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I have two differnt thoughts:

1) Have a sweet sixteen tourney. Format might be section finalists of any section having a crossover game see below, both winners going to State. (I will use section 7 in 2008 as an example). It would be only one State Tournament, but the quality and revenue possibilities (national TV audience for championship game) as well as the potential for improving the tournament could be significant. The semi-final games for 2008 in Section 7 would have looked like this:

Anoka vs Duluth Marshall
Hibbing vs Cloquet
Winners of both games advance to State. At that point some form of seeding.



Might be nice to have opportunity for 2 smaller teams to advance to State, maybe even force teams to play at their appropriate size only for preliminary section games (AA, A, or large and small schools rather then the AA vs A argument). Cloquet would have been a single A team instead of a AA in this format. A Duluth East, Cloquet, Grand Rapids could still play their schedule and then be seeded according to size and quality. You would have to redo the sections to insure a minimum 8 AA schools in each section. You would have to redo sections as Section 7 A would add Cloquet, Duluth East and Grand Rapids. The state high school league has not seemed to have trouble moving teams into differnt sections recently, so this might not be difficult and you probably want to have some type of balance among sections.

Format would look like this:

Wednesday:
4 games @ Mariucci
4 games @ Excel
Blind draw for who plays where.

Thursday:
4 Consolation games at Mariucci
4 Quarterfinal games at Excel

Friday:
Consolation Semi Finals @ Mariucci
Losers of winners brackets would play @ Excel @ 12:00 & 2:00
Semi-finals @ Excel @ 6:00

Saturday:
11:00 Consolation, 5th place game, and Third Place game @ Excel
7:00 State Championship

Forget idea 2, I like this one to much.

Penalty Shot wrote:I have two differnt thoughts:

1) Have a sweet sixteen tourney. Format might be section finalists of any section (I will use section 7 in 2008 as an example) and have the AA team play the A teams and two teams go to state. At that point some form of seeding. The seminfinal games for 2008 in Section 7 would have looked like this:

Anoka vs Duluth Marshall
Hibbing vs Cloquet

Winners going to state.

Might be nice to have 2 smaller teams advance to to State, maybe even force team to play at their appropriate size (AA, A, although in this format Cloquet would have been a single A team instead of a AA). You would have to redo the sections to insure a minimum 8 AA schools in each section. You may also have to redo sections as Section 7 A would add Cloquet, Duluth East and Grand Rapids. The state high school league has not seemed to have trouble moving teams into differnt sections recently, so this might not be difficult.

Format would look like this:

Wednesday:
4 games @ Mariucci
4 games @ Excel
Blind draw for who plays where.

Thursday:
4 Consolation games at Mariucci
4 Quarterfinal games at Excel

Friday:
Consolation Semi Finals @ Mariucci
Losers of winners brackets would play @ Excel @ 12:00 & 2:00
Semi-finals @ Excel @ 6:00

Saturday:
11:00 Consolation, 5th place game, and Third Place game @ Excel
7:00 State Championship

Forget idea 2, I like this one to much

Could be interesting but consolation and 5th place is the same thing...

Consolation would end up being the team that wins three in a row after losing the opening game, while "5th place would have won Wednesday lost Thursday won Friday and won Saturday. I don't know what place that team actually should receive. Maybe 4th?

I like it because it seems to let the AA vs. A argument settle itself out...

ok idea but keep it how it is

I like it.The way it is now needs change

Like it a lot.

oldbarn7 wrote:I like it because it seems to let the AA vs. A argument settle itself out...

What argument? Class A versus AA? What a joke. Just opt up if you want to play AA.

have rarely hated an idea more than this one.

hockeyhockeyhockey wrote:have rarely hated an idea more than this one.

You're not the only one.

wbmd wrote:

hockeyhockeyhockey wrote:have rarely hated an idea more than this one.

You're not the only one.

me too

pistol-

You can't say there isn't an argument between A and AA. You'd have to be blind and deaf to not be able to recognize that. It's always the people interested in or connected to A that claim their top teams are better or equal to that of the top AA teams. It's because there are teams such as STA and Marshall that claim to be the elite in the state and won't opt up for whatever reason. I agree opt up if you want to be considered "elite" or shut up.

This tournament set up makes it so that these teams such as STA and Marshall get their wish and are able to play against the AA schools when it counts and crown a single state champion.

Old barn7, I agree. If they had the AA and A tourney on seperate weekends I doubt they would have more than 4,000 people for any A session while the AA tourney would remain a premier event. Scouts and coaches would only go to the A tourney for lack of something better to do. The A tourney is only as successful as it is because they piggy back on the AA tourney. If Marshall and St. Thomas played AA last year or competed for a single State championship the whole event would be far greater then the seperate tourneys. I will give credit to the tourney as it exists as they have milked the AA tourney for all it is worth, but a single tourney giving every desrving team regardless of size a fair shot could be by far better then any thing we have seen so far!

i like the idea but that would be very hard to get it to happen. first off you would have to get the excel for another day. that would have to be a long road trip for the wild. plus by starting the tourny on wednesday would make the teams that participate in it miss more school and they would have to get more hotels rooms for more teams for more days. the teams would have to get the hotel rooms for tuesday through saturday. this would also take away the big section final games. i know that some of the section final games can to huge games.

1) The Excel is already used all day Wednesday for the single A. You would have to add Mariucci all day Wednesday though.
2) You would only be adding 8 teams to the added schedule, again single A teams now go Wednesday thru Saturday I think they play every day, quarterfinal Wed. consolation Thur., semi's Friday and Champ Sat.
3) There would still be the same amount of section games with the same number of games sending teams to State. If you used Section 7, this year instead of Hibbing vs Duluth Marshall Wednesday night you would have had Duluth Marshall vs Anoka, and instead of Cloquet vs Anoka Thursday you would have had Cloquet vs Hibbing. You could have an awesome double header but then the Section would lose revenue so maybe you keep it the same, Wednesday and Thursday

I agree very strongly with the idea of having both classes together however, why not just have one class, one tournament, eight sections. Just like it use to be. Instead of having eight or nine teams in a section, there will be about 18 teams in a section. This keeps everything relatively the same, but makes sections bigger and more exciting. Section 7AA was great this year with Cloquet, Duluth East, Grand Rapids, and Anoka; but add Duluth Marshall, Hermantown, Hibbing, Little Falls, and Cathedral and Section 7 would be even better. A Roseau-Warroad final in Section 8 would be great. The WBL-Hill section would remain relatively the same except for maybe Mahtomedi and a few other schools but that section doesn't need much tweaking; I'd put Centennial back in that section, too. STA would fit in perfectly with Cretin, Woodbury, and Rosemount and they would have a chance to prove if they can play with the big schools. Also, I feel there are multiple schools from 1A and maybe even 3A that could challenge the Lakeville and Rochester schools for the Section 1 Championship.

That would bring a lot more excitement to sections and state and we would have one undisputed state champion. Then all they would have to do is bring back WCCO to broadcast the games on TV. Since there would be no A tournament, the consolation games at Mariucci could be broadcasted as well. I think a lot of people would prefer to see those games rather then the A tournament.

I would agree to this if they removed the privates from class A, and put them in AA. Enrollment size has nothing to do with the "talent pool" these schools draw from.

Hillhockey000 wrote:I agree very strongly with the idea of having both classes together however, why not just have one class, one tournament, eight sections. Just like it use to be. Instead of having eight or nine teams in a section, there will be about 18 teams in a section. This keeps everything relatively the same, but makes sections bigger and more exciting. Section 7AA was great this year with Cloquet, Duluth East, Grand Rapids, and Anoka; but add Duluth Marshall, Hermantown, Hibbing, Little Falls, and Cathedral and Section 7 would be even better. A Roseau-Warroad final in Section 8 would be great. The WBL-Hill section would remain relatively the same except for maybe Mahtomedi and a few other schools but that section doesn't need much tweaking; I'd put Centennial back in that section, too. STA would fit in perfectly with Cretin, Woodbury, and Rosemount and they would have a chance to prove if they can play with the big schools. Also, I feel there are multiple schools from 1A and maybe even 3A that could challenge the Lakeville and Rochester schools for the Section 1 Championship.

That would bring a lot more excitement to sections and state and we would have one undisputed state champion. Then all they would have to do is bring back WCCO to broadcast the games on TV. Since there would be no A tournament, the consolation games at Mariucci could be broadcasted as well. I think a lot of people would prefer to see those games rather then the A tournament.

I think the section games are fine just they way they are. You can't tell me there wasn't any excitement in the sections this year. Also, we did have an undisputed state champion this year...HM. Unless you forgot, they beat STA (the JV Champion) twice this year.

Dream all you want (and I have) about going back to 1 class, it won't ever happen. Total attendance is up & the state tournament experience is being felt in other small communities who would not likely experience it if we were in a one class system. The MSHSL feels justified with their decision. They (the MSHSL) is not overally concerned about who is the best, but rather, giving more kids the opportunity to experience a state tournament. It'll never be the same, but they can never take away the memories.

Pioneerprideguy wrote:

Hillhockey000 wrote:I agree very strongly with the idea of having both classes together however, why not just have one class, one tournament, eight sections. Just like it use to be. Instead of having eight or nine teams in a section, there will be about 18 teams in a section. This keeps everything relatively the same, but makes sections bigger and more exciting. Section 7AA was great this year with Cloquet, Duluth East, Grand Rapids, and Anoka; but add Duluth Marshall, Hermantown, Hibbing, Little Falls, and Cathedral and Section 7 would be even better. A Roseau-Warroad final in Section 8 would be great. The WBL-Hill section would remain relatively the same except for maybe Mahtomedi and a few other schools but that section doesn't need much tweaking; I'd put Centennial back in that section, too. STA would fit in perfectly with Cretin, Woodbury, and Rosemount and they would have a chance to prove if they can play with the big schools. Also, I feel there are multiple schools from 1A and maybe even 3A that could challenge the Lakeville and Rochester schools for the Section 1 Championship.

That would bring a lot more excitement to sections and state and we would have one undisputed state champion. Then all they would have to do is bring back WCCO to broadcast the games on TV. Since there would be no A tournament, the consolation games at Mariucci could be broadcasted as well. I think a lot of people would prefer to see those games rather then the A tournament.

I think the section games are fine just they way they are. You can't tell me there wasn't any excitement in the sections this year. Also, we did have an undisputed state champion this year...HM. Unless you forgot, they beat STA (the JV Champion) twice this year.

Dream all you want (and I have) about going back to 1 class, it won't ever happen. Total attendance is up & the state tournament experience is being felt in other small communities who would not likely experience it if we were in a one class system. The MSHSL feels justified with their decision. They (the MSHSL) is not overally concerned about who is the best, but rather, giving more kids the opportunity to experience a state tournament. It'll never be the same, but they can never take away the memories.

There is the other point to remember. Hill-Murray plays AA to be in the big tournament. In the scenario above, there would be much more incentive to play an A section because it would be easier to make the same state tournament playing against schools Hill's size versus always trying to beat up on White Bear Lake, Stillwater, Roseville, etc. So in effect, you'd get 5 or 6 private teams making up the A sections and then the big schools coming through AA. That won't solve anything. Besides, we all know it isn't changing, so discussion is good, but it won't lead anywhere.

Hillhockey000 wrote:I agree very strongly with the idea of having both classes together however, why not just have one class, one tournament, eight sections. Just like it use to be. Instead of having eight or nine teams in a section, there will be about 18 teams in a section. This keeps everything relatively the same, but makes sections bigger and more exciting. Section 7AA was great this year with Cloquet, Duluth East, Grand Rapids, and Anoka; but add Duluth Marshall, Hermantown, Hibbing, Little Falls, and Cathedral and Section 7 would be even better. A Roseau-Warroad final in Section 8 would be great. The WBL-Hill section would remain relatively the same except for maybe Mahtomedi and a few other schools but that section doesn't need much tweaking; I'd put Centennial back in that section, too. STA would fit in perfectly with Cretin, Woodbury, and Rosemount and they would have a chance to prove if they can play with the big schools. Also, I feel there are multiple schools from 1A and maybe even 3A that could challenge the Lakeville and Rochester schools for the Section 1 Championship.

That would bring a lot more excitement to sections and state and we would have one undisputed state champion. Then all they would have to do is bring back WCCO to broadcast the games on TV. Since there would be no A tournament, the consolation games at Mariucci could be broadcasted as well. I think a lot of people would prefer to see those games rather then the A tournament.

I agree Hillhockey, I would also love to see a one tournament system as it once was...

Sections, or Regions as we once called them, would be even more exciting than they are today.

The only thing is that there would definitely have to be some play-in games for the seeds #18 to #9 seed (as exists in the current setup, w/ seeds 9 & 10 in some Sections), so that the #1 seed doesn't play #18 unless #18 wins a game or two to get to them.
I would hate to see a first round game between a #18 & a #1, can you say 28 - 0. Pointless game, nothing proven in the game like that...

Nice idea Dman You would have to have play in games like that.

As for Pioneerprideguy, I wasn't saying that the sections aren't exciting right now - they're great; some of the best hockey games all year. With the system I wrote about though, there would be even more exciting games.

As for Sparlimb, I don't know what you mean by saying that teams would rather play in the A sections because there wouldn't be A or AA, just one cumulative class like there used to be.

Unfortunatly, as you said, this will never happen...

I think I counted roughly 150 programs offering boys hockey in Minnesota. To make things fair we should perhaps have A, AA, AAA, AAAA, AAAAA, AAAAAA, AAAAAAA, AAAAAAAA, AAAAAAAAA, AAAAAAAAAA, AAAAAAAAAAA, AAAAAAAAAAAA, AAAAAAAAAAAAA, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (I'm getting tired) 17A, 18A, and 19A.

This would allow for every team in the state to participate in the state hockey experience. This would be awesome for the community spirit and think of all the potential attendance records that could be set.

Thoughts?

If we keep working on it, we could screw up the hockey tounament almost as bad as basketball has screwed up theirs.

I went home last night thinking I could watch the big school semis.

Nope, they were at 2:00 in the afternoon.

What a joke. BBall is all scattered. They play at Mariucci arena and at goofy times. They put the old Civic Center floor on top of the ice . It says "St Paul" on it. Really first class.

The only change I would support in the hockey tournamnet is to make it one class again and at one venue, the Xcell.

Oh I got an idea!!! I think I remember seeing on the ps2 rankings that there were 127 barsity programs in state. Get one more team and you could have a perfect 128 team bracket with exactly seven rounds. 4 teams would go to a first round site hosted by the top ranked team in that group of four. Two games would take place with one team advancing from each site. The winner would go on to a "regional" site. There would be eight regionals with four sites: Mariucci, State Fair Coliseum, Duluth, and Rochester. Two regionals would play at each site. The winner of the eight regions would play in "state" at the Xcel. It's like March Madness except with one more round.

Actually this would probably not work out very well. Teams would have to travel across state for the first round game and most would probably killed. This was mentioned above but in all due respect - who would really go to a game to see Hill play Sleepy Eye. (Two teams that would of played each other in the first round if we went by this system)

Need to be careful, don't want to screw it up for all like basketball has done.

I agree move up to AA won't have problem with tournament there will be no talk then about A vs. AA.

Plus can chat all you want MSHSL controls tournament.