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Did you ever think that the Seniors/Captains might be the problem?

greenwayraider wrote:My big concern is that Rapids ends up hiring Clafton away from Greenway.

He wants it. I'd bet a good chunk of my life savings he is the guy.

Are you sure you want to make that bet?
From what I have heard he isn't going any where.
Yes he is a Rapids alumni but from a couple sources, they can sort out there own mess I'm not walkin in and dealing with that.
Especially when I know what I have and could have where I am.

I think the captain, yes even at the high school level, is over rated. Most of the kids have little clue and no experience on how to motivate or manage a locker room. I've seen it way to many times the C goes to the kids head and he becomes more of a nuisance than an asset. Or other kids become jealous because this kid is always telling them what to do. And you want to 17 year old trying to play "head games" by talking to a ref? You're wasting your time. Most refs would rather just deal with the coaches straight up then listen to a kid complain about another bad call. Yea I know, theres more to being a captain then just talking to the refs but my point is a good leader shouldn't need a C on their chest. A good leader just goes about it the right way and others see that and follow. They're not looking for the kid with the C, they're looking for the kid they often strive to be.

So as it relates to this topic. I don't expect many of these youngsters to be able to step up to the plate and convince a teammate not to drink. It's all on each kids themselves, monitored by their parents and while on the road monitored by the coaching staff

Is this topic beat to death yet? Let's give the great town of GR a break now.

boblee wrote:

greenwayraider wrote:My big concern is that Rapids ends up hiring Clafton away from Greenway.

He wants it. I'd bet a good chunk of my life savings he is the guy.

Didn't we fire him 2 years ago?

yesiplayedhockey wrote:I think the captain, yes even at the high school level, is over rated. Most of the kids have little clue and no experience on how to motivate or manage a locker room. I've seen it way to many times the C goes to the kids head and he becomes more of a nuisance than an asset. Or other kids become jealous because this kid is always telling them what to do. And you want to 17 year old trying to play "head games" by talking to a ref? You're wasting your time. Most refs would rather just deal with the coaches straight up then listen to a kid complain about another bad call. Yea I know, theres more to being a captain then just talking to the refs but my point is a good leader shouldn't need a C on their chest. A good leader just goes about it the right way and others see that and follow. They're not looking for the kid with the C, they're looking for the kid they often strive to be.

So as it relates to this topic. I don't expect many of these youngsters to be able to step up to the plate and convince a teammate not to drink. It's all on each kids themselves, monitored by their parents and while on the road monitored by the coaching staff

Is this topic beat to death yet? Let's give the great town of GR a break now.

Having been an assistant at the high school level for seven years, I could not agree more. There was little honor, acceptance or value in having a captain, other than to give a few players, their parents, and whomever a few minutes of fame. Often proved to be more of a hassle than value. Coach appointed tends to generate jealousy and apathy, with team elected, tended to be a popularity contest. Never had a year where the upside (peer leadership) outweighed the downside of going through the hassle.

I'd actually view them in a different order in terms of impact of keeping players out of trouble. I would have the players themselves first by a large margin, parents second by a ways, captains and teammates third and hockey coaches and mentors fourth.

That's not to say the coach has no responsibility at all In keeping players out of trouble, It takes a village, but there are others with more responsibility in my mind. Having the coach take the primary punishment may actually be the worst possible way of handling this from a life lessons perspective.

Is Klatt brother in law w/Gernander ?? Any chance Gernander coaches Rapids ?? That was a rumor going around FL arena.

They are brother in laws. Kenny coaches the Hartford WolfPack in the AHL I'm not sure if I see him leaving that to coach high school.

I would guess no as well... Thax

ndirishfighting wrote:Are you sure you want to make that bet?
From what I have heard he isn't going any where.
Yes he is a Rapids alumni but from a couple sources, they can sort out there own mess I'm not walkin in and dealing with that.
Especially when I know what I have and could have where I am.

You've got sources, I've got sources, every guy down the road has sources. We'll see how it plays out. It comes down to two things. Who wants it and who does Anne want?

yesiplayedhockey wrote:I think the captain, yes even at the high school level, is over rated. Most of the kids have little clue and no experience on how to motivate or manage a locker room. I've seen it way to many times the C goes to the kids head and he becomes more of a nuisance than an asset. Or other kids become jealous because this kid is always telling them what to do. And you want to 17 year old trying to play "head games" by talking to a ref? You're wasting your time. Most refs would rather just deal with the coaches straight up then listen to a kid complain about another bad call. Yea I know, theres more to being a captain then just talking to the refs but my point is a good leader shouldn't need a C on their chest. A good leader just goes about it the right way and others see that and follow. They're not looking for the kid with the C, they're looking for the kid they often strive to be.

So as it relates to this topic. I don't expect many of these youngsters to be able to step up to the plate and convince a teammate not to drink. It's all on each kids themselves, monitored by their parents and while on the road monitored by the coaching staff

Is this topic beat to death yet? Let's give the great town of GR a break now.

Grand Rapids has a captains council that is built to prepare kids for difficult situation in their captain role and to help guide them through leadership. You're right -- most people get the C and don't have a clue what that means, how to use or not use it, or more importantly what the heck a leader is supposed to do. The program that Rapids has put together for all of its sports captains is fantastic. Still, I don't and wouldn't expect a captain to make a statement after all of this. Especially with all of them moved on to the next stage in their hockey career.

As a great friend of mine likes to say: this too shall pass.

BobLee, i'm assuming AD has conducted a review of the existing captain training procedures as part of a broader overall lookback for learnings and future improvements.

boblee wrote:As a great friend of mine likes to say: this too shall pass.

Proctologist?

MNHockeyFan wrote:

goldy313 wrote:Underage drinking is a big deal, just because it is common doesn't make it OK, and certainly doesn't justify it.

A LONG TIME AGO, as a 9th grader, I was the last guy cut from my high school team. There was no JV, so I returned to my community's program for 14-15 year olds, which back then was called "midgets". Then, about two-thirds through the season, three guys were dismissed from the high school team after they were caught drinking. Back then that was the penalty for this offense - you were out for the rest of the season. But that was my ticket to varsity hockey, so even though the team wasn't as good with me and two other younger guys replacing three more experienced and talented upper classmen, we didn't complain. And the coach, to the best of my knowledge, was completely unaware of the drinking incident until it became known. So there was never even a thought of him losing his coaching position (and rightfully so, IMO).

Looking back now, and upon reading this story, goldy313's quote above struck home. Over the years, I don't know what led to the penalty being reduced from having to miss the rest of the season to just a few games, but I wonder what the effect would be if the penalty hadn't been reduced along the way? I assume that such a stiffer penalty would deter underage drinking by high school athletes, but to what degree?

I don't think that was ever the MSHSL policy for rule violations. I remember when it was 9 weeks,then 18 weeks,etc. HOWEVER that may have been your school's policy. Schools can(and do)have policies that are STRICTER than the minimum MSHSL policies on being caught for drinking,etc. No school can have a policy that is less than that. And for those who wonder I think the rule was changed because fall and spring sports were having students miss entire seasons while winter sports were not. And I also believe(just personal opinion here) that the MSHSL thought the penalty was too draconian for what (for a 1st time offense) was a mistake. Here are the Minimum MSHSL penalties for alcohol etc. MSHSL's Alcohol Policy

1st Offense: 2 weeks suspension or 2 contests, whichever is more*

2nd Offense: 3 weeks suspension or 6 contests, whichever is more

3rd Offense: 4 weeks suspension or 12 contests, whichever is more

*MSHSL does not differentiate between consumption and possession

A student can have a third offense reduced if they complete a treatment program and it it is verified by the head of a treatment center. There is also an additional 9 week penalty if the student denies the violation and is then found guilty of the violation. As stated earlier schools can(and do) have tougher penalties. For example Rochester has these penalties in place.

1st offense-50% of the season
2nd offense- 1 calendar year suspension
3rd offense-Permanent ban

These penalties are for consumption. The penalties for possession but not consumption are the same as the MSHSL.

Another rule the MSHSL got rid of was the in the presence of rule. That rule stated that if you were somewhere alcohol was present you were deemed to be in possession of the same and subject to penalties. IIRC this rule was eliminated because it was being enforced inconsistently across the state and various schools were ruling certain activities(like wedding dances( off limits due to alcohol being present. Another change(and one for the better IMHO) since I was in high school is the 12 month rule. Now students are subject to these rules 12 months a year. while I was in school the rules only applies during the school year(or until the sports season ended for spring sports that went past the end of the year) That meant there was about a 3 month window where violations could not be penalized.

The rule should be that the suspension has to take place in a sport you participated in the previous year. The fact that you can go out for Cross Country, and not give two rips about Cross Country, to serve the penalty is silly.

Section 8 guy wrote:The rule should be that the suspension has to take place in a sport you participated in the previous year. The fact that you can go out for Cross Country, and not give two rips about Cross Country, to serve the penalty is silly.

My junior year a friend got a minor in the spring. The next four track meets all got cancelled for rain and he was real nervous it would carry over into football season. It was the running joke that any day would start raining without any clouds in the sky!

More on the situation from Tony Scott at Youth Hockey Hub

http://www.youthhockeyhub.com/news_arti ... ferrer_id=

I can and can't believe what I heard on the video.

When I was in high school if that would have happend we would have brought him in the locker room and beat the crap out of him before his parentsor anyone else got a word in.
If it would have been in the beginning, middle or on the way to state we would of told him find your own way down. Your not getting on this bus.

This just amazes me.

Sources from the area Beau Giesler will more than likely not take it cause of work same goes for Chris Marinucci.

Section 8 guy wrote:The rule should be that the suspension has to take place in a sport you participated in the previous year. The fact that you can go out for Cross Country, and not give two rips about Cross Country, to serve the penalty is silly.

A lot of schools have the rule in place that you must remain out for a sport for the entire season for an ineligibility to be served to count. If you quit before the season is over it doesn't count and you must serve it again. The MSHSL(And to be honest pretty much every other high school association) wants penalties to be served as soon as possible and not allow kids who have penalties to be served to participate while they are pending.

19 of 22!!! Unbelievable!!!

I believe YHH received some bad info on this one. I heard a total of 4-5 players, and 2 of them were non-seniors.

The Next One wrote:19 of 22!!! Unbelievable!!!

Remember that Tony is just citing what he has heard. He doesn't have any more fact-based info than anyone else.

WestMetro wrote:BobLee, i'm assuming AD has conducted a review of the existing captain training procedures as part of a broader overall lookback for learnings and future improvements.

A good AD would be constantly reviewing the program. I trust that she is.

boblee wrote:

The Next One wrote:19 of 22!!! Unbelievable!!!

Remember that Tony is just citing what he has heard. He doesn't have any more fact-based info than anyone else.

Is his source the Onion?