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What do you think about the move?

I dont know, they'll have a better shot at state tourney playing a weaker schedule while Roseau and Moorhead will fight for the section 8AA title for the next few years.

The "big 3" just became the "big 4"

They aren't exactly moving down, they are choosing not to move up. Subtle difference. My guess is that anyone not the Spuds or Rams from 8AA would move down if they could.

HShockeywatcher wrote:They aren't exactly moving down, they are choosing not to move up. Subtle difference. My guess is that anyone not the Spuds or Rams from 8AA would move down if they could.

Hmm... Rams could. Why don't they?

Joey (nine toes) Marcoux wrote:The "big 3" just became the "big 4"

No, its has always and will always be the big two, The Rams and The Spuds....

Rams don't because they have always felt they could play for the true state championship, not "A", or Tier II, or "B"...

If Bemidji and Apollo both move to "A", will some other team be moved into Section 8??

I said anyone not named the Rams or Spuds and your response in that the Rams could? Hmmm...

I personally think they're just tryin to take an easier way to get to state. Sure their enrollment qualifies them for A, but many other schools who have half the enrollment they do still opt up. Sure Roseau and others could stay down, even AHA could(unless there is some policy so they can't) but they would rather show some balls to get to state the tougher way. True A schools don't have as many people in their school as Bemidji does. I think they figure MAYBE they can make it to state goin the A route. I think it's a pretty sissy move on their part, no matter if it was the players' choice or the coach's or whoever.

GophyFan18 wrote:I personally think they're just tryin to take an easier way to get to state. Sure their enrollment qualifies them for A, but many other schools who have half the enrollment they do still opt up. Sure Roseau and others could stay down, even AHA could(unless there is some policy so they can't) but they would rather show some balls to get to state the tougher way. True A schools don't have as many people in their school as Bemidji does. I think they figure MAYBE they can make it to state goin the A route. I think it's a pretty sissy move on their part, no matter if it was the players' choice or the coach's or whoever.

Are you for real? The cut off is where it is for a reason. There is no shame in playing at the level that you are supposed to be playing at.

Bemidji plays a schedule which includes both A and AA schools. They have had little success against either class schools during the past 10 years. I doubt that it will be any easier for them in A than it was in AA.

HShockeywatcher wrote:I said anyone not named the Rams or Spuds and your response in that the Rams could? Hmmm...

Yeah, thats what I said. Didn't understand? The Rams dont dominate 8AA. They could move down but dont. I asked you why do you think they dont?

They're not a bad AA team, I just think that they don't see that they can get by Roseau or Moorhead. They had the 3rd seed in their section, do you think they need to move down when they're better than 6 other teams? They have been AA for a long time, as long as I can remember anways. I guess I just don't see the need to play A hockey when they aren't that bad of a AA team. Just a better chance of making it to state, but for the wrong reason.

I can't see Bemidji playing Bagley for the section title , something is wrong here ????


BUZZ

If Bemidji moves down I would love to see someone like Elk River moved back into 8AA, it would make for much more interesting discourse than the Roseau v. Moorhead argument every year.

Is this an absolute sure thing? I talked to someone fairly close to Bemidji hockey last night and said the AD was still looking at it. They won't go to the "SHOW" anymore at A than AA until they get their youth hockey situation in a much better direction. My first post. This needed to be said. Keep Section 8 "Up North" somehow.

Looking at the Minnhock state tournament history page- since 1945, teams that qualify to play in A right now, have won the "big" state championship over 1/2 the time. I don't feel that the level of play between the TOP teams in AA is much different than the TOP teams in A.

grindiangrad-80 wrote:Looking at the Minnhock state tournament history page- since 1945, teams that qualify to play in A right now, have won the "big" state championship over 1/2 the time.

The circumstances have changed a great deal from today's HS hockey as compared to most of the years you are focusing on above. Smaller schools from the north dominated for many years because they had distinct advantages that overcame their lack of population. Those past advantages have been pretty much nullified these days.

Gopher Blog wrote:

grindiangrad-80 wrote:Looking at the Minnhock state tournament history page- since 1945, teams that qualify to play in A right now, have won the "big" state championship over 1/2 the time.

The circumstances have changed a great deal from today's HS hockey as compared to most of the years you are focusing on above. Smaller schools from the north dominated for many years because they had distinct advantages that overcame their lack of population. Those past advantages have been pretty much nullified these days.

You are probably right on that. Ifalls and Eveleth did dominate back then. However, I still think teams like GR, Greenway, Roseau, Hibbing, Duluth Marshall, Hermantown, STA, Warroad, and several others, can usually compete with the best in AA. ( I'm not saying they are better- just saying they can give anyone in the state a game on a given night.) I do hear where you are coming from though.

Yes this is a sure thing and its absolutley ridiculous

We finally do get our youth hockey straightend around and they go and do this sissy crap.

If you look at the past we could never have beat Thief and Warroad anyway and now at the youth level we are beating them and we are also beating Roseau and Moorhead. So the timing of the thing just makes no sense at all to me.

The coach basically let the players he has now make the decision.

Neutron 14 wrote:

HShockeywatcher wrote:I said anyone not named the Rams or Spuds and your response in that the Rams could? Hmmm...

Yeah, thats what I said. Didn't understand? The Rams dont dominate 8AA. They could move down but dont. I asked you why do you think they dont?

You've asked twice and gotten no reply because the answer is so obvious. They want to play the best teams in the state. Having won 6 state titles taking on the best competition, they'd find much less to celebrate in a class A title won while avoiding Moorhead, AHA, Duluth East, Edina, etc. They'd hate to be holding a trophy at the end of the year and asking "what if", as many in Warroad must have been doing after 2005.

Some of you do not know much about Bemidji hockey and its history.

WASafan certainly knows the current history of the bantam / peewee levels. Roseau may have a slight edge on Bemidji at bantams, but not so much Roseau cannot be beat. In fact Bemidji has beat them an dsome say tehy ahve the better team. Bemidji's bantam team is better thatn Moorhead, Grand Rapids, Brainerd. Personally I put them 3rd behind DEast and Roseau.
The pee-wees are better than both Moorhead and Roseau with only Dultuh East being better (my opinion).
So the youth program is fine at least through pee-wees. Personally I do not think squirts can be ranked.

As for the longer history from 1997 - 2001 the Lumberjacks were in the thick of things. with seed from 2 - 3 every year. Twice in that time frame finishing second in sections. Clearly better than most or all of the single A teams in Section 8A.

After that Bemidji should have had a run at state but kids left for juniors. Several of them, including one of the best goal tenders in D1 hockey today (a Hobey canidate).
Those years were not good, followed by a couple of down years in terms of talent.
05 & 06 the team was comprisedof young players. This year tehy were #3 or #4 in the section, but an average team with some good games and some bad games. They lacked discipline, especially in the D zone.

They will compete for a shot at state in the next two years at single A.
Should they be AA. I think so. But I think Hibbing, Hermantown, D Marshall, Apollo, East Grand Forks and Thief River Falls should be too. Probably others as well.

The MSHSL is very good with numbers in HS grades 10 to 12. Evaluating a hockey program is very different, complex and impossible to quantify using any formula. So AA and A are not resulting in good programs vs not so good programs. That was done and was called Tier 1 & 2.

Now we ahve a program based on size of a school. Another method hard but not impossible to define. It does not give rise to the best in one and the not so good in the other. Obviously, the bigger the program teh better chance of having a good team. The smaller schools that opr up have some reason for believing they can compete with larger schools.

Next year Roseau will be the class of 8AA (depending on who is moved where). Bemidji would compete with all the rest (including Moorhead) and maybe give Roseau a test come play-offs.
But there are single A schools capale of doing this every year.

What's the answer?
To me it is simple.
8 sections with equal number of teams per section (approximately).
Big schools play off at year-end. Small schools play off at year.
Top 16 (8 sectons - one big, one small) go off to state where they are seeded by some method and the tournament starts on Tuesdau (if need
be) or Wednesday (as it does now).

Name change to Brrrmidji Chicken Ships in 2008

A or AA it is a big deal when you can win and play more games. If Bemidji was single A right now and where fortunate enough to get to the X it would mean more games played more player development. Not a big deal for one year but it all starts at the youth level. Moorhead/ Roseau play 3 games districts 3 games regions three games state year in and year out. When they added the B tourney it meant that they sent their B teams also. If you look the same schools generally send the same A and B teams. that's 9 games per year per team or 36 games by H.S. That is a big deal. Bemidji would not make state this year in A in my Opinion but if they can keep playing I say let em. I liked the one tourney system better, however I cannot argue that the smaller schools kids benifit some by the A/AA system. You want to develop and get better as a program. Bemidji is very good in youth hockey right now. It is a shame they can't compete in AA, however they do not play in Moorhead's district in youth. Who knows if they even could get to state in years to come.