If we had a single-class, 16-team tourney...
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:42 pm
There have been various plans circulating around here for the past few weeks on how the tournament should be organized, ranging from banning privates to going back to one class to forcing various schools to opt up. I decided to see how a 1-class, 16-team tourney would work out. I'm not saying this is necessarily any better or worse than what we have now, this is just a model. Feel free to post whatever you think of it.
This required, of course, 16 new sections, which I had to create. I tried to group them more or less geographically, with some respect for traditional rivalries and conferences while trying not to overload some sections. Naturally, some are weaker than others, and there's one section that's more or less a "spare parts" section. But try not to get hung up on these; that's not the point of this thread.
Section 1: La Crescent, Winona, Rochester Mayo, Century, Lourdes, and JM, Dodge Co., Owatonna, Albert Lea, and Austin. This would have been a very weak section this year, but the Rochester schools would probably have control over it most of the time.
Section 2: Fairmont, Windom, Worthington, Luverne, Mankato East, Mankato West, LeSueur co-op, New Ulm, Sleepy Eye, Redwood Valley. Yuck, this one's awful. The scrap heap of SW Minnesota. But geographically we're pretty much stuck with this.
Section 3: Marshall, Hutchinson, Litchfield co-op, Willmar, Morris/Benson, Prairie Center, Little Falls, St. Cloud Apollo, Tech, and Cathedral. Not particularly strong either, with the St. Cloud schools and LF being at the top.
Section 4: Red Wing, Hastings, Northfield, Faribault, Waseca, Farmington, New Prague, Lakeville South and North, Prior Lake. This section has the lowest-rated top team (by PS2), but is reasonably deep with mediocrity.
Section 5: Park (CG), Simley, Burnsville, Rosemount, Eastview, Apple Valley, Woodbury, So. St. Paul, River Lakes, Henry Sibley. Here we go from a string of weak sections to one that's probably too strong. Burnsville's the class of the section, but Woodbury, EV, and Rosemount are good and AV and SSP have nice histories.
Section 6: St. Thomas Academy, Eagan, Breck, Shakopee, Chaska, Holy Family, Eden Prairie, Bloomington Jefferson and Kennedy. Three top-flight programs with a bit of a dropoff after that. A good section.
Section 7: Edina, Richfield, Holy Angels, CDH, St. Paul Academy, Minnehaha Academy, Mpls East, Blake, St. Louis Park. Essentially Edina and a pile of privates fighting for this one. The winner of this one won't be very popular throughout the state, but it is a nicely balanced section. This should also end the argument over whether section 7 is a northern section or not.
Section 8: Minnetonka, Mound-Westonka, Orono, Hopkins, Delano, Benilde, St. Michael-Albertville, Cooper, Armstrong, Providence Academy. A strong western suburban conference with several good teams at the top, and a couple of random towns west of the Cities thrown in.
Section 9: Wayzata, Buffalo, Rogers, St. Francis, Monticello, Becker-Big Lake, Elk River, Princeton, Sauk Rapids/Rice, Sartell/St. Stephen. This is the ugly one, with a hodgepodge of NW suburbs and towns, many of which don't really belong together. It's also very, very weak. I had to throw ER in here to give Wayzata some competition.
Section 10: Chisago Lakes, St. Paul Como, St. Paul Saints, Tartan, Hill-Murray, White Bear Lake, North St. Paul, Stillwater, Mahtomedi. Northeast suburban section with pretty good balance throughout. The WBL-HM postseason rivalry is very likely to continue in this section.
Section 11: Pine City, Roseville, Mounds View, Mpls West, Totino-Grace, Spring Lake Park, Centennial, North Metro, Osseo. Another section with pretty good balance.
Section 12: Maple Grove, Champlin Park, Blaine, Andover, Anoka, Mora, Forest Lake, Cambridge, North Branch. NW suburban section, though it's too bad I couldn't fit Centennial in. Some good rivalries exist/would be built here.
Section 13: Bemidji, Park Rapids, Detroit Lakes, Moorhead, Fergus Falls, Wadena/Deer Cr., Northern Lakes, Brainerd, Alexandria. Unfortunately Moorhead lacks much strong competition in its area, unless you go way north. Brainerd has the best chance of knocking off the Spuds every now and then, but this is probably the most predictable section I've created.
Section 14: Duluth East, Denfeld, Central, and Marshall, Hermantown, Proctor, Two Harbors, Cloquet, Moose Lake, Pine City. The strongest non-metro section which keeps the LSC and East-Cloquet rivalries intact. We finally get to answer the Marshall-East argument.
Section 15: Silver Bay, Ely, Virginia, Eveleth, Hibbing, I Falls, Greenway, Grand Rapids, Walker co-op. Eseentially the IRC with a few weak add-ons. Some great traditional powers; we'll see if some of them can revive past glory.
Section 16: LOW, Roseau, Warroad, Kittson Central, TRF, EGF, Red Lake Falls, Crookston, Bagley/Fosston. The Warroad-Roseau rivalry has renewed relevance. Some great small-town hockey here.
The biggest problems I see are logistical. Not would an extra round at the X be necessary, making for a very long week, but we'd also need locations for 16 section tournaments. Some are obvious, like the DECC for Section 14, but where would you hold Section 2 or 9? Would people care as much about sections anymore? This would also make for a lot more horribly uneven games, with former A weaklings meeting AA powerhouses in the first round, and probably a less competitive 1st round at State too. If we were to take the top team from each section according to PS2 and have a State Tourney, we'd get:
16 Lakeville South vs. 1 Hill-Murray (ugh...all that work for the same 1st-round matchup!)
15 Rochester Lourdes vs. 2 Edina
14 Wayzata vs. 3 STA
13 Little Falls vs. 4 Minnetonka
12 Mankato West vs. 5 Roseau
11 GR vs. 6 Centennial
10 Moorhead vs. 7 Blaine
9 Duluth East vs. 8 Burnsville
The last few would be good, but most would be blowouts.
Your thoughts on this mess?
This required, of course, 16 new sections, which I had to create. I tried to group them more or less geographically, with some respect for traditional rivalries and conferences while trying not to overload some sections. Naturally, some are weaker than others, and there's one section that's more or less a "spare parts" section. But try not to get hung up on these; that's not the point of this thread.
Section 1: La Crescent, Winona, Rochester Mayo, Century, Lourdes, and JM, Dodge Co., Owatonna, Albert Lea, and Austin. This would have been a very weak section this year, but the Rochester schools would probably have control over it most of the time.
Section 2: Fairmont, Windom, Worthington, Luverne, Mankato East, Mankato West, LeSueur co-op, New Ulm, Sleepy Eye, Redwood Valley. Yuck, this one's awful. The scrap heap of SW Minnesota. But geographically we're pretty much stuck with this.
Section 3: Marshall, Hutchinson, Litchfield co-op, Willmar, Morris/Benson, Prairie Center, Little Falls, St. Cloud Apollo, Tech, and Cathedral. Not particularly strong either, with the St. Cloud schools and LF being at the top.
Section 4: Red Wing, Hastings, Northfield, Faribault, Waseca, Farmington, New Prague, Lakeville South and North, Prior Lake. This section has the lowest-rated top team (by PS2), but is reasonably deep with mediocrity.
Section 5: Park (CG), Simley, Burnsville, Rosemount, Eastview, Apple Valley, Woodbury, So. St. Paul, River Lakes, Henry Sibley. Here we go from a string of weak sections to one that's probably too strong. Burnsville's the class of the section, but Woodbury, EV, and Rosemount are good and AV and SSP have nice histories.
Section 6: St. Thomas Academy, Eagan, Breck, Shakopee, Chaska, Holy Family, Eden Prairie, Bloomington Jefferson and Kennedy. Three top-flight programs with a bit of a dropoff after that. A good section.
Section 7: Edina, Richfield, Holy Angels, CDH, St. Paul Academy, Minnehaha Academy, Mpls East, Blake, St. Louis Park. Essentially Edina and a pile of privates fighting for this one. The winner of this one won't be very popular throughout the state, but it is a nicely balanced section. This should also end the argument over whether section 7 is a northern section or not.
Section 8: Minnetonka, Mound-Westonka, Orono, Hopkins, Delano, Benilde, St. Michael-Albertville, Cooper, Armstrong, Providence Academy. A strong western suburban conference with several good teams at the top, and a couple of random towns west of the Cities thrown in.
Section 9: Wayzata, Buffalo, Rogers, St. Francis, Monticello, Becker-Big Lake, Elk River, Princeton, Sauk Rapids/Rice, Sartell/St. Stephen. This is the ugly one, with a hodgepodge of NW suburbs and towns, many of which don't really belong together. It's also very, very weak. I had to throw ER in here to give Wayzata some competition.
Section 10: Chisago Lakes, St. Paul Como, St. Paul Saints, Tartan, Hill-Murray, White Bear Lake, North St. Paul, Stillwater, Mahtomedi. Northeast suburban section with pretty good balance throughout. The WBL-HM postseason rivalry is very likely to continue in this section.
Section 11: Pine City, Roseville, Mounds View, Mpls West, Totino-Grace, Spring Lake Park, Centennial, North Metro, Osseo. Another section with pretty good balance.
Section 12: Maple Grove, Champlin Park, Blaine, Andover, Anoka, Mora, Forest Lake, Cambridge, North Branch. NW suburban section, though it's too bad I couldn't fit Centennial in. Some good rivalries exist/would be built here.
Section 13: Bemidji, Park Rapids, Detroit Lakes, Moorhead, Fergus Falls, Wadena/Deer Cr., Northern Lakes, Brainerd, Alexandria. Unfortunately Moorhead lacks much strong competition in its area, unless you go way north. Brainerd has the best chance of knocking off the Spuds every now and then, but this is probably the most predictable section I've created.
Section 14: Duluth East, Denfeld, Central, and Marshall, Hermantown, Proctor, Two Harbors, Cloquet, Moose Lake, Pine City. The strongest non-metro section which keeps the LSC and East-Cloquet rivalries intact. We finally get to answer the Marshall-East argument.
Section 15: Silver Bay, Ely, Virginia, Eveleth, Hibbing, I Falls, Greenway, Grand Rapids, Walker co-op. Eseentially the IRC with a few weak add-ons. Some great traditional powers; we'll see if some of them can revive past glory.
Section 16: LOW, Roseau, Warroad, Kittson Central, TRF, EGF, Red Lake Falls, Crookston, Bagley/Fosston. The Warroad-Roseau rivalry has renewed relevance. Some great small-town hockey here.
The biggest problems I see are logistical. Not would an extra round at the X be necessary, making for a very long week, but we'd also need locations for 16 section tournaments. Some are obvious, like the DECC for Section 14, but where would you hold Section 2 or 9? Would people care as much about sections anymore? This would also make for a lot more horribly uneven games, with former A weaklings meeting AA powerhouses in the first round, and probably a less competitive 1st round at State too. If we were to take the top team from each section according to PS2 and have a State Tourney, we'd get:
16 Lakeville South vs. 1 Hill-Murray (ugh...all that work for the same 1st-round matchup!)
15 Rochester Lourdes vs. 2 Edina
14 Wayzata vs. 3 STA
13 Little Falls vs. 4 Minnetonka
12 Mankato West vs. 5 Roseau
11 GR vs. 6 Centennial
10 Moorhead vs. 7 Blaine
9 Duluth East vs. 8 Burnsville
The last few would be good, but most would be blowouts.
Your thoughts on this mess?
