HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:05 am**

Heard some discussions over the weekend that Moose is interested in moving to Class A when movement is available (after next season). I think it's the right approach. Their JV numbers were thin this past year & Moose was involved in their bantams which had a decent year. Moving into their new conference will help with scheduling and give the kids a chance to play for a conference title & moving down to Class A would give the kids a chance to win a section title & return to downtown St. Paul.

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:14 pm**

Johnson is too large of a school to play in class A. I just checked the MSHSL website and their enrollment is listed as 1186.

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:21 pm**

pioneers wrote:Johnson is too large of a school to play in class A. I just checked the MSHSL website and their enrollment is listed as 1186.

The maximum Class A enrollment is 1359 so they're eligible for A... unfortunately.

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:22 pm**

Yes I did a little further research and I stand corrected. They would fall into the Class A school size. However being that it is a Co-op, do they include Harding enrollment also?

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:34 pm**

I believe they would have to include Harding since they are a Co-op just like Como has to claim Central and Highland for the time being. I am sure any Co-op has to include the population of all schools involved.

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:45 pm**

pioneers wrote:Yes I did a little further research and I stand corrected. They would fall into the Class A school size. However being that it is a Co-op, do they include Harding enrollment also?

It should include Harding, Humbolt, and Johnson coop 1157
total enrollment of the 3 is 3255 by last years #'s may be other circumstances though??

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:57 pm**

As usual the MSHSL site is unclear on how the coop works. It just says that coops may affect the enrollment figures, but does not explain it.

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:05 pm**

pioneers wrote:As usual the MSHSL site is unclear on how the coop works. It just says that coops may affect the enrollment figures, but does not explain it.

At the bottom it said this

" Enrollment Adjustments:
When reviewing your school’s enrollment on our web site you are reminded that your enrollment for a particular activity may differ due to one or more of the following enrollment adjustments:

* Cooperative sponsorship between two or more schools.
* Cooperative sponsorship between two or more Class A schools in lifelong activities where one of the school’s enrollment is fewer than 150 students.
* Cooperative sponsorship between two or more Class A schools in non-lifelong activities."

Not sure if you saw that.

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:19 pm**

I did Doesn't really explain a whole lot though

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:21 pm**

pioneers wrote:I did Doesn't really explain a whole lot though

Yeah but that would eliminate the gray area they need to operate in !

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:32 pm**

Maybe they are thinking about going solo, dropping out of the coop, therefore becoming eligible for Class A (?)

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:11 pm**

MNHockeyFan wrote:Maybe they are thinking about going solo, dropping out of the coop, therefore becoming eligible for Class A (?)

i have talked to some of the current players and that is what they think will happen

Posted: **Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:38 am**

Gray areas in MSHSL rules???? I can't believe that would ever happen

Posted: **Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:44 am**

mch wrote:
MNHockeyFan wrote:Maybe they are thinking about going solo, dropping out of the coop, therefore becoming eligible for Class A (?)
i have talked to some of the current players and that is what they think will happen

I don't believe that's Johnson's call to make - I'd have to think it's the St. Paul School district's.

Posted: **Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:59 am**

The thing people need to realize is that the coop was placed on Johnson by the school board. The facts are going into next year Johnson will have 1 goalie from Humbolt and the rest are Johnson players. It does not make a lot of sense to take on those enrollments when you receive 1 player.

Posted: **Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:15 am**

The Truth wrote:The thing people need to realize is that the coop was placed on Johnson by the school board. The facts are going into next year Johnson will have 1 goalie from Humbolt and the rest are Johnson players. It does not make a lot of sense to take on those enrollments when you receive 1 player.

The school board has an obligation (I'm not sure it's a legal obligation or not - certainly ethical if nothing else) to keep things balanced for all students in the district. For example, Central has the "gifted and talented" academic program in the St. Paul Schools. If a kid wants to go into that program and still play hockey, the district should have to make that available to him, despite the fact Central doesn't have a team. The school board won't look at it from a "what's good for hockey" standpoint, they're going to look at it from a "what's good for the kids and won't get us sued" standpoint.

So whether it's Jesse Day, or Joe Rubbelke, or whoever, the kids should have the opportunity to play hockey (or whatever sport) at whatever school. The fact of the matter is that Johnson has technically been a co-op going back to at least when I was there. the St. Paul Open School was co-oped with us at the time. I don't know if they still are or not (MSHSL says no), but if they are, just adding that enrollment is pushing the AA boundary.

Posted: **Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:35 am**

You are right that kids should have an oppurtunity to play hockey if there school does not have a program. The problem is attaching the enrollment of a whole school for the services of 1 or 2 kids. People don't understand the differences between A and AA. In most cases if you have two strong lines you can compete at the A level. Once you move into AA and have to play teams that can sometimes throw 4 lines over the boards. It is just hard to compete with that. I don't have time to look up the enrollments of Johnson, Harding and Humbolt together but I would bet that between the three the total enrollment would be around 3000. With 3000 kids guess how many were in the high school program at Johnson. The answer is 29.

Posted: **Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:08 am**

I would have to imagine that based on schools have budget short falls, Like Brainerd? That schools in a Co-Op would and could option out? Wouldn’t you think so?

Below is from the Bemidji stepping down forums. On who is on the bubble?
St Paul Johnson is right there by size on it own, but due to Co-Op is a "AA".

Based on the school enrollment below from the MN State High School League.

Alexandria and then Bemidji would be the next two “AA” schools EXCEPT Co-op’s or schools option ups?

Fictitiously, If Roseau would decide to play single “A”, then Alexandria would move up and Bemidji would be on the bubble or does it only happen every two years?

School ------------------------ Enrollment
Buffalo High School---- 8AA --------------------1596
Owatonna High School --- 1AA------------------1528
Moorhead High School ---8AA -------------------1527
Bloomington Kennedy High School---2AA ------1483
Irondale High School---5AA ----------------------1469
Saint Cloud Tech High School---8AA--------------1462
Saint Paul Harding High School--- (???)-----------1458
Minneapolis Southwest High School---(???)------1453
Farmington High School---1AA--------------------1436
Shakopee High School---- --2AA --------------- 1435
Henry Sibley High School --- 3AA -----------------1413
Cambridge-Isanti High School ---7AA------------1403
Rochester John Marshall ---- 1AA -----------------1366
Cretin-Derham Hall High School ----- 3AA--------1319
Alexandria High School-------6A-------------1278
Bemidji High School ----- 8A----------------------1255
Saint Louis Park High School----- 2A--------------1246
Winona High School -----1AA----------------------1226
Northfield High School ---- 1A-----------------------1223
Duluth East High School----- 7AA------------------1222
Richfield High School ----- 2A---- ------------------1218
Saint Paul Johnson High School ------ 4AA---------1186

Posted: **Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:21 am**

The Truth wrote:You are right that kids should have an oppurtunity to play hockey if there school does not have a program. The problem is attaching the enrollment of a whole school for the services of 1 or 2 kids.

I don't necessarily disagree, but what's an equitable way to determine it otherwise? There are a good number of co-ops out there that have a healthy cross section of kids from multiple schools - how do you differentiate a program like that from a program like Johnson where only 1 or maybe 2 kids (if that) from another school play? It's tough.

The fact that it's even been brought up with Johnson (and being that it's coming from PPG, I'm taking this all with a grain of salt - I haven't heard any of this, although I'm not close to the program anymore either) is a disappointment to me though. It's following the trend over the last 15-20 years that is "coddling" (IMO) the city kids, and not really giving them any incentive to try and excel. Maintain an average performance long enough, and we'll throw HM and CDH out of the conference, then drop you down to Class A. What's that teaching them? There are still talented football, basketball, and hockey players over there, but if you start lowering expectations, it's sending the wrong message.

I was hoping that the move to the Tri-Metro would start getting the program back on track by competing with some very good schools on a regular basis (albeit Class A schools), but if this is the case, I almost think that we're taking one step forward and two steps back.

Posted: **Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:40 pm**

Govs93 wrote:
The Truth wrote:You are right that kids should have an oppurtunity to play hockey if there school does not have a program. The problem is attaching the enrollment of a whole school for the services of 1 or 2 kids.
I don't necessarily disagree, but what's an equitable way to determine it otherwise? There are a good number of co-ops out there that have a healthy cross section of kids from multiple schools - how do you differentiate a program like that from a program like Johnson where only 1 or maybe 2 kids (if that) from another school play? It's tough.

The fact that it's even been brought up with Johnson (and being that it's coming from PPG, I'm taking this all with a grain of salt - I haven't heard any of this, although I'm not close to the program anymore either) is a disappointment to me though. It's following the trend over the last 15-20 years that is "coddling" (IMO) the city kids, and not really giving them any incentive to try and excel. Maintain an average performance long enough, and we'll throw HM and CDH out of the conference, then drop you down to Class A. What's that teaching them? There are still talented football, basketball, and hockey players over there, but if you start lowering expectations, it's sending the wrong message.

I was hoping that the move to the Tri-Metro would start getting the program back on track by competing with some very good schools on a regular basis (albeit Class A schools), but if this is the case, I almost think that we're taking one step forward and two steps back.

I feel the same way Govs, my Rogers boys may end up back in single A because of their coop's ending this year, they will be a stand alone school and have est. 996 students.
I was very happy to see them playing AA, even if they couldn't beat the bigger schools they played in the last two seasons, I still felt it was better all around for the program. I hope they stay AA

They got kicked up to AA 2 yrs ago because of 1 player from a private school that petitioned a coop, and he ended up transferring to Rogers anyway?? and even last year only had limited Varsity playing time.

In hind sight I'm glad because they got to play AA

Posted: **Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:06 pm**

Come on fellas.

All the cool guys are in A.

Posted: **Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:18 pm**

Irishmans Shanty wrote:Come on fellas.

All the cool guys are in A.

I thought Aaron Ness played AA.

Posted: **Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:22 pm**

Govs93 wrote:
Irishmans Shanty wrote:Come on fellas.

All the cool guys are in A.
I thought Aaron Ness played AA.

He said cool...not super cool!

Posted: **Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:31 pm**

elliott70 expresses his thoughts
about his move up to Class A
last season.

Posted: **Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:40 pm**

Irishmans Shanty wrote:
elliott70 expresses his thoughts
about his move up to Class A
last season.

Correction:

HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Johnson Moving to Class A?

Johnson Moving to Class A?