HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

SpreadOut! wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 5:37 pm

headsupsticksdown wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 4:46 pm

SpreadOut! wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 3:33 pm

EP’s AA Peewee team went 11-33-2 last year. They got blown out of the arena against the top teams. Prior to the season, what would have been EP’s two best players—Crowley’s kid and the Sylvia kid (his dad played for Boston University)—“transferred,” with Crowley “transferring” to Tonka’s AA Peewee team and Sylvia “transferring back” to Chaska-Chan’s AA team (I guess he has always lived in the Chaska-Chan association boundaries but “transferred” to play for EP). The transferring at the youth level will be much worst next season, as Tonka and Maple Grove (both rosters filled with transfers) dominated AA Peewee last year, with Tonka beating MG in OT for the state title. You can bet other competitive youth associations will follow this formula next season.

Again, while EP might be competitive the next couple years at the high school level if they can prevent the flood gates from opening and their players from transferring elsewhere, the writing is on the wall: they are a dying program heading the way of former powerhouses Burnsville and Bloomington Jefferson—but EP will hit bottom faster, as the dynamics of hockey in Minnesota have changed with the transfer culture.

But get used to it, as nobody with power, including the MSHSL and Minnesota hockey, will do anything to stop the transferring, almost all of which is done on a fraudulent basis—with the transfers claiming to live at an address within the association/high school boundaries they are transferring to, but everyone knowing they don’t. Minnesota Hockey and the MSHSL then claim ignorance, saying “how can we police this?” Here’s an idea:Go and knock on the doors of the addresses these transfers claim to be living at. Hint: They will NOT be there. Then go and knock on the doors of their actual address where they transferred from. Hint: They WILL be there.

SO, I don't disagree with anything you've stated. It really depends on how people measure success. Getting specific with that Peewee team, the writing was on the wall. They lost 4 key players from that team that should've been back with 3 of them transferring out. It was a domino effect with the two players mentioned above but one factor that is forgotten is EP had no goalie at this level as they only had like 2 goalies for 5 teams and eded up having to get a goalie from out of town. This was a known issue that several, including the parents of the kids mentioned above screamed about. That ended up snowballing because if you don't have a goalie, how are you going to even field a team or if you do you end up on a team with who they believe to be top players and a below average goalie combined with the water cooler conversations at BA and what happened happened. It's water under the bridge, but what really should have been done is the association coming to terms with what was on their plate and opting to play down. This should have been the case for several teams in that association and what ended up happening? You had teams literally not winning a single game or finishing with a laughable record when they would have been more competitive and not crushed those kids confidence by being too stubborn about the letter game. This falls on the association just as much as it does those parents who choose to jump ship. The laughable thing is that Tonka team will then eventually lose 5-6 kids anyways but they have the numbers so it will be fine.

The different between where BJ and Burnsville are and where EP eventually might be headed is that EP still I believe will be a destination for kids transferring in. You don't see that at BJ or Burnsville, you will at EP so whether you like it or not they will still be in the mix at least how I see it. If they in fact do start opting to play down at some levels, this may deter some kids caught up in the letter game but we will see.

Good info. But what’s it say about the state of EP’s youth hockey association—and the future of the high school program—that they didn’t have enough goalies for the peewee level? That’s not a good sign of association health at all.

Curious as to why you see EP being able to recruit in transfers for the high school team. They are a net loser now, correct? Crowley’s older kid transferred from EP to Holy Family a couple years ago, of course without skipping a beat on his eligibility. Crowley must know a real good realtor!

(Admission for transparency: If I had any power, and I absolutely do not, I would absolutely be a brutal dictator on transferring, permanently sending to Siberia any family/player caught cheating, which is now widespread, with Minnesota Hockey fully aware of the problem and completely ignoring it, just like the MSHSL).

bardown27 wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 8:28 pm One thing I think people who say “EP won’t get as many transfers as you think” forget what Lincoln does for a living. Working for an advising group, who more or less shop their unhappy players around to other schools in the offseason (I’ve seen it first hand, not specifically with Hawkeye but advisor groups in general).

What’s going to deter all the advisors at Hawkeye from pushing the kids they advise that are unhappy with their current situation and guiding them to go play in EP for one of their colleagues?

headsupsticksdown wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 8:38 pm

bardown27 wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 8:28 pm One thing I think people who say “EP won’t get as many transfers as you think” forget what Lincoln does for a living. Working for an advising group, who more or less shop their unhappy players around to other schools in the offseason (I’ve seen it first hand, not specifically with Hawkeye but advisor groups in general).

What’s going to deter all the advisors at Hawkeye from pushing the kids they advise that are unhappy with their current situation and guiding them to go play in EP for one of their colleagues?

It won’t just be him either. Wait until staff is announced.

bardown27 wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 8:28 pm One thing I think people who say “EP won’t get as many transfers as you think” forget what Lincoln does for a living. Working for an advising group, who more or less shop their unhappy players around to other schools in the offseason (I’ve seen it first hand, not specifically with Hawkeye but advisor groups in general).

What’s going to deter all the advisors at Hawkeye from pushing the kids they advise that are unhappy with their current situation and guiding them to go play in EP for one of their colleagues?

SpreadOut! wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 10:42 pm

bardown27 wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 8:28 pm One thing I think people who say “EP won’t get as many transfers as you think” forget what Lincoln does for a living. Working for an advising group, who more or less shop their unhappy players around to other schools in the offseason (I’ve seen it first hand, not specifically with Hawkeye but advisor groups in general).

What’s going to deter all the advisors at Hawkeye from pushing the kids they advise that are unhappy with their current situation and guiding them to go play in EP for one of their colleagues?

Okay, but realize the state Minnesota hockey is in that you are publicly saying the new EP high school coach “works for an advising group that shops unhappy players around to other schools in the offseason.”

Seriously?! Is this a good thing?! You do realize that almost all these “transfers” do it fraudulently, right? They claim to live at an address in the boundaries of the high school/youth association they transfer to but ABSOLUTELY DO NOT. And the MSHSL and Minnesota Hockey 100% know it’s being done fraudulently but look the other way out of fear of being sued.

Not to keep picking on them, but did the Crowleys move twice in the past couple years so their high school age player could transfer from EP to Holy Family without losing eligibility (the younger one was playing for EP youth still) and then move again so their younger kid could play this past season for Tonka Peewee AA team?

This is all a giant farce.

bardown27 wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 11:13 pm

SpreadOut! wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 10:42 pm

bardown27 wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 8:28 pm One thing I think people who say “EP won’t get as many transfers as you think” forget what Lincoln does for a living. Working for an advising group, who more or less shop their unhappy players around to other schools in the offseason (I’ve seen it first hand, not specifically with Hawkeye but advisor groups in general).

What’s going to deter all the advisors at Hawkeye from pushing the kids they advise that are unhappy with their current situation and guiding them to go play in EP for one of their colleagues?

Okay, but realize the state Minnesota hockey is in that you are publicly saying the new EP high school coach “works for an advising group that shops unhappy players around to other schools in the offseason.”

Seriously?! Is this a good thing?! You do realize that almost all these “transfers” do it fraudulently, right? They claim to live at an address in the boundaries of the high school/youth association they transfer to but ABSOLUTELY DO NOT. And the MSHSL and Minnesota Hockey 100% know it’s being done fraudulently but look the other way out of fear of being sued.

Not to keep picking on them, but did the Crowleys move twice in the past couple years so their high school age player could transfer from EP to Holy Family without losing eligibility (the younger one was playing for EP youth still) and then move again so their younger kid could play this past season for Tonka Peewee AA team?

This is all a giant farce.

1. I never said the group he specifically works for shops unhappy players, just said I know from past experience that advisor groups in general do that.
2.Where did I ever say it was a good thing?
3. You can move schools/associations at a school grade change (usually 7th and 9th) without having to change residence. Assuming that’s what they did with the younger son, since MOST (not all) second year peewees are 7th graders, but would venture to guess they didn’t legitimately move for the older one to play at HF his senior year.

headsupsticksdown wrote: ↑Tue May 13, 2025 10:23 am There are definitely parents who refuse to see the writing on the wall but to the point of these advisors all having ill intensions, I do not believe that to be the case. Sure they make a living doing this type of work but it could simply be about a kid wanting to extend playing a game he/she loves. I do not fault a kid for wanting to push forward, nor do I discredit parents and or coaches/advisors or whomever else for providing a path to do so. I'm not talking about the NHL here a kid could simply want to play a few more years, who knows.

Back to the transfer situation. You want to look into the Tonka situation well it's easy to figure out what is going on. Said player has an older sister too who to my knowledge still went to and graduated from EPHS. You pull your kid out of what was believed to be a bad situation to a much much better team to win State, so be it. Again, no ill will. The BJ kid who also transferred in to Tonka is apparently going to HF for HS so he won't even play at Tonka after Bantams. Tonka will roll on but again you have a situation where you jump ship to play a few years on a good team and then end up jumping ship again. More than half of the graduating class at BA are supposedly going to HF so the knock on BA appears to be justified that the path is paved to get players to privates vs. going back to their home Associations. This isn't entirely BA's fault but you mean to tell me the guy who started BA being there, coaching that Tonka PWAA team and all of these kids then sliding in and joining for 1 or 2 seasons isn't a coincidence? So you have two cases here where a kid is going to play for 3 Associations in so many years. To further throw fuel onto the fire, the twin girls that were at Tonka then EPHS will now change to their 3rd location (HF) in so many years. Do I also need to bring up another high profile kid who is from Hastings then made his way to Woodbury, Edina, Shakopee and now another school? Keep in mind that you have kids from the same family in DIFFERENT associations from the same household. How is that possible? This is your point Spread and I agree. There is no question parents are bonkers but what rubs me worse is a kid who actually decides going to another association or school for a year or two is a better option than sticking with what most would say are his/her local neighborhood buddies. The BA situation can be debated since they hang around kids outside of their neighborhood but to grow up with kids in your town play together then jump ship says more about the kid than the parents and this assumes a kid has final sign off. As a parent I would NEVER even consider moving my kid unless they explicitly told me they wanted to do so and for a valid reason. Like nearly all kids mine have deal with their fair share of problems but not once have they ever said they wanted to play somewhere else. To me, this is a bigger problem these days. Kids and parents not wanting their kids the opportunity to work out issues head on.

SpreadOut! wrote: ↑Thu May 15, 2025 4:52 pm FYI related to this thread: Shakopee announced today that Mike Terwilliger is joining their coaching staff as an assistant.