. Those kids played multiple sports in high school, but they skated in the off season. Joe Mauer was a multisport athlete, but he continued to swing a baseball bat all year long. Wide-eyes beware: being a multisport athlete is not a 1-to-1 correlation with don't-skate-in-the-summer.
I'm guessing that most kids that are skating during the summer also have other activities - unlike HD41's kid, they don't skate 24/7; not even Muck's kids are skating 24/7 - that is an absurd statement to make about summer hockey. Just as absurd as making a statement that you will be a better hockey player in the winter by taking the spring, summer, and fall off.
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:47 am
by dogeatdog1
InigoMontoya wrote:Still looking for that elusive D-1 superstar that hung up his skates in March and dusted them off again in October.
Jeff Neilson Former Wild player... Many others up Nort don't start AAA hockey until Late in life... some not at all.. Not saying that they don't skate in the summer they and their parents just find other ways to develop hockey skills... including other sports.
I would say this is a true and factual statement. I would be willing to bet that the far majority of youth players in this state DON'T play AAA in the summer...but on the other hand, I would also be willing to bet that the far majority of D1 players DID play AAA or some other form of hockey training in the summer.
From an interview with little brother Kirk when he was at Harvard 15 years ago: "A hockey player since age four, Nielsen and older brother Jeff converted the basement of their home into a make-shift street hockey rink. " Doesn't sound like the stuff was getting dusty.
My point exactly.... He did however get the chance to play in the state tourney for golf and most likely caught a lunker walley off his dock too... so times have not changed and hockey 24 7 is not the right thing for most kids as even if they do they limit their exposure to other things and in the end as I said earlier in my post to HD41.. you and your kid will be playing softball looking at each other asking when the no check game is... My point is let the kids play other sports and keep the hockey stuff in the bag for a bit... you won't be able to stop the kids that are going to be D1 players from taking it out in the garage or basement or where ever you put it. They will get better despite you.
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:08 am
by StillAnEagle
Furthermore, what was required to accelerate in hockey 25 years ago when Neilson was in youth hockey is not near what is required today. Anyone seen clips of the North Stars in the early 80's? They look like a Junior Gold team from today.
InigoMontoya wrote:muckandgrind wrote:northwoods oldtimer wrote:
No sir it will not impact your kid at all. You are ahead of the curve and smarter than the herd
Is hockey the only sport where your chances of success INCREASE the less you train?
Doubtful.
Of course, don't take that to mean that by playing AAA you are GUARANTEEING you son/daughter a chance to play D-1, either....but it certainly doesn't hurt.
Still looking for that elusive D-1 superstar that hung up his skates in March and dusted them off again in October.
Jeff Neilson Former Wild player... Many others up Nort don't start AAA hockey until Late in life... some not at all.. Not saying that they don't skate in the summer they and their parents just find other ways to develop hockey skills... including other sports.
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:29 am
by HeShootsHeScores
HSHS, if you can't afford summer hockey, then don't do it. If, however, you don't feel you can afford the additional gas in your brand new Escalade, then you have a priority issue, and I'm guessing that the little shaver's post secondary matriculation is not very high on that list. Maybe we could stop with the Lucia quotes and paraphrases when trying to make a point about youth hockey.[/quote]
No Escalade here and Post Secondary is at the top of my list. And did I quote Lucia? I didn't mean to, I don't follow him or his quotes. Maybe I was not clear. I'm just wondering if people save the same amount of money for college that they throw at hockey.
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:33 am
by muckandgrind
dogeatdog1 wrote:InigoMontoya wrote:Still looking for that elusive D-1 superstar that hung up his skates in March and dusted them off again in October.
Jeff Neilson Former Wild player... Many others up Nort don't start AAA hockey until Late in life... some not at all.. Not saying that they don't skate in the summer they and their parents just find other ways to develop hockey skills... including other sports.
I would say this is a true and factual statement. I would be willing to bet that the far majority of youth players in this state DON'T play AAA in the summer...but on the other hand, I would also be willing to bet that the far majority of D1 players DID play AAA or some other form of hockey training in the summer.
From an interview with little brother Kirk when he was at Harvard 15 years ago: "A hockey player since age four, Nielsen and older brother Jeff converted the basement of their home into a make-shift street hockey rink. " Doesn't sound like the stuff was getting dusty.
My point exactly....
He did however get the chance to play in the state tourney for golf and most likely caught a lunker walley off his dock too... so times have not changed and hockey 24 7 is not the right thing for most kids as even if they do they limit their exposure to other things and in the end as I said earlier in my post to HD41.. you and your kid will be playing softball looking at each other asking when the no check game is...
My point is let the kids play other sports and keep the hockey stuff in the bag for a bit... you won't be able to stop the kids that are going to be D1 players from taking it out in the garage or basement or where ever you put it. They will get better despite you.
You can do all that and STILL let a kid play AAA hockey in the summer...those activites are not mutually exclusive.
I DO let my kids play other sports and do other things in the summer, we golf, go fishing, spend time up at the lake, got season tickets to the Twins....and yet they still love to get together with their buds and play AAA in the summer. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Wise
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:45 am
by northwoods oldtimer
HeShootsHeScores, you are doing a very good job of thinking the issue of AA hockey through. Not sure how old your kids are but when your kids do get to bantam and high school level there will be ample opportunity for them to play hockey. I would hate to see your kids burn out on one sport at 12 or 13. Some of the triple A programs have a potential for doing that. I know some folks who have had their kids in the Lake Superior Stars and the Northern Wings program and from what they mention about the program length and amount of games it sounds like good balance if one is seeking off season at the younger age levels. I still think your choice to stay local is a very good one and you are saving money to put to better use in the long run. Biggest concern for the kids sake should be the mental burnout of a super competitive winter season followed by same type of summer season.
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:40 pm
by HockeyDad41
InigoMontoya wrote:Budish from Edina (football, hockey and baseball)
I think an important point can be made here - with Lee, as well. Those kids played multiple sports in high school, but they skated in the off season. Joe Mauer was a multisport athlete, but he continued to swing a baseball bat all year long. Wide-eyes beware: being a multisport athlete is not a 1-to-1 correlation with don't-skate-in-the-summer.
I'm guessing that most kids that are skating during the summer also have other activities - unlike HD41's kid, they don't skate 24/7; not even Muck's kids are skating 24/7 - that is an absurd statement to make about summer hockey. Just as absurd as making a statement that you will be a better hockey player in the winter by taking the spring, summer, and fall off.
My kids play summer hockey, but they are also in little league baseball, play golf, camp, fish, bike ride, go swimming and a bunch of other stuff in the summer.
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:54 pm
by silentbutdeadly3139
HockeyDad41 wrote:InigoMontoya wrote:Budish from Edina (football, hockey and baseball)
I think an important point can be made here - with Lee, as well. Those kids played multiple sports in high school, but they skated in the off season. Joe Mauer was a multisport athlete, but he continued to swing a baseball bat all year long. Wide-eyes beware: being a multisport athlete is not a 1-to-1 correlation with don't-skate-in-the-summer.
I'm guessing that most kids that are skating during the summer also have other activities - unlike HD41's kid, they don't skate 24/7; not even Muck's kids are skating 24/7 - that is an absurd statement to make about summer hockey. Just as absurd as making a statement that you will be a better hockey player in the winter by taking the spring, summer, and fall off.
My kids play summer hockey, but they are also in little league baseball, play golf, camp, fish, bike ride, go swimming and a bunch of other stuff in the summer.
A 6' 3" 215 lbs little leaguer ? is his initials Danny Almonte ?
Again I think everyone is in violent agreement, except maybe machine parents who's kids want to play other sports but can't because hockey comes first. If your kid likes it, is not burnt out and you can afford to do it let them ... that goes for AAA, in season sports, fishing, camping or camps.
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:55 pm
by puckpride
HockeyDad41 wrote:InigoMontoya wrote:Budish from Edina (football, hockey and baseball)
I think an important point can be made here - with Lee, as well. Those kids played multiple sports in high school, but they skated in the off season. Joe Mauer was a multisport athlete, but he continued to swing a baseball bat all year long. Wide-eyes beware: being a multisport athlete is not a 1-to-1 correlation with don't-skate-in-the-summer.
I'm guessing that most kids that are skating during the summer also have other activities - unlike HD41's kid, they don't skate 24/7; not even Muck's kids are skating 24/7 - that is an absurd statement to make about summer hockey. Just as absurd as making a statement that you will be a better hockey player in the winter by taking the spring, summer, and fall off.
Do all of it! It will be over all too soon. Play everything and do everything you can now- cause in the end all you can contribute is meaningless posts!
My kids play summer hockey, but they are also in little league baseball, play golf, camp, fish, bike ride, go swimming and a bunch of other stuff in the summer.
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:40 am
by Mite-dad
silentbutdeadly3139 wrote:HockeyDad41 wrote:InigoMontoya wrote:
I think an important point can be made here - with Lee, as well. Those kids played multiple sports in high school, but they skated in the off season. Joe Mauer was a multisport athlete, but he continued to swing a baseball bat all year long. Wide-eyes beware: being a multisport athlete is not a 1-to-1 correlation with don't-skate-in-the-summer.
I'm guessing that most kids that are skating during the summer also have other activities - unlike HD41's kid, they don't skate 24/7; not even Muck's kids are skating 24/7 - that is an absurd statement to make about summer hockey. Just as absurd as making a statement that you will be a better hockey player in the winter by taking the spring, summer, and fall off.
My kids play summer hockey, but they are also in little league baseball, play golf, camp, fish, bike ride, go swimming and a bunch of other stuff in the summer.
A 6' 3" 215 lbs little leaguer ? is his initials Danny Almonte ?
Again I think everyone is in violent agreement, except maybe machine parents who's kids want to play other sports but can't because hockey comes first.
If your kid likes it, is not burnt out and you can afford to do it let them ... that goes for AAA, in season sports, fishing, camping or camps.
The potential danger in it is that they may not be burned out on it now, but by the time they are bantams or into HS they've lost their fire. Not saying every kid is that way, but how do you know if yours will of not?