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rainier2 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:54 pm Crap, I tried to copy the last post from the 7A thread here, but it didn't quite format the way I'd hoped.

Anyway, in response to the Hayward poster: I don't think anyone has a problem with you (or whoever) moving to Hermantown. It's a free country. But, why didn't this family choose Cloquet, or East, or Superior? All very good programs, and just as close, if not closer. Could it be they chose Hermantown because it's an almost guaranteed trip to state? Could it be Hermantown players get to play 99% of their hockey careers vs AA teams, then step down to A teams once HS playoffs start, thereby getting the tough competition and the social media accolades?

The problem is Hermantown being a suburb of the Duluth metro area, and thus drawing in a huge chunk of talent from there and other 7A places. They benefit from being in a AA-sized area, yet don't have to go up to AA because their own school is A-sized. It's the same loophole that the private schools used to employ when they were beating Hermantown in the A title games, and Hermantown fans were livid about it. Why is it okay for them to do what they used to rail against?

Hermantown belongs in AA, and until they move up, the huge amount of transfers and open enrollees will be an ongoing discussion topic.

Yoopskater wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:21 pm Lots of whining, but not seeing it emanating from Hermantown...

Pertyboy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:23 pm Once again you have a problem. Hermantown only has 650 kids enrolled. You cannot go by enrollment
Virginia, Hibbing snd the likes have almost double Hermantowns enrollment.making it 3 classes solves nothing

Pertyboy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:23 pm Once again you have a problem. Hermantown only has 650 kids enrolled. You cannot go by enrollment
Virginia, Hibbing snd the likes have almost double Hermantowns enrollment.making it 3 classes solves nothing

zooomx wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:16 pm

Pertyboy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:23 pm Once again you have a problem. Hermantown only has 650 kids enrolled. You cannot go by enrollment
Virginia, Hibbing snd the likes have almost double Hermantowns enrollment.making it 3 classes solves nothing

Ummm... yeah there would be no way Hermantown or similar programs would be willing to stay in the bottom class in a 3 class system.

Pertyboy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:23 pm Once again you have a problem. Hermantown only has 650 kids enrolled. You cannot go by enrollment
Virginia, Hibbing snd the likes have almost double Hermantowns enrollment.making it 3 classes solves nothing

Pertyboy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:15 pm I am not defending Hermantown or any other school, the point is if you use enrollment to oust Hermantown you achieve nothing, they have similar numbers to the other schools. If you want them out so you dont have to compete against them then rank the teams and go back to tier 2 hockey.Or the other option...find a way for kids to stay at their own program

rainier2 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:42 pm

zooomx wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:16 pm

Pertyboy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:23 pm Once again you have a problem. Hermantown only has 650 kids enrolled. You cannot go by enrollment
Virginia, Hibbing snd the likes have almost double Hermantowns enrollment.making it 3 classes solves nothing

Ummm... yeah there would be no way Hermantown or similar programs would be willing to stay in the bottom class in a 3 class system.

That's a hefty assumption. Hermantown routinely beats/plays tight with the AA champ every year and they don't move up, so why would they ever move up in any situation? Winning state would just become easier, which is what the Hawks' powers-that-be are interested in. They can still play an all AA (or AAA) schedule from squirts through HS playoffs, then stack trophies vs rural teams.

I hope the Hermantown AD doesn't get wind of this 3rd class idea, she'll be the first one in line to sign up!

Section 8 guy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:03 pm It’s a real stretch to say the 3 classes idea is a no brainer for any reason. I’d suspect that that version probably works well for you in your corner of the world......but as you say.....the same problems you are trying to solve would still exist, just in a different spot in the food chain. Plus it creates new ones.....like further watering down the overall product.

There is always going to be teams at the bottom, no matter how many classes you make. It’s far easier, and better, to try to come up with ways to deal with the problems you currently face. An extreme relegation system that would require Hermantown to move up would be better, as one example.

defense wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:27 am Still having this discussion? Hermantown is playing by the rules. Why hate? Just beat them

kniven wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:54 pm

defense wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:27 am Still having this discussion? Hermantown is playing by the rules. Why hate? Just beat them

Agreed. Hermantown is playing by the rules. Fans statewide, generally speaking, can’t stand that program. I have witnessed several times over the years. Fans throughout the state can’t stand that program. Instead of respect, that program is laughed at/mocked. Yes, they win all the time.”you are your own worst enemy”. Hermantown hockey program is their own worst enemy. Compete in AA playoffs in youth hockey (small enrollment) moved down to A playoffs in high school (small enrollment). Perception is everything. And Hermantown hockey’s perception is very small. But you are winning and a feeder program to UMD hockey. Priorities. What’s important. Winning and Div1 players. I’ve got to admit. A great system. The best of everything except for perception. If a program like Hermantown went to AA. They would still win. They would still be pipeline/feeder to UMD. Their perception would be good. Competing with Grand Rapids and Duluth East in the section playoffs would be difficult.

I once new a guy who’s perception with others was that he was a prick. But. He was rich. He won because he had more money than all the locals in the small town they lived in. He employed many people who couldn’t stand him. But he gave them jobs. They put up with it, the locals, because he gave them jobs. The other towns and bigger cities in the area couldn’t stand him either, but they had jobs. So they didn’t have to toe that line. People who didn’t have jobs would move to his small town on the promise he would employ them. Others would lose there job to the new person in town. But the other locals weren’t concerned. They didn’t want to lose their jobs. His company received many awards. But only the people who had jobs were happy. It’s all about jobs. He had no concern for people he didn’t employ. Why should he. Being liked, respected, and appreciated by people not employed by him was never a concern. He did things his way. If you don’t like it than leave. Nobody ever left unless they were let go for someone he liked better moving into town.

People often told him to move his operation to a city. And do what you do for a city and make things better for more people. He said no. And people new in the town and outside the town that he loved the control he had in his town. He would never give that up just because others though so. He lived his life out beloved by the people he employed in his town. Everyone else was no concern to him. For he knew a person should only focus on what you can control and not on concerns, especially concerns of others.

kniven wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:54 pm

Agreed. Hermantown is playing by the rules.

Fans statewide, generally speaking, can’t stand that program. ***

Yes, they win all the time. ****

Compete in AA playoffs in youth hockey (small enrollment) moved down to A playoffs in high school (small enrollment)*****

defense wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:27 am Still having this discussion? Hermantown is playing by the rules. Why hate? Just beat them

rainier2 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:17 pm

defense wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:27 am Still having this discussion? Hermantown is playing by the rules. Why hate? Just beat them

Why hate? Here's a few reasons:

A program that plays AA from squirts through HS regular season, beats/plays tight with the AA champ every year, and has arena rafters that sag under the weight of single A banners, yet it's still not enough to move up. Greed

A program whose coach and fans complained loudly about metro privates drawing top talent from AA-sized areas yet having enrollments small enough to qualify for A, yet now they are doing the exact same thing themselves. Hypocrisy

A program whose exploitation of the rules has distorted reality for expectations of Class A teams, hence we see clueless statements like "just beat them". TRF, Luverne, I-Falls, LF, Eveleth, etc., don't have the 200,000 people just a relative short drive away so they can re-stock with all-stars every year. What type of A team can "just beat them"? Greenway needed to add three late transfers to their best team in twenty years to do it, SCC needed to draw all the top talent from a metro area of 150,000, EGF needed to be a suburb of an area of 100,000 to do it, and Alexandria needed to be on the cusp of AA enrollment and face hands-down the worst Hermantown team in years to do it. Fueling the erosion of community loyalty and hockey in small towns

Lou Nanne, Mike McGraw, Mark Parrish, Scott Pionk, and even Hermantown's current head coach didn't believe the answer was "just beat them". They said "Hermantown should be in AA." Decision makers at Hermantown remain unmoved. Tone deaf

Farting in a full elevator, making fun of the handicapped behind their backs, and handing out apples for Halloween aren't against the rules either. But does that mean you should you do them?

rainier2 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:17 pm

defense wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:27 am Still having this discussion? Hermantown is playing by the rules. Why hate? Just beat them

Why hate? Here's a few reasons:

A program that plays AA from squirts through HS regular season, beats/plays tight with the AA champ every year, and has arena rafters that sag under the weight of single A banners, yet it's still not enough to move up. Greed

A program whose coach and fans complained loudly about metro privates drawing top talent from AA-sized areas yet having enrollments small enough to qualify for A, yet now they are doing the exact same thing themselves. Hypocrisy

A program whose exploitation of the rules has distorted reality for expectations of Class A teams, hence we see clueless statements like "just beat them". TRF, Luverne, I-Falls, LF, Eveleth, etc., don't have the 200,000 people just a relative short drive away so they can re-stock with all-stars every year. What type of A team can "just beat them"? Greenway needed to add three late transfers to their best team in twenty years to do it, SCC needed to draw all the top talent from a metro area of 150,000, EGF needed to be a suburb of an area of 100,000 to do it, and Alexandria needed to be on the cusp of AA enrollment and face hands-down the worst Hermantown team in years to do it. Fueling the erosion of community loyalty and hockey in small towns

Lou Nanne, Mike McGraw, Mark Parrish, Scott Pionk, and even Hermantown's current head coach didn't believe the answer was "just beat them". They said "Hermantown should be in AA." Decision makers at Hermantown remain unmoved. Tone deaf

Farting in a full elevator, making fun of the handicapped behind their backs, and handing out apples for Halloween aren't against the rules either. But does that mean you should you do them?