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Who got hosed in the select 15's?
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:09 pm
by Hockeyguy_27
Invariably every year, the coaches who are picking these teams and don't know the talent omit great players who have bad tryouts. Which good players were left of the list this year?
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:59 pm
by selloutcrowd99
CUTSHALL ON D6
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:58 pm
by GR3343
Check out the IR district and you tell me.
Question
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:57 pm
by HockeyFan55
If they don't have good tryouts and aren't picked, but had either a great season, or are the 'outstanding' players, why have tryouts?
Someone can just pick the best players.
Re: Question
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:38 pm
by GR3343
HockeyFan55 wrote:If they don't have good tryouts and aren't picked, but had either a great season, or are the 'outstanding' players, why have tryouts?
Someone can just pick the best players.
Tell that to the goalie from Virginia who had/is all of the above. He had a great season for Virginia Bantam A, had a very good tryout(in my opinion, he outplayed ALL goalies there) and in my opinion, is an outstanding player. Pretty bitter pill to have to swallow when minds are made up heading into a "tryout".
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:43 am
by HockeyRocks1
Selects is just that a selected few whom's ice time is paid for by the one's screwed/invited.
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:18 pm
by GR3343
HockeyRocks1 wrote:Selects is just that a selected few whom's ice time is paid for by the one's screwed/invited.
Never used to think like that, but after what I've seen and heard this year, starting to agree with you.
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:00 am
by HockeyRocks1
In other parts of the country Selects are truely the best performers over a three day period. They have a tryouts with indepentent evaluators. Here it seems as if the coaches buddies kids and players have first option.
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:25 am
by boardguy1998
HockeyRocks1 wrote:In other parts of the country Selects are truely the best performers over a three day period. They have a tryouts with indepentent evaluators. Here it seems as if the coaches buddies kids and players have first option.
Wow, you and GR3343 are really bitter. Couldn't it just be that the evaluators thought your kid wasn't good enough on that day. Maybe the kid had a bad day or two. Not every kid that didn't make it got screwed, some just weren't as good as others during tryouts.
Amen
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:25 am
by northwoods oldtimer
Wow, you and GR3343 are really bitter. Couldn't it just be that the evaluators thought your kid wasn't good enough on that day. Maybe the kid had a bad day or two. Not every kid that didn't make it got screwed, some just weren't as good as others during tryouts.[/quote]
Could not agree with you more on this boardguy. Could Minnesota Hockey do a better job setting up evaluation....yes. But under the current structure some kids have great tryouts and some do not. If you guys are bitter about the process take a step back and look at the plus to NOT making it. Yes the plus side of it. We all deal with set back it is just part of life and most great success has been acheived from adversity. Sad to say that is the way we are all wired we simply get better from hard knocks. You boys most likely have some real good people in your programs and community to help you improve, tap into those resource as these folks are always interested in helping out, it is what motivates them. So you guys should look to get some input or mentoring from these types of individuals. Surround yourselves with positive people and all of the sudden your lot gets a wholelot better. There are 2 sides to any setback for all of us it a great choice to have. It is up to you guys to ask yourselves what you can do to improve. There are tons of opportunities out there to reach for you young guys so get busy at getting better! It really is the way to go and many folks around you are more than willing to help out.
post 7748
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:29 pm
by boblee
In some programs you don't have to look far. You have a high school kid or two in most programs that have enough hockey sense to coach at the high school level right now. Also, in a lot of programs, you have former D1 players, even former NHL'ers. I know in Grand Rapids, a player who was a senior on the hockey team this year is helping out. He is coaching the girls varsity spring league team, and doing quite a bit of personal training this summer (both on and off the ice). I agree with Northwoods Oldtimer here. Tap into any resource possible, even for the kids who made the team, it will help to hone skills for the upcoming season.
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:26 pm
by HockeyRocks1
I don't have a kid that's even close to being able to play select 15. I just know the process in other parts of the country are more unbiased then ours. I've viewed some of the tryouts and results of and would have to unbiasedly say we could do a much better job.
We in Minnesota often question what's wrong with Minnesota hockey. Maybe we should do a better job of looking around the country to see what others are doing and follow what's working.
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:27 pm
by GR3343
boardguy1998 wrote:HockeyRocks1 wrote:In other parts of the country Selects are truely the best performers over a three day period. They have a tryouts with indepentent evaluators. Here it seems as if the coaches buddies kids and players have first option.
Wow, you and GR3343 are really bitter. Couldn't it just be that the evaluators thought your kid wasn't good enough on that day. Maybe the kid had a bad day or two. Not every kid that didn't make it got screwed, some just weren't as good as others during tryouts.
My problem doesn't lie in the making or not making a team. Just let the process be honest and fair. Honest is the first thing out the window closely followed by fair when it comes to local districts picking their own teams. When kids make select teams as a given, that's when I have a problem with it. Not a single person could ever look me in the eye and tell me there isn't political bs going on in virtually every local hockey program. As far as tapping into local resources, it's very hard to trust someone when the political crap has gone on for years. It's a shame to say, but in my personal experience, we've seen better treatment away from home. We've gotten honest answers and honest evaluations. It's too bad somewhere along the line, people have gotten away from letting the best players play. All too often it's a son or a friend of a son who gets the benefit of the doubt. You pick my kid this year and I'll pick yours next. The bigger losers in that respect are those players unfairly chosen. So Old Timer, you're right in that regard because when daddy's no longer the coach or his pal isn't there to rubber stamp you and you have to actually earn it, most won't know how to respond. The kid (if they persevere)who's gotten the short end most of his brief career, will most likely rise above. But ONLY if it's honest and fair.
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:54 pm
by Hockeyguy_27
HockeyRocks1 wrote:I don't have a kid that's even close to being able to play select 15. I just know the process in other parts of the country are more unbiased then ours. I've viewed some of the tryouts and results of and would have to unbiasedly say we could do a much better job.
We in Minnesota often question what's wrong with Minnesota hockey. Maybe we should do a better job of looking around the country to see what others are doing and follow what's working.
I couldn't agree more. For some reason, over the past several years, the select 15's have been notoriously off the mark. Selections seem to make more sense at the 16's and 17's.
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:32 pm
by soup21
Does the teams that are in the higher (winners) brackets at this weekends tournament have a huge advantage over the others? are the teams in the losers bracket gonna get evaluators at their games too or how does this work?
post 7764
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:27 pm
by boblee
One thing I do agree with, is each district team should be chosen by personel not within the district.
Good Point
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:32 pm
by northwoods oldtimer
I agree with you on that boblee. That would be a nice sanity check on parents and as well limit any such bias. Let's face it we all have bias, there is no getting around that. boblee's suggestion would at least temper that bias a bit more.
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:39 pm
by D16Dad
Final cuts should be announced at the rink, not phone calls the following evening. Make the cuts in front of everyone, prevents horsetrading between the coaches/evaluators and the kids can better judge how they did.
Nope
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:07 pm
by northwoods oldtimer
D16 Dad I would not go that route based on what I have read on the forum the past couple of years. Some parents get way too out of control emotionally on the cuts.
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:05 pm
by D16Dad
It can be an opportunity to evaluate the parents then as well...
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:49 pm
by whockeyguy
A few years ago in Bemidij for select 16 i witnessed a goalie that did not show up for Sat tryout and then proceeded to let in 8 goals in his half of play.. i also seen 3 other goalies that let in 3,3,and 4 goals in both days, Guess who got picked , thats right the one that let in the 8,, now try to tell me that they look at ALL the kids in tryouts, these coaches want there picks and who they have buddied up all year with,, that way they dont make enemies out there, but who pays the kids..... ITS a joke and the sooner the kids and parents see it and stop paying the money to support it the better,
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:05 pm
by elliott70
Again, ignorance rules.
Those that are bitter for one reason or another have personal bias.
Saying you do not is what makes it obvious you do. ALL people have bias.
Ovrelooking your bias is difficult, especially when you do not your own bias.
The system does not make monye for MN Hockey or anyone.
USA Hockey runs and approves systems used in the selct program. MN Hockey participates in all USA Hockey efforts to make the programs better. If you are not aware of this fact, then you are ignorant. Ignorance can be overcome. Stupitidy is ths failure to lessen your ignorance.
Selcet 16 picks can be (and are) pre-made by USA Hockey personnel. A goalie at the Bemdiji try-out may very well have been pre-chosen (I have no knowledge of this as I have little input in 16 & 17 levels).
But to by-pass this opportunity becasue you believe there may be politics involved is stupidity. Offering such advice to people goes beyond stupidity and violates any ethical fiduciary responsibiltiy to people you are advising.
Bringing in outside dsitrict advisors may seem like a good idea, but from where and at what cost?
District 15 personnel know alot about District 16 bantam players.
Negative attitudes without positive solutions are meaningless and destructive. Positive solutions without effort are worthless.
Some threads are designed, others flow to not being worth much.
Those with negative attitudes and nothing else, take your ball and go home.
Those with ideas but no work ethic, pass them on to the workers, but your right to complain has diminished.
For all you positive, hard workers, sorry you had to get to here to realize you can ignore this post.
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:27 pm
by donkeykong
Well said elliot70!!
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:44 pm
by PuckTime
donkeykong wrote:Well said elliot70!!
Yeah, that's right, I forgot that Elliot knows and is right about everything.
Or, were you just voicing your opinion like everyone else on this post?
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:09 pm
by GR3343
elliott70 wrote:Again, ignorance rules.
Those that are bitter for one reason or another have personal bias.
Saying you do not is what makes it obvious you do. ALL people have bias.
Ovrelooking your bias is difficult, especially when you do not your own bias.
The system does not make monye for MN Hockey or anyone.
USA Hockey runs and approves systems used in the selct program. MN Hockey participates in all USA Hockey efforts to make the programs better. If you are not aware of this fact, then you are ignorant. Ignorance can be overcome. Stupitidy is ths failure to lessen your ignorance.
Selcet 16 picks can be (and are) pre-made by USA Hockey personnel. A goalie at the Bemdiji try-out may very well have been pre-chosen (I have no knowledge of this as I have little input in 16 & 17 levels).
But to by-pass this opportunity becasue you believe there may be politics involved is stupidity. Offering such advice to people goes beyond stupidity and violates any ethical fiduciary responsibiltiy to people you are advising.
Bringing in outside dsitrict advisors may seem like a good idea, but from where and at what cost?
District 15 personnel know alot about District 16 bantam players.
Negative attitudes without positive solutions are meaningless and destructive. Positive solutions without effort are worthless.
Some threads are designed, others flow to not being worth much.
Those with negative attitudes and nothing else, take your ball and go home.
Those with ideas but no work ethic, pass them on to the workers, but your right to complain has diminished.
For all you positive, hard workers, sorry you had to get to here to realize you can ignore this post.
I'd like to meet with you elliot, you seem to know all there is to know about everything relating to Minn Hockey. I was led to believe that this was an opinion dominated forum. One with which a person voiced his opinion on various topics. Some people may agree with, some people may not. Obviously I was misled in my thinking. It appears we should all treat this like a board meeting and take notes on how to offer our opinions, er, should I say factual statements. Sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities, elliot. We'll all try to get on the right path as not to waste your time.