HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

terrymoore1717 wrote:

DrGaf wrote:
For profit hockey will destroy what we have. The only reason Minnesota is what it is, is because of the community model. My god, I do not want to live in a world of Acheiver Academy Bauer-Emerson McBain Moore short STicked PUck heads.

Dr. G-you probalby forgot about this post. It ws a couple weeks back but just was called to my attention. I want to make sure no one inadvertantly identifies the Blades with the for-profits that are now coming to the scene.

My own opinon is that the two-year community model combined with the birth-year off season teams is MN's secret sauce. For example, over the 24 months he is a Peewee, little Johnny will compete as a younger player (first year) as a mid-aged player (AAA) and as an older player (second year). This creates three different situations and really helps development.

Fair enough ... I lumped all of the main suspects (read: conversation starters) in there. It's quite possible I was in a mood as well. The "hired-gun" mentality is what I was going after. I'm glad your PR department was able to correct this errant blog posting.

As to your secret-sauce, I agree whole-heartedly. The same kid is forced to (allowed to) grow in different roles if he so desires. My youngest is a July birthday. Personally, I believe he gets the best of it.

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:Mnhock you should read through entire posts before lashing out at one sentence in mine or others' opinion. Clearly pro BE and Tier 1 model for hockey development. But no matter how you try to convince yourself the academic side is at best untested and at worst dismal.

READ YOUR ENTIRE POST!

Are you talking BE or Tier 1 in general as far as dismal academics?
SSM has long proved to have world renowned academics and the jury is still out on BE results compared to traditional route. Not comparing the 2 as equals for sure and neither should you...All education models have a lot to do with quality and discipline of student and their parents to achieve success. Please don't try to convince me that our current public school system isn't failing many and is not recently trailing much of the developed world in results...

I was only speaking on BE, but while I'll give Shattuck credit where it's due, to say their academic program is "world renowned" is just laughable. I haven't even written off BEs academic quality (at least entirely) - only that its unproven, untested, and CLEARLY not the draw of the program. I'll let you have the last word. I just can't.

How are the BE teams doing this weekend ?

old goalie85 wrote:How are the BE teams doing this weekend ?

The 18's lost 6-3 to Dallas. The 16's pulled out as they didn't have enough players and probably not at the level of the other teams in the tourney.

I would be interested to hear how BE academics end up as well, as that is clearly not the focus of that program. As for bashing the public school system and comparing it to other developed nations, be careful. The free public education FOR ALL model is NOT what you have in many other countries. They compare their best and brightest tracked students to our entire high school population. Not that our system is perfect, but the other countries also do not usually link sports and school. I would tend to suggest comparing apples to apples (maybe states to states) not apples to oranges. If the focus of a 'school' is a sport, that doesn't mean they have poor academics, but world renowned? Really? hmmmm. No. On another note, most Tier1 programs have kids that are really part time students. Tier 2 and 3 often discourage or do not allow kids to take classes.

SSM has long proved to have world renowned academics

Silly comment. Totally not true.

hawkenjonny wrote:I would be interested to hear how BE academics end up as well, as that is clearly not the focus of that program. As for bashing the public school system and comparing it to other developed nations, be careful. The free public education FOR ALL model is NOT what you have in many other countries. They compare their best and brightest tracked students to our entire high school population. Not that our system is perfect, but the other countries also do not usually link sports and school. I would tend to suggest comparing apples to apples (maybe states to states) not apples to oranges. If the focus of a 'school' is a sport, that doesn't mean they have poor academics, but world renowned? Really? hmmmm. No. On another note, most Tier1 programs have kids that are really part time students. Tier 2 and 3 often discourage or do not allow kids to take classes.

hawkenjonny wrote:The free public education FOR ALL model is NOT what you have in many other countries.

Certainly not "free" for anyone who pays taxes...whether you use it or not.

Perhaps I should have said 'tuiton' free as the families that choose to attend private schools still pay state taxes. But again, that is their choice. If you do not feel that the quality of MN public education is a good investment, I encourage you to explore states with no income tax or countries where you pay for school, but only certain students are allowed to attend. Again not perfect...

hawkenjonny wrote:Perhaps I should have said 'tuiton' free as the families that choose to attend private schools still pay state taxes. But again, that is their choice. If you do not feel that the quality of MN public education is a good investment, I encourage you to explore states with no income tax or countries where you pay for school, but only certain students are allowed to attend. Again not perfect...

Minnesota ranks below some states without income tax - increased taxes don't automatically equate to quality education

hawkenjonny wrote:Perhaps I should have said 'tuiton' free as the families that choose to attend private schools still pay state taxes. But again, that is their choice. If you do not feel that the quality of MN public education is a good investment, I encourage you to explore states with no income tax or countries where you pay for school, but only certain students are allowed to attend. Again not perfect...

Aren't property taxes the main source of local revenue for public schools ?.....

Once again this thread has run off its track. These schools are about opportunity or perceived opportunity. An opportunity to do school in a different format. An opportunity to play hockey or train for hockey. I watched a bunch or tier 1 hockey this weekend. What I saw was a bunch of good hockey players from all over including MN. When I go to my first highschool gam, I will see a bunch of good hockey players from right here. This will not be a threat to the community model, just an opportunity for more kids to play. It's not about taxes, oppression, capitalism and evil white European males. Keep this about the horrors of a blended education, it's more fun to read!!

NLHockey wrote:Minnesota ranks below some states without income tax - increased taxes don't automatically equate to quality education

Those are score GAINS, not scores. This and this might be better resources for comparing standardized test scores. It's difficult to go up if you're already at the top.

With the exception of North Dakota, all of the states ahead of us for both tests are fairly heavily taxed.

NLHockey wrote:

hawkenjonny wrote:Perhaps I should have said 'tuiton' free as the families that choose to attend private schools still pay state taxes. But again, that is their choice. If you do not feel that the quality of MN public education is a good investment, I encourage you to explore states with no income tax or countries where you pay for school, but only certain students are allowed to attend. Again not perfect...

Minnesota ranks below some states without income tax - increased taxes don't automatically equate to quality education

Did you even bother reading what this chart portrayed before you posted it to support your argument? This is Test Score GAINS. This is not where each state ranks on test scores, if that is even an adequate way of measuring the school system. Look at the actual test scores, such as ACT composite scores, and MN ranked 10th in 2014, behind Mass, Conn, NH, Maine, NY, Delaware, Vermont, NJ and Washington.

According to your chart, Mississippi has the 13th best public education in the country.

Froggy Richards wrote:Did you even bother reading what this chart portrayed before you posted it to support your argument?

Do you even bother to read the last post before making a new post?

Seriously though, here's another chart using the same data. This is 8th grade math. MN is second only to MA.

observer wrote:

SSM has long proved to have world renowned academics

Silly comment. Totally not true.

Actually this is very true and not silly at all. We know about SSM because of hockey but SSM is a highly sought after school for other things, their Bioscience Center for Medicine is state of the art and world renowned, their Pre-Conservatory Music Program is phenominal as are many other academic areas. They gets kids from all over the world for all kinds of things other than hockey. If hockey went away tomorrow from Schattuck they wouldn't miss a beat and could still charge $40,000 and would fill the school. They have students from 25+ different countries attending school the majority of which do not play hockey.... Years ago I think it was still a great academic instituion but probably had a major hockey slant, that is no longer the case... you should visit there sometime, it's pretty phenominal the education the kids who attend there get.

Shattuck has about 440 kids. Seven hockey teams. Two and a half rinks. You take away hockey and the overhead from the ice rinks alone would kill it. Hockey barely kept the lights a few years ago when the school was bleeding money.

Actually this is very true and not silly at all. We know about SSM because of hockey but SSM is a highly sought after school for other things, their Bioscience Center for Medicine is state of the art and world renowned, their Pre-Conservatory Music Program is phenominal as are many other academic areas. They gets kids from all over the world for all kinds of things other than hockey. If hockey went away tomorrow from Schattuck they wouldn't miss a beat and could still charge $40,000 and would fill the school. They have students from 25+ different countries attending school the majority of which do not play hockey.... Years ago I think it was still a great academic instituion but probably had a major hockey slant, that is no longer the case... you should visit there sometime, it's pretty phenominal the education the kids who attend there get.

Cool. This is a hockey forum. Several hockey players have low test scores.

imlisteningtothefnsong wrote:Once again this thread has run off its track. These schools are about opportunity or perceived opportunity. An opportunity to do school in a different format. An opportunity to play hockey or train for hockey. I watched a bunch or tier 1 hockey this weekend. What I saw was a bunch of good hockey players from all over including MN. When I go to my first highschool gam, I will see a bunch of good hockey players from right here. This will not be a threat to the community model, just an opportunity for more kids to play. It's not about taxes, oppression, capitalism and evil white European males. Keep this about the horrors of a blended education, it's more fun to read!!

More kids to play ?

By an expensive, "private" type school option ?

Don't follow your logic with that statement.

JSR wrote:

observer wrote:

SSM has long proved to have world renowned academics

Silly comment. Totally not true.

Actually this is very true and not silly at all. We know about SSM because of hockey but SSM is a highly sought after school for other things, their Bioscience Center for Medicine is state of the art and world renowned, their Pre-Conservatory Music Program is phenominal as are many other academic areas. They gets kids from all over the world for all kinds of things other than hockey. If hockey went away tomorrow from Schattuck they wouldn't miss a beat and could still charge $40,000 and would fill the school. They have students from 25+ different countries attending school the majority of which do not play hockey.... Years ago I think it was still a great academic instituion but probably had a major hockey slant, that is no longer the case... you should visit there sometime, it's pretty phenominal the education the kids who attend there get.

I beat around SSM for a day a few years back (four, five). Was in town anyway, curiosity sake.

I was surprised by what a dump it is, non-hockey buildings-wise. Worn out, damaged, buildings, inside and out.

For the money asked, I wasn't impressed.

Maybe it's changed, don't know.

Puck, I can't speak for B.E., but I can tell you Achiever was not filled with lucky sperm club kids. It provided an opportunity for many kids to play whose association did not have a spot for. Many of the kids' parents worked at the school instead of writing big fat checks. My wife was one of those people. She traded her time for tuition and thus my 2 meatheads had a chance to play when otherwise may not have had the chance. Our family was not the only ones who gave very much of themselves for the kids to have a chance to have success in the classroom and on the ice. None of us felt what we were doing was a threat to the highschool system. I knew it would not be popular, but I have a best friend so I did not care. I don't know who is going to B.E. But I would imagine it is a reasonable cross section of W2's. I have said it before and echo it here, I don't care about the parents $$ or lack of it, just get as many kids skating as possible and skate for as long as possible. The look on a kids face when they hit the ice transcends Jr. Gold, Varsity, NA3, USHL, and yes even the sinister Dub. For the love of the game, just play!! Parents, just clap!!!!

imlisteningtothefnsong wrote:Puck, I can't speak for B.E., but I can tell you Achiever was not filled with lucky sperm club kids. It provided an opportunity for many kids to play whose association did not have a spot for. Many of the kids' parents worked at the school instead of writing big fat checks. My wife was one of those people. She traded her time for tuition and thus my 2 meatheads had a chance to play when otherwise may not have had the chance. Our family was not the only ones who gave very much of themselves for the kids to have a chance to have success in the classroom and on the ice. None of us felt what we were doing was a threat to the highschool system. I knew it would not be popular, but I have a best friend so I did not care. I don't know who is going to B.E. But I would imagine it is a reasonable cross section of W2's. I have said it before and echo it here, I don't care about the parents $$ or lack of it, just get as many kids skating as possible and skate for as long as possible. The look on a kids face when they hit the ice transcends Jr. Gold, Varsity, NA3, USHL, and yes even the sinister Dub. For the love of the game, just play!! Parents, just clap!!!!

Why/how did these associations you speak of not have spots for the kids ?

90 minute classes, 2 kids that can't sit still for 5 and did not qualify for tutors, due to their heritage..... Forget my kids, how many of the mega associations have enough spots for all the kids who wish to play??? Edina, like most, has only one varsity team, if you are one of the chosen ones great, if not, Puck, then what?? Stay there because you are loyal to the community hockey model??? Or go play somewhere else.... I say let the rich kid play, let the poor kid play, let the late bloomer play, 300, 500 in a graduating class and 20 skater rosters.... Yep, maybe room for some more options! If you don't like the options of blended online hockey schools, don't send your kid there. But stop telling the folks who do something different that their kids will end up in the what ever happened to....... Lots of kids skate in Minnesota and never end up in the big book of NHL stats, but do go on to live meaningful lives and love the game!!

imlisteningtothefnsong wrote:90 minute classes, 2 kids that can't sit still for 5 and did not qualify for tutors, due to their heritage..... Forget my kids, how many of the mega associations have enough spots for all the kids who wish to play??? Edina, like most, has only one varsity team, if you are one of the chosen ones great, if not, Puck, then what?? Stay there because you are loyal to the community hockey model??? Or go play somewhere else.... I say let the rich kid play, let the poor kid play, let the late bloomer play, 300, 500 in a graduating class and 20 skater rosters.... Yep, maybe room for some more options! If you don't like the options of blended online hockey schools, don't send your kid there. But stop telling the folks who do something different that their kids will end up in the what ever happened to....... Lots of kids skate in Minnesota and never end up in the big book of NHL stats, but do go on to live meaningful lives and love the game!!

A. Like it or not, "what ever happened to..." is the norm, not the exception, it seems to me, and as long as it's a public forum, anyone can state their opinion on anything, as it should be.
If there's a problem, the admins will handle it. The actual ones, not someone telling others what to post or not post.

B. I never said I liked or disliked "blended online hockey schools".

B. Rest of your reply. Gotcha, understood, makes sense. Thanks for the reply.